Mormon stake closed in Aussie land

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Re: Mormon stake closed in Aussie land

Post by bcspace »

The PR spin is predictable in the news release created for the sheeple.


How do we know the MormonCurtain is not spin?
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Re: Mormon stake closed in Aussie land

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We should not be misreading the statistics. It makes very little difference if a stake is closed. At times it just makes perfect sense to do so. It doesn't exactly mean a decline in church membership but rather people moving out and moving somewhere else. Or there could be not enough conversions to sustain the need for a stake.

But like I said on the catholic thread, some people celebrate any preconceived misfortune of the LDS church. And this thread proves my point.
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Re: Mormon stake closed in Aussie land

Post by Yoda »

Quasimodo wrote:
liz3564 wrote:(Moderator Note) Moved from Telestial.


Just curious, Liz. Why the move? I've been looking for something spicy in a post, but can't find it. :)

The thread was originally posted by the thread starter in Telestial. I'm not exactly sure why. I moved it to Terrestrial when this was pointed out to me so that more folks could participate.

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Re: Mormon stake closed in Aussie land

Post by Infymus »

Actual link to article by Simon Southerton:

http://mormoncurtain.com/topic_mormonme ... _705296185

The Parramatta Australia Stake was closed a couple of weeks ago. This is the first stake closure in Australia. My father was in the inaugural stake presidency and we were members of the stake for most of my early years in the church.

http://www.LDS.org.au/index.php/news/...

The PR spin is predictable in the news release created for the sheeple. There is no mention of a stake closure. The news appears in an article headed "New Local Leadership for Sydney Saints". Even this heading is inaccurate because the new stake president has been a stake president several times before. They are clearly running out of talented leadership.

The real news of the stake closure is quite accurately portrayed on the LDS Church "Growth" website.

http://ldschurchgrowth.blogspot.com/

Stake discontinued in Australia

"For the first time in LDS Church history in Australia, a stake was discontinued. The Sydney Australia Parramatta Stake was consolidated into several neighboring stakes in the Sydney area. The number of congregations in many Australian stakes is much lower than other nations, which jeopardizes the continued operation of some stakes if large numbers of members move away and few new converts are baptized and retained. Overall Australia has experienced moderate membership growth rates among industrialized nations but has experienced stagnant congregational growth."

If it wasn't for the dramatic increase in Polynesian membership in the church in Sydney due to immigration from New Zealand, Samoa and Tonga, the church would be in very serious decline.

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Re: Mormon stake closed in Aussie land

Post by harmony »

I don't think a random combining of stakes has any more meaning in the grand scheme of things than a splitting of a stake. People move around; people die; people find other things to do with their lives than be a member of the LDS church.

Any institution is going to put the best spin on any action taken by that institution, even if the action could be construed to be negative. That's just common sense.
(Nevo, Jan 23) And the Melchizedek Priesthood may not have been restored until the summer of 1830, several months after the organization of the Church.

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Re: Mormon stake closed in Aussie land

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why me wrote:We should not be misreading the statistics. It makes very little difference if a stake is closed. At times it just makes perfect sense to do so. It doesn't exactly mean a decline in church membership but rather people moving out and moving somewhere else. Or there could be not enough conversions to sustain the need for a stake.


Certainly stakes can close for reasons of movement of members to other areas, but they also close due to falling numbers of members or active members. This seems to be the case in Australia. It's not really a secret that the church is not doing well in most industrialized countries, and in some the church's numbers are falling. I would say some of the mission closures are based on convert numbers. The church as I understand is moving more missionaries into higher baptizing areas which is in underdeveloped ares of the world.

But like I said on the catholic thread, some people celebrate any preconceived misfortune of the LDS church. And this thread proves my point.


And some like yourself see a need to defend the church on every issue.
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Re: Mormon stake closed in Aussie land

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And some like yourself see a need to defend the church on every issue.


Some antiMormons feel they must find some issue about the Church to be negative on without opposition. It must be depressing for an antiMormon to lose the debate about the LDS Church on every issue they come up with.
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Re: Mormon stake closed in Aussie land

Post by Wisdom Seeker »

bcspace wrote:
And some like yourself see a need to defend the church on every issue.


Some antiMormons feel they must find some issue about the Church to be negative on without opposition. It must be depressing for an antiMormon to lose the debate about the LDS Church on every issue they come up with.


Such a pitiful bunch!

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Re: Mormon stake closed in Aussie land

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I think we all know who I am talking about.

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Re: Mormon stake closed in Aussie land

Post by Baker »

malkie wrote:I think that was around the time I started to be less active. IIRC, the Stake Pres was Terry Harrison.

If there is a heaven, and Terry Harrison is not there (after he dies, of course), then the entrance qualifications need to be reviewed & revised.


So true.
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Re: Mormon stake closed in Aussie land

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Any institution is going to put the best spin on any action taken by that institution, even if the action could be construed to be negative. That's just common sense.


Yes. And those who oppose said institution are going to see victory wherever they can even if it might be, as you imply, an error in correlation.
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Re: Mormon stake closed in Aussie land

Post by why me »

Infymus wrote:Actual link to article by Simon Southerton:



My gosh, I forgot about Simon. I remember his rise to antimormon king. Everywhere on the antimormon circuit he was being lauded. His DNA article had antimormons cheering and doing hand stands. The postmormons were going ape crap over him.

But...then he faded from view and his DNA theory fell flat. Now he is back cheering news that he translates as being negative about the LDS church. What a poor guy.
I intend to lay a foundation that will revolutionize the whole world.
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We are “to feed the hungry, to clothe the naked, to provide for the widow, to dry up the tear of the orphan, to comfort the afflicted, whether in this church, or in any other, or in no church at all…”
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Re: Mormon stake closed in Aussie land

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why me wrote:his DNA theory fell flat.


The rational world must have missed the memo on that one. There must be a global anti-Mormon conspiracy among scientists to suppress all that DNA linking Pacific Islanders and Native Americans throughout North, Central, and South America to the "Lamanites" of the Book of Mormon.
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Re: Mormon stake closed in Aussie land

Post by Themis »

bcspace wrote:Some antiMormons feel they must find some issue about the Church to be negative on without opposition.


Sure just like some apologists.

It must be depressing for an antiMormon to lose the debate about the LDS Church on every issue they come up with.


I suppose they might be except for the fact that what you say is clearly not true, but then I don't know any anti-Mormons except maybe Ed Decker.
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Re: Mormon stake closed in Aussie land

Post by Joseph »

How did the DNA theory fall flat? From what I read it showed no jewish roots or links among all the American Natives tested.

How is that 'falling flat'?
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infaymos wrote: "Peterson is the defacto king ping of the Mormon Apologetic world."

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Re: Mormon stake closed in Aussie land

Post by Themis »

why me wrote:
My gosh, I forgot about Simon. I remember his rise to antimormon king.


I was never aware that he was an anti-Mormon.

But...then he faded from view and his DNA theory fell flat.


Keep telling yourself that. He has yet to be shown wrong. No DNA evidence is yet shown any middle eastern group showing up in the America anciently.

Now he is back cheering news that he translates as being negative about the LDS church. What a poor guy.


My understanding is that he has always been around. I think like many he likes staying low key.
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Re: Mormon stake closed in Aussie land

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When the DNA issue came on the scene and he was heralding his article about the book of Mormon and DNA, he went on a traveling show giving talks on the subject, seeming to hope that Mormons would leave their faith. And a few did. But now the issue has died. Is that being antimormon?
I intend to lay a foundation that will revolutionize the whole world.
Joseph Smith


We are “to feed the hungry, to clothe the naked, to provide for the widow, to dry up the tear of the orphan, to comfort the afflicted, whether in this church, or in any other, or in no church at all…”
Joseph Smith

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Re: Mormon stake closed in Aussie land

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why me wrote:When the DNA issue came on the scene and he was heralding his article about the book of Mormon and DNA, he went on a traveling show giving talks on the subject, seeming to hope that Mormons would leave their faith. And a few did. But now the issue has died. Is that being antimormon?


Pretty hard to do regular talks on the subject when I live in Australia. If I had kept banging away at the issue you would accuse me of leaving the church but not being able to leave it alone. You can't win can you?

The church changed the introduction to the Book of Mormon and we now have Mormon apologists admitting that no Israelite DNA has been found. We also have Mormon apologists distorting the DNA evidence to support a North American geography (Meldrum). The issue might have died in your own consciousness but not for many others.
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Re: Mormon stake closed in Aussie land

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Simon Southerton wrote:Pretty hard to do regular talks on the subject when I live in Australia. If I had kept banging away at the issue you would accuse me of leaving the church but not being able to leave it alone. You can't win can you?

The church changed the introduction to the Book of Mormon and we now have Mormon apologists admitting that no Israelite DNA has been found. We also have Mormon apologists distorting the DNA evidence to support a North American geography (Meldrum). The issue might have died in your own consciousness but not for many others.


If I remember correctly you were in Utah giving presentations about the issue. The DNA controversy did have an initial impact but I haven't heard anything new about the DNA issue. It faded into the horizon. And it is no longer mentioned here or in very many other places on the web.

Here is the thing: would Australia be better off without the LDS church? Probably not. So why offer a celebration if membership is declining?
I intend to lay a foundation that will revolutionize the whole world.
Joseph Smith


We are “to feed the hungry, to clothe the naked, to provide for the widow, to dry up the tear of the orphan, to comfort the afflicted, whether in this church, or in any other, or in no church at all…”
Joseph Smith

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Re: Mormon stake closed in Aussie land

Post by Joseph »

So, are Australian Aborigines Lamanites?
"This is how INGORNAT these fools are!" - darricktevenson

Bow your head and mutter, what in hell am I doing here?

infaymos wrote: "Peterson is the defacto king ping of the Mormon Apologetic world."

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Re: Mormon stake closed in Aussie land

Post by Inconceivable »

Simon Southerton wrote:
why me wrote:When the DNA issue came on the scene and he was heralding his article about the book of Mormon and DNA, he went on a traveling show giving talks on the subject, seeming to hope that Mormons would leave their faith. And a few did. But now the issue has died. Is that being antimormon?


Pretty hard to do regular talks on the subject when I live in Australia. If I had kept banging away at the issue you would accuse me of leaving the church but not being able to leave it alone. You can't win can you?

The church changed the introduction to the Book of Mormon and we now have Mormon apologists admitting that no Israelite DNA has been found. We also have Mormon apologists distorting the DNA evidence to support a North American geography (Meldrum). The issue might have died in your own consciousness but not for many others.

Hi Simon,

Thank you for your perspective and contributions over the years.

On a side note, if most people knew how overbearing we were required to be as missionaries in Victoria, they would be impressed at the difference in how you have respectfully presented your findings to the church (and to the world).

I think that no matter how civil we are in telling the truth, some will see it as a shrill and violent attack. What they don't understand is that it is the truth that is doing the hurting, not the messenger.

kind regards,

inc.

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