Does Thomas S Monson tell lies...?

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stemelbow
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Re: Does Thomas S Monson tell lies...?

Post by stemelbow »

I'm having trouble seeing what the fuss here is. The skeptical mind will see anything he/she wishes. It appears the best that can be said is Monson mixed up the actual time of his death, as much as anything, the age of his enlistment. It seems like it was all from his memory, aside from after hearing from his mother correcting the death thing.

The poor kid died when he was 18. And the poor mother took it hard as one would expect. Its an interesting story that I would like to hear more about. I don't know if this amounts to anything as people here are trying to paint it though--monson lies, or fabricates or inserts himself into everyone's story or whatever. Its too bad some are so persuaded to attack the guy they have to think he told lies. Hate to see you guys go after me like this. Oh wait...
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Stem


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jon
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Re: Does Thomas S Monson tell lies...?

Post by jon »

stemelbow wrote:I'm having trouble seeing what the fuss here is. The skeptical mind will see anything he/she wishes. It appears the best that can be said is Monson mixed up the actual time of his death, as much as anything, the age of his enlistment. It seems like it was all from his memory, aside from after hearing from his mother correcting the death thing.

The poor kid died when he was 18. And the poor mother took it hard as one would expect. Its an interesting story that I would like to hear more about. I don't know if this amounts to anything as people here are trying to paint it though--monson lies, or fabricates or inserts himself into everyone's story or whatever. Its too bad some are so persuaded to attack the guy they have to think he told lies. Hate to see you guys go after me like this. Oh wait...


Stem, would your view change if it becomes clear that Arthur Patton did not die in WWII?
'Church pictures are not always accurate' (The Nehor May 4th 2011)

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stemelbow
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Re: Does Thomas S Monson tell lies...?

Post by stemelbow »

jon wrote:Stem, would your view change if it becomes clear that Arthur Patton did not die in WWII?


I don't even know how one could show that considering the story already told. Are you saying Monson fabricated the letter from his mother? Man, I'm sorry but you guys sure go to extremes when it comes to LDS. Do you really think Monson just made this all up in front of everyone?
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jon
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Re: Does Thomas S Monson tell lies...?

Post by jon »

stemelbow wrote:
jon wrote:Stem, would your view change if it becomes clear that Arthur Patton did not die in WWII?


I don't even know how one could show that considering the story already told. Are you saying Monson fabricated the letter from his mother? Man, I'm sorry but you guys sure go to extremes when it comes to LDS. Do you really think Monson just made this all up in front of everyone?


Stem, would your view change if it became clear that Arthur Patton didn't die in WWII?
'Church pictures are not always accurate' (The Nehor May 4th 2011)

Morality is doing what is right, regardless of what you are told.
Religion is doing what you are told, regardless of what is right.

stemelbow
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Re: Does Thomas S Monson tell lies...?

Post by stemelbow »

jon wrote:Stem, would your view change if it became clear that Arthur Patton didn't die in WWII?


Another hypothetical? I don't care. I'm sure tons of Arthur Patton's have died outside of WWII. Tons of historical records could have been tampered with too. What the garbage to I care? I'm not out hearing people's story they tell me then running off to see if their anecdotal experience holds any merit or not. I just don't think of people or treat people that way.

But again, I don't know regarding your hypothetical...again. Who really does?
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Stem


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Buffalo
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Re: Does Thomas S Monson tell lies...?

Post by Buffalo »

stemelbow wrote:
jon wrote:Stem, would your view change if it becomes clear that Arthur Patton did not die in WWII?


I don't even know how one could show that considering the story already told. Are you saying Monson fabricated the letter from his mother? Man, I'm sorry but you guys sure go to extremes when it comes to LDS. Do you really think Monson just made this all up in front of everyone?


It's possible. Monson tells a lot of stories that sound like tall tales, or at least highly exaggerated. I'm reserving judgment on this until more information comes in.
Parley P. Pratt wrote:We must lie to support brother Joseph, it is our duty to do so.

B.R. McConkie, © Intellectual Reserve wrote:There are those who say that revealed religion and organic evolution can be harmonized. This is both false and devilish.

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subgenius
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Re: Does Thomas S Monson tell lies...?

Post by subgenius »

Buffalo wrote:.... I'm reserving judgment......

Image
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subgenius
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Re: Does Thomas S Monson tell lies...?

Post by subgenius »

jon wrote:Sub, If Arthur Patton didn't die in WWII would that have any impact on your opinion of Thomas S Monson.

not at all.
if Arthur Patton DID, would your opinion change?
Seek freedom and become captive of your desires...seek discipline and find your liberty
I can tell if a person is judgmental just by looking at them
what is chaos to the fly is normal to the spider - morticia addams
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Buffalo
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Re: Does Thomas S Monson tell lies...?

Post by Buffalo »

subgenius wrote:
Buffalo wrote:.... I'm reserving judgment......

Image


Image
Parley P. Pratt wrote:We must lie to support brother Joseph, it is our duty to do so.

B.R. McConkie, © Intellectual Reserve wrote:There are those who say that revealed religion and organic evolution can be harmonized. This is both false and devilish.

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Morley
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Re: Does Thomas S Monson tell lies...?

Post by Morley »

subgenius wrote:
jon wrote:Sub, If Arthur Patton didn't die in WWII would that have any impact on your opinion of Thomas S Monson.

not at all.
if Arthur Patton DID, would your opinion change?


Yep.

stemelbow
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Re: Does Thomas S Monson tell lies...?

Post by stemelbow »

Buffalo wrote:It's possible. Monson tells a lot of stories that sound like tall tales, or at least highly exaggerated. I'm reserving judgment on this until more information comes in.


all right. I still say it'd save you guys a lot of angst if ya didn't bother with it at all.
Love ya tons,
Stem


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Morley
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Re: Does Thomas S Monson tell lies...?

Post by Morley »

stemelbow wrote:
Buffalo wrote:It's possible. Monson tells a lot of stories that sound like tall tales, or at least highly exaggerated. I'm reserving judgment on this until more information comes in.


all right. I still say it'd save you guys a lot of angst if ya didn't bother with it at all.


I think you're projecting. I don't think many here are feeling any angst. Just curiosity.

stemelbow
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Re: Does Thomas S Monson tell lies...?

Post by stemelbow »

Morley wrote:Yep.


Doesn't saying "yep" to this question already expose you as one who already assumes Monson has fabricated the story? Ah well...if your view changes based on this, that's something.
Love ya tons,
Stem


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Buffalo
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Re: Does Thomas S Monson tell lies...?

Post by Buffalo »

stemelbow wrote:
Buffalo wrote:It's possible. Monson tells a lot of stories that sound like tall tales, or at least highly exaggerated. I'm reserving judgment on this until more information comes in.


all right. I still say it'd save you guys a lot of angst if ya didn't bother with it at all.


I'm angst-free, Stem. How about you?
Parley P. Pratt wrote:We must lie to support brother Joseph, it is our duty to do so.

B.R. McConkie, © Intellectual Reserve wrote:There are those who say that revealed religion and organic evolution can be harmonized. This is both false and devilish.

stemelbow
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Re: Does Thomas S Monson tell lies...?

Post by stemelbow »

Morley wrote:I think you're projecting. I don't think many here are feeling any angst. Just curiosity.


pep pep. Well you made me chuckle at least.
Love ya tons,
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DrW
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Re: Does Thomas S Monson tell lies...?

Post by DrW »

It appears that the believers here are saying that it is okay for President Monson makes stuff up as he goes along. After all, a faith promoting story that is embellished or changed to fit the audience should be okay right? (So long as it is faith promoting.)

While keeping in mind the demonstrably false tall tales of Paul Dunn or even those of Jeffery Holland as described on another thread, where does one draw the line?

Here is a suggestion for believers:

Next time you feel like giving a Church leader a pass for telling a tall tale, consider what your attitude would be if we were talking about the President of the country rather than the President of the Church.

Now that you have the firestorm of criticism and calls for impeachment firmly in mind, ask yourself why we should demand any less from our religious leaders (who claim truth) than than we do from our political leaders.
David Hume: "---Mistakes in philosophy are merely ridiculous, those in religion are dangerous."

DrW: "Mistakes in science are learning opportunities and are eventually corrected."

stemelbow
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Re: Does Thomas S Monson tell lies...?

Post by stemelbow »

Buffalo wrote:I'm angst-free, Stem. How about you?


Dang fellas...stop it...I can't stop chuckling now (as I wipe some tears from my eyes that developed as i tried to squelch the laughing a bit).
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Stem


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Morley
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Re: Does Thomas S Monson tell lies...?

Post by Morley »

stemelbow wrote:
Morley wrote:Yep.


Doesn't saying "yep" to this question already expose you as one who already assumes Monson has fabricated the story? Ah well...if your view changes based on this, that's something.


Sure, I'm assuming there inconsistencies in his stories.

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Re: Does Thomas S Monson tell lies...?

Post by stemelbow »

DrW wrote:It appears that the believers here are saying that it is okay for President Monson makes stuff up as he goes along. After all, a faith promoting story that is embellished or changed to fit the audience should be okay right? (So long as it is faith promoting.)


uh...I don't know about others, but I didn't say that.

While keeping in mind the demonstrably false tall tales of Paul Dunn or even those of Jeffery Holland as described on another thread, where does one draw the line?

Here is a suggestion for believers:

Next time you feel like giving a Church leader a pass for telling a tall tale, consider what your attitude would be if we were talking about the President of the country rather than the President of the Church.

Now that you have the firestorm of criticism and calls for impeachment firmly in mind, ask yourself why we should demand any less from our religious leaders (who claim truth) than than we do from our political leaders.


Oh please. So now we'll just assume the story is false? We'll even go steps further than ol' Buffalo and a priori assume stories told by LDS are false until proven otherwise? My goodness, this is worse than I thought.
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Stem


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Morley
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Re: Does Thomas S Monson tell lies...?

Post by Morley »

stemelbow wrote:....

Oh please. So now we'll just assume the story is false? We'll even go steps further than ol' Buffalo and a priori assume stories told by LDS are false until proven otherwise? My goodness, this is worse than I thought.
My bold.

No one said this.

stemelbow
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Re: Does Thomas S Monson tell lies...?

Post by stemelbow »

Morley wrote:Sure, I'm assuming there inconsistencies in his stories.


Doesn't it make sense that the inconsistencies are due to other factors? I mean it appears according to Nevo's findings the buy was really 16 instead of 15. But it wasn't long after he turned 16, so maybe he told Monson about enlisting when he was 15?

As per his death, perhaps Monson was confused in '69 about when it was exactly, but when his mother's letter came he was able to correct that?

I don't think theres anything to go with your guys' assumption of fabrication. But if it suits ya, you can be as cynical over LDS all you want.
Love ya tons,
Stem


I ain't nuttin'. don't get all worked up on account of me.

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