Liahona Irreantum Rabbanah deseret

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_Mittens
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Re: Liahona Irreantum Rabbanah deseret

Post by _Mittens »

son of Ishmael wrote:
Mittens wrote:.



Mittens,

I totally agree, the Book of Mormon is a book of fantasy. Now why don't you spend some time putting the Bible under the same microscope and see if you don't find another book of fantasy.


The Bible came down from us directly from God and protected by God so it is non-fiction Is God base while Book of Mormon is man based and fiction
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_The Erotic Apologist
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Re: Liahona Irreantum Rabbanah deseret

Post by _The Erotic Apologist »

Mittens wrote:The Bible came down from us directly from God and protected by God so it is non-fiction Is God base while Book of Mormon is man based and fiction

You're saying you know the Bible came from god because it's written in the Bible?
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_subgenius
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Re: Liahona Irreantum Rabbanah deseret

Post by _subgenius »

The Erotic Apologist wrote:
Mittens wrote:The Bible came down from us directly from God and protected by God so it is non-fiction Is God base while Book of Mormon is man based and fiction

You're saying you know the Bible came from god because it's written in the Bible?

i would suggest walking away from this EA....otherwise, do enjoy your journey into Mittens-Land :biggrin:

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_Res Ipsa
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Re: Liahona Irreantum Rabbanah deseret

Post by _Res Ipsa »

The Erotic Apologist wrote:
Mittens wrote:The Bible came down from us directly from God and protected by God so it is non-fiction Is God base while Book of Mormon is man based and fiction

You're saying you know the Bible came from god because it's written in the Bible?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kr1I3mBojc0
​“The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated communist, but people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists.”

― Hannah Arendt, The Origins of Totalitarianism, 1951
_son of Ishmael
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Re: Liahona Irreantum Rabbanah deseret

Post by _son of Ishmael »

Mittens wrote:
[b]The Bible came down from us directly from God and protected by God so it is non-fiction Is God base while Book of Mormon is man based and fiction



OK how about this:

"The Koran came down from us directly from God and protected by God so it is non-fiction Is God base while the Bible is man based and fiction"


or:

"Mad magazine came down from us directly from God and protected by God so it is non-fiction Is God base while the Bible is man based and fiction"
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_jo1952
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Re: Liahona Irreantum Rabbanah deseret

Post by _jo1952 »

Mittens wrote:
The Bible came down from us directly from God and protected by God so it is non-fiction Is God base.....


Prove it.

Blessings,

jo
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Re: Liahona Irreantum Rabbanah deseret

Post by _jo1952 »

Mittens wrote:
The Bible came down from us directly from God and protected by God so it is non-fiction Is God base.....


Actually, this is the same claim Muslims make about the Quran. They believe the Quran was given directly by God (a.k.a. Allah); and God in the Quran is the same God for all of humanity --- not just for the Muslims. Muslims pretty much make the same claims about the Quran that Christians make about the Bible.

Blessings,

jo
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Re: Liahona Irreantum Rabbanah deseret

Post by _Robert F Smith »

Mittens (BrianH)
Dr. Grant Palmer (PhD, BYU - American History), a 34-year veteran of the Mormon Church's official Church Education System has abandoned his former faith in Joseph Smith, the LDS Church and the Mormon religion as a result of his study into the true origins of his former religion. His most notable work is a book entitled, "An Insider's View of Mormon Origins", in which Dr. Palmer traces the sources Joseph Smith used to write the Book of Mormon and the Book of Abraham, etc.

Dr. Palmer has also produced a variety of articles on the same topics. One of the items I found interesting recently come from this LINK. In the article entitled, "Has an actual Book of Mormon location been found - Nahom?" Dr. Palmer points out some interesting linguistic problems in the Book of Mormon. The fact is, the Book of Mormon's unique transliterated terms and place-names have no valid etymology - no history of use in any known language.


First off, Mr. Grant H. Palmer (a.k.a. “Paul Pry”) has no PhD, not from BYU or any other institution. He has no training or experience in linguistics, and knows no biblical or ancient Near Eastern languages relevant to the discussion of etymologies for Book of Mormon words of foreign origin. His book, An Insider's View of Mormon Origins (Signature Books, 2002), is a poorly reasoned and poorly written hit piece, early parts of which I saw being circulated under his pseudonym back in the 1980s (see FARMS Review, 15/2 [2003], online at http://maxwellinstitute.byu.edu/publications/review/?vol=15&num=2 ). He would not know a proper etymology if he saw one, and is clearly not familiar with the academic literature on the subject

The short list presented to us above by you [BrianH “Mittens”] is well familiar from your http://forums.carm.org/vbb/showthread.php?125557-BoM-Place-Names-Have-No-Valid-Etymology , but the list actually originated with scholars publishing with FARMS. A responsible and honest approach to the etymological questions would be to engage the proposals which have long since been made, showing in what ways you believe them to be “invalid.”

In fact, most of the words you mention have reasonable ancient Near Eastern etymologies, e.g.,

IRREANTUM, “Many Waters,” has several possible etymologies (as is the case for many biblical names), but I personally favor comparing the name of the greatest river in Syria, the Orontes (Greek), which the Neo-Assyrians called IDA-ra-ante (the ID superscript identifies rivers), Egyptian ’Irnt, and the Medo-Persians Haeravanta, Auruuant, Arwand “rich, splendid, heroic.” Written in Egyptian with the water determinative at the end, it might have seemed quite appropriate to the Lehites.

RABBANAH, “‘powerful’ or ‘great king’” (Alma 18:13), clearly comes from Hebrew rāb “great, magnate” and rabbâ “heavy, much,” and in late Jewish antiquity the Aramaic form of the root, rabbana, was used for the ruler of the Diaspora (exilarch) and for the heads of the great talmudic academies. However, note much earlier Assyro-Babylonian rabbani, rabbānû “chieftan,” written syllabically by those scribes in Sumerian cuneiform as LÚ.GAL “king.”

RAMEUMPTOM is a combination of two Hebrew words, *rame-ʿomdam "Their-high-standing-place," combined to mean exactly what the Book of Mormon text says at Alma 31:13,21,23: “Holy-Stand; a place of standing which was high above the head." Note that it is a holy or high place of standing for Zoramites. Note further that the prayer recited by the Zoramites while on that stand is a dead ringer for an early form of the most important prayer in Judaism, the ʿAmida (the prayer said while “standing”).

LIAHONA (only in Alma 37:38) is described as a fine brass “ball” with two spindles (1 Nephi 16:10), a “compass” (1 Nephi 18:12, Alma 37:38), and a “ball or director” (Mosiah 1:16, Alma 37:38), which appeared suddenly outside Lehi’s tent and showed what course to go in the Old World trek into south Arabia. Several proposals have been made, but I personally favor use of the Hebrew verb hānā “to pitch (tent), encamp, dwell” (cognate with ancient Egyptian hn “tent”), namely one “encamps” (Psalm 34:8 [KJV 34:7] “the angel of the Lord encamps around those who fear him, and delivers them”), a word used frequently throughout Exodus and Numbers as the Israelites travel from location to location. Those who realize that the Lehites reenact that Israelite Exodus sequence, will see that lia-hona may mean “encamped for the Lord (Yah).”

This is only a small sampling, and there are many words and names from the Book of Mormon onomasticon which are very well based. Simply search the Maxwell Institute website at http://maxwellinstitute.byu.edu for the specific word of interest.
_Mittens
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Re: Liahona Irreantum Rabbanah deseret

Post by _Mittens »

http://www.mormonhandbook.com/home/thom ... guson.html

Thomas Stuart Ferguson was the big deal in the 1970s when I first investigated Mormonism
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_Tobin
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Re: Liahona Irreantum Rabbanah deseret

Post by _Tobin »

Mittens wrote:http://www.mormonhandbook.com/home/thomas-stuart-ferguson.html

Thomas Stuart Ferguson was the big deal in the 1970s when I first investigated Mormonism


Ah Mittens, are you ever going to respond to your critics and stop posting up non-sense like the stuff above?

1) The Book of Mormon is a scriptural book, not historical. Finding archeological evidence of where it took place requires that we know where to look in the first place!

2) The Book of Abraham, as I have often discussed, is not a translation of the corrupt Egyptian papyrus. It is the restoration of the orginal writings of Abraham.

3) The REASON Ferguson lost his faith is he went about it in all the wrong ways. The Book of Mormon asks us to seek God and speak with God face-to-face. That is how we know Joseph Smith told the truth. We don't believe Joseph Smith because of what he claimed. Of course it could be a fraud (and an obvious one at that). We believe him because God tells us to.
"You lack vision, but I see a place where people get on and off the freeway. On and off, off and on all day, all night.... Tire salons, automobile dealerships and wonderful, wonderful billboards reaching as far as the eye can see. My God, it'll be beautiful." -- Judge Doom
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