Does Thomas S Monson tell lies...?

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subgenius
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Re: Does Thomas S Monson tell lies...?

Post by subgenius »

jon wrote:Hi subgenius, thanks for posting on the 'thread that won't die'.

It's the good folks like you that keep threads like this going and going and going and going and going and...well, you get my point.


Any way - looks like Monson got caught out on this one - in terms of the OP question "Does Thomas S Monson tell lies...? Kinda looks like it don't ya think?

i think it kinda does not look like it, looks more like a lot of conjecture, distraction, misdirection and speculation, but no real proof that his motive was to deceive or mislead.
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Re: Does Thomas S Monson tell lies...?

Post by jon »

subgenius wrote:
jon wrote:Hi subgenius, thanks for posting on the 'thread that won't die'.

It's the good folks like you that keep threads like this going and going and going and going and going and...well, you get my point.


Any way - looks like Monson got caught out on this one - in terms of the OP question "Does Thomas S Monson tell lies...? Kinda looks like it don't ya think?

i think it kinda does not look like it, looks more like a lot of conjecture, distraction, misdirection and speculation, but no real proof that his motive was to deceive or mislead.


I agree with you - we have no concrete proof as to his motive....
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Re: Does Thomas S Monson tell lies...?

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Why do you suppose that Mormon GAs, when wanting interject a story in their preaching to emphasize a point, do not introduce it as a parable. For example, "The lord commands us not to lie. As a parable to illustrate the wisdom of this commandment and what might happen if we do lie, ... ."

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Re: Does Thomas S Monson tell lies...?

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sock puppet wrote:Why do you suppose that Mormon GAs, when wanting interject a story in their preaching to emphasize a point, do not introduce it as a parable. For example, "The lord commands us not to lie. As a parable to illustrate the wisdom of this commandment and what might happen if we do lie, ... ."


Parables are out of style.
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Re: Does Thomas S Monson tell lies...?

Post by subgenius »

sock puppet wrote:Why do you suppose that Mormon GAs, when wanting interject a story in their preaching to emphasize a point, do not introduce it as a parable. For example, "The lord commands us not to lie. As a parable to illustrate the wisdom of this commandment and what might happen if we do lie, ... ."

Image
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Re: Does Thomas S Monson tell lies...?

Post by sock puppet »

subgenius wrote:
sock puppet wrote:Why do you suppose that Mormon GAs, when wanting interject a story in their preaching to emphasize a point, do not introduce it as a parable. For example, "The lord commands us not to lie. As a parable to illustrate the wisdom of this commandment and what might happen if we do lie, ... ."

Image

So you obviously have no intelligent answer to my question, as illustrated by your post trying to deflect my point. Hmmm.

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Re: Does Thomas S Monson tell lies...?

Post by subgenius »

sock puppet wrote:...So you obviously have no intelligent answer to my question, as illustrated by your post trying to deflect my point. Hmmm.

an intelligent answer is often absent when the question does not merit one.
Your proposal of why the GA's do not subscribe to the "scared straight" school of inspiration seemed rather facetious or perhaps of some other nefarious motive.
Image

I do not believe the record supports the notion that teaching by love or teaching by fear are mutually exclusive.
It seems rather obvious that GA's have subscribed, over the years, to both philosophies. However, if you can not see the distinction between the two then perhaps a primer is needed?
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Re: Does Thomas S Monson tell lies...?

Post by Equality »

The whole Manti Te'o thing reminded me of this thread. Manti is really just doing that which has been done in other venues by his church leaders: embellishing, exaggerating, misleading with a phony story whose "truthiness" is spiritually uplifting.
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Re: Does Thomas S Monson tell lies...?

Post by subgenius »

Equality wrote:The whole Manti Te'o thing reminded me of this thread. Manti is really just doing that which has been done in other venues by his church leaders: embellishing, exaggerating, misleading with a phony story whose "truthiness" is spiritually uplifting.

Yet, if you were familiar with the story - Manti was not the offender
but merely the victim..
and
"Our investigators through their work were able to discover online chatter among the perpetrators that is sort of the ultimate proof of this, the joy they were taking, the sort of casualness with which among themselves they were referring to what they had accomplished and what they had done,"
and
so, your theory about "doing that which has been done in other venues by his church" seems a little...how should we say....inadequate?...or just simply without any proof, evidence, or common sense?
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Re: Does Thomas S Monson tell lies...?

Post by Doctor CamNC4Me »

Manti Te'o said, "She was the most beautiful girl I had ever met."

How is he not lying?

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Re: Does Thomas S Monson tell lies...?

Post by Equality »

subgenius wrote:Yet, if you were familiar with the story - Manti was not the offender

Guess you haven't been keeping up, sub:
Schaap also said that Te’o admitted to misleading his own father about his meeting with Kekua. According to Schaap, Te’o said, “That goes to back to what I did with my dad, so I kind of tailored my stories to have people think, that year, I kind of met her.”

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/college/weiss-camera-shy-lb-breaks-silence-insists-victim-article-1.1243075#ixzz2IRxI9c3j
Te'o has admitted to lying to his dad (that's what the euphemism "tailored my stories" means--he lied. It is also a fact that, according to Te'o's own story, he received a call on December 6 from the woman who had pretended to be the "girlfriend" he thought had died in September, so he knew at that time that his "girlfriend" had not actually died. Two days later he gave interviews in which he talked about how he had lost his girlfriend to leukemia. He then continued to lie by omission by not coming out with the truth and letting the world continue to believe all the stories he had told about the girlfriend he had never actually met.

In the interview with Schaap, which Te'o refused to allow to be video recorded, Te'o said, according to Schapp, that “[r]ight up until a few hours before the Deadspin story broke two days ago [Te'o] wasn’t quite sure what happened but at that time he got a phone call from Ronaiah Tuiasospo in which he admitted that he had perpetrated this hoax and in a series of communications also apologized for it.” If Te'o didn't knwo what happened until after the Deadspin article came out, then either he or Notre Dame or both were lying on Wednesday when Swarbrick gave details about a private investigation that Notre Dame had conducted the results of which they had shared with Te'o in private meetings on December 26. It also doesn't mesh with the claim that Te'o planned to go public with the story but Deadspin beat him to the punch.

The facts indisputably show that Te'o lied and that he perpetrated the hoax. The only questions are the extent of his involvement (i.e., was he in on it from the beginning? If not, at what point did he learn he had been punked? And why did he continue to perpetrate the hoax?) It may be that he started out as a victim of a hooax, but at some point (no later than December 6 but perhaps much earlier), he became an active participant in it. So, beastie's humorous question from another thread is apt: is Te'o Joseph Smith or Martin Harris? Too early to tell at this point.
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Re: Does Thomas S Monson tell lies...?

Post by DrW »

The worst part about the Manti Te'o debacle for the LDS Church is that the story just won't go away.

It has gotten a great deal of attention because the sports news media was taken in by it and is now trying to explain why. Print media journalists are rushing to radio, television and the internet in an attempt to explain their actions, soften recriminations, or shift blame.

Late night talk show hosts love it because it is so bizarre. The story even made it onto the 2013 premier of Real Time with Bill Maher.

The idea that such behavior is not surprising, given that Manti is Mormon, has been mentioned more than once (on NPR, for example).

As has been described on other threads, this kind of new story just reinforces the perception (already introduced into popular culture by "The Book of Mormon" on Broadway, for example) that lying for the Lord is a well accepted, and even deeply ingrained, trait in Mormon culture.
David Hume: "---Mistakes in philosophy are merely ridiculous, those in religion are dangerous."

DrW: "Mistakes in science are learning opportunities and are eventually corrected."

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Re: Does Thomas S Monson tell lies...?

Post by Droopy »

jon wrote:
Nomad wrote:people who think the product of your imaginations is somehow related to truth.


Wow, you say some profound things, what a pity it's never deliberate.



Anyone who's dealt with this "forum" for a long enough time, and/or who has immersed himself in the uniquely secularist anti-Mormon (and especially "exmo") world at any depth, would have made the same general observation.

Heck, I sure have, on numerous occasions.
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Re: Does Thomas S Monson tell lies...?

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del
Last edited by Droopy on Sun Jan 20, 2013 7:43 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Does Thomas S Monson tell lies...?

Post by Droopy »

Blixa wrote:
I haven't followed the Patton story at all. My only point is that FPR's play fast and loose with details. I think everyone knows this.


No, no one "knows" anything like this. I know you'd like to create the impression that everyone "knows" this, but that's something altogether different. You told an anecdotal story that you claim reflects poorly on Thomas S. Monson. You then extrapolated this story and its implications to the entire leadership of the Church. That's what we have thus far.

I do think the practice is dishonest. I don't think the speakers are anything but sincere. I suspect that is hard for you to understand.


You can be, Blixa, very, very hard to understand.
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Re: Does Thomas S Monson tell lies...?

Post by Droopy »

Nomad wrote:Thousands of military personnel in WWII are listed as "missing in action" instead of "dead". If Patton was MIA, he wouldn't appear on the list of the dead. He would be presumed dead, and for naval casualties, that was pretty much a done deal. Lots of infantry MIA's eventually turned up as POW's, but not naval MIA's. So that is a distinct possibility if he's not listed as dead, especially if he shows up on the roster of his last ship on 19 July 1944, but not in October of the same year. Not much chance he transfered to a new ship in the meantime, and if he did that would have almost surely have left a paper trail. From what Nevo says, he doesn't show up on any ship roster after July 1944.

I think it is pathetic that you people are trying to smear President Monson in this way.



Pretext is everything around here.

Anything will do.
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Re: Does Thomas S Monson tell lies...?

Post by Droopy »

stemelbow wrote:
This is turning into a witch hunt now.



The bar for such around here, stem, as you may have noticed long ago, isn't very high.
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Re: Does Thomas S Monson tell lies...?

Post by Droopy »

stemelbow wrote:This thread clearly amounts to critics quibbling about inconsequential things and attributing nefarious motives to an LDS person based on such petty quibbling.



Sounds like about 97% of all the threads ever posted here since this board's inception.
Nothing is going to startle us more when we pass through the veil to the other side than to realize how well we know our Father [in Heaven] and how familiar his face is to us

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Re: Does Thomas S Monson tell lies...?

Post by Albion »

I don't know if the man lies or not but maintaining the myth that so many LDS people seem to believe, that he speaks with God as God's mouthpiece, is dishonest IMV.

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Re: Does Thomas S Monson tell lies...?

Post by palerobber »

Just Me, did you learn anything from the 1940 census?

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Re: Does Thomas S Monson tell lies...?

Post by Bazooka »

subgenius wrote:
Equality wrote:The whole Manti Te'o thing reminded me of this thread. Manti is really just doing that which has been done in other venues by his church leaders: embellishing, exaggerating, misleading with a phony story whose "truthiness" is spiritually uplifting.

Yet, if you were familiar with the story - Manti was not the offender
but merely the victim..
and
"Our investigators through their work were able to discover online chatter among the perpetrators that is sort of the ultimate proof of this, the joy they were taking, the sort of casualness with which among themselves they were referring to what they had accomplished and what they had done,"
and
so, your theory about "doing that which has been done in other venues by his church" seems a little...how should we say....inadequate?...or just simply without any proof, evidence, or common sense?


Wait...Manti's a Mormon?
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