From ''CNN Article On Mormon Name Change''

[Shulem]

Brethren and sisters:

We welcome you to Mormon Discussions and hope you find joy in conversing on the board this day.

Let us rejoice and take the name of the Lord in vain:

Jesus Christ!
Jesus Christ!
Jesus Christ!
Jesus Christ!
Jesus Christ!
Jesus Christ!
Jesus Christ!
Jesus Christ!
Jesus Christ!
Jesus Christ!
Jesus Christ!
Jesus Christ!
Jesus Christ!
Jesus Christ!
Jesus Christ!



Jesus Christ!
Jesus Christ!
Jesus Christ!
Jesus Christ!
Jesus Christ!
Jesus Christ!
Jesus Christ!
Jesus Christ!
Jesus Christ!
Jesus Christ!
Jesus Christ!
Jesus Christ!
Jesus Christ!
Jesus Christ!
Jesus Christ!

[Shulem]

For Christ's sake.

____ you Jesus

[Shulem]

I'm not giving the church another ____ penny!

[SPG]

Forgive them father, for they know NOT what they do.

[Shulem]

Forgive them father, for they know NOT what they do.

Kiss my ass, Jesus, you ____ worthless cocksucker!

[SPG]

Forgive them father, for they know NOT what they do.

Kiss my ass, Jesus, you ____ worthless cocksucker!

Worthless? He loves you. He wanted you, created means for you to live forever.

[Lemmie]

Forgive them father, for they know NOT what they do.

Kiss my ass, Jesus, you ____ worthless cocksucker!

Worthless? He loves you. He wanted you, created means for you to live forever.

Oh please. Leave Shulem alone. He doesn't need you to tell him an imaginary being loves him. He knows he's loved by real people. It also doesn't cost him 10% of his income.

[SPG]

Kiss my ass, Jesus, you ____ worthless cocksucker!

Worthless? He loves you. He wanted you, created means for you to live forever.

Oh please. Leave Shulem alone. He doesn't need you to tell him an imaginary being loves him. He knows he's loved by real people. It also doesn't cost him 10% of his income.

Shulem is apparently, being a bitter smart ass, by posting things that would intentionally offend sensitive do-gooders like me. But there is a message in my words for Shulem, that what he wanted from God, that what he wanted from religion, is still there. The magic everyone is so insistent isn't there, is there. But, if you believe that somehow "facts" rule the day, then it all looks like BS. But in fact, (irony noted) "facts" are merely illusions of a different kind. So real people? Those people are no more real then the god he profanes. In fact, that god created them, their illusions, their social structures, and without God, it would all come apart, like it has a thousand times before.

[Lemmie]

Kiss my ass, Jesus, you ____ worthless cocksucker!

Worthless? He loves you. He wanted you, created means for you to live forever.

Oh please. Leave Shulem alone. He doesn't need you to tell him an imaginary being loves him. He knows he's loved by real people. It also doesn't cost him 10% of his income.

Shulem is apparently, being a bitter smart ass, by posting things that would intentionally offend sensitive do-gooders like me. But there is a message in my words for Shulem, that what he wanted from God, that what he wanted from religion, is still there. The magic everyone is so insistent isn't there, is there. But, if you believe that somehow "facts" rule the day, then it all looks like BS. But in fact, (irony noted) "facts" are merely illusions of a different kind. So real people? Those people are no more real then the god he profanes. In fact, that god created them, their illusions, their social structures, and without God, it would all come apart, like it has a thousand times before.

'the magic is there' ?

If I 'believe that somehow "facts" rule the day' ??

'in fact, "facts" are merely illusions' ???

Real people are 'no more real' than imaginary beings ????

Ok, then.

Also, your god doesn't sound very nice, since he apparently not only told you someone was 'a bitter smart ass,' but he also told you that you should call someone 'a bitter smart ass' in public.

[Dr. Shades]

But in fact, (irony noted) "facts" are merely illusions of a different kind.

You're wrong. If it's an illusion, then it isn't a fact. Therefore, facts aren't illusions.

Remember, words mean things, SPG.

So real people? Those people are no more real then the god he profanes.

But they're immediately present.

In fact, that god created them, their illusions, their social structures, and without God, it would all come apart, like it has a thousand times before.

How do you know it would come apart, if like you say God is an illusion?

[SPG]

If I 'believe that somehow "facts" rule the day' ??

'in fact, "facts" are merely illusions' ???

Real people are 'no more real' than imaginary beings ????

Ok, then.

Also, your god doesn't sound very nice, since he apparently not only told you someone was 'a bitter smart ass,' but he also told you that you should call someone 'a bitter smart ass' in public.

"Facts are the enemy of truth." -Dude fighting a windmill.

Yes, facts are illusions. Take anything fact that you can think of and watch it unravel when it is put to the question. (Inquisitors killed the guy fighting the windmill)

A famous and popular fact. The Earth is round. But, the gravity the that shapes the earth is flat basically everywhere on the surface. So, the earth is flat or round, based on your point of reference. The magnetic field is kind of doughnut shaped. And even what we call round is more oval. And what is round in a 2 dimensional holoflax universe (based on government report?)

Everything we think is a fact, is just a group consensus. And a billion people can wrong, just as easy as one. Because it is often the "one" that educates the other 7 billion.

[SPG]

You're wrong. If it's an illusion, then it isn't a fact. Therefore, facts aren't illusions.

There is ONLY truth, everything is illusion. Since the "absolute truth" exists in the void holding the universes, most of what we see and believe is illusion.

So real people? Those people are no more real then the god he profanes.

But they're immediately present.

Matter of perspective. I see god within everyone.

In fact, that god created them, their illusions, their social structures, and without God, it would all come apart, like it has a thousand times before.

How do you know it would come apart, if like you say God is an illusion?

Bible filled with stories with such stories.

[Lemmie]

If I 'believe that somehow "facts" rule the day' ??

'in fact, "facts" are merely illusions' ???

Real people are 'no more real' than imaginary beings ????

Ok, then.

Also, your god doesn't sound very nice, since he apparently not only told you someone was 'a bitter smart ass,' but he also told you that you should call someone 'a bitter smart ass' in public.

"Facts are the enemy of truth." -Dude fighting a windmill.

Yes, facts are illusions. Take anything fact that you can think of and watch it unravel when it is put to the question. (Inquisitors killed the guy fighting the windmill)

A famous and popular fact. The Earth is round. But, the gravity the that shapes the earth is flat basically everywhere on the surface. So, the earth is flat or round, based on your point of reference. The magnetic field is kind of doughnut shaped. And even what we call round is more oval. And what is round in a 2 dimensional holoflax universe (based on government report?)

Everything we think is a fact, is just a group consensus. And a billion people can wrong, just as easy as one. Because it is often the "one" that educates the other 7 billion.

Oh boy. No.

[SPG]

Oh boy. No.

It was worth a try.

[Shulem]

Shulem is apparently, being a bitter smart ass, by posting things that would intentionally offend sensitive do-gooders like me.

Let me give you a little advice. Don't go around citing the Father forgives those who know not what they do. You've taken that completely out of context and abused your Savior's teaching. You see, according to Joseph Smith, that forgiveness was meant for the Roman soldiers who crucified Christ, supposedly being ignorant, following orders, and in a sense being victims of circumstances they had to play that role. So Christ asked his Father to forgive them. He wasn't pleading forgiveness for the Jews who condemned him. They were unrepentant and therefore unforgiven.

As for me? I have no interest in imaginary Jesus or his bloody atonement. I have no interest in the bible god whatsoever. I don't repent or report to bible god in any way. This means I'm an unrepentant sinner and the Father isn't about to forgive me just because YOU spout off and call him to do so! Who the ____ are you to tell God to forgive me? Who the ____ made YOU Jesus Christ?

You arrogant asshole! ____ you!

If you really wanted to be like Christ and practice what you preach you might have said something like: I feel sorry for any pain you have and I forgive you for your offending my religion and consider you just as important as me in the eyes of God.

There. See how easy it is to be a real Christian?

Jesus H Christ. You're a ____ piece of work.

[SPG]

Let me give you a little advice. Don't go around citing the Father forgives those who know not what they do.

Giving unsolicited advice is not only arrogant, but an act of violence in some schools of thought. But I can handle it.

You've taken that completely out of context and abused your Savior's teaching. You see, according to Joseph Smith, that forgiveness was meant for the Roman soldiers who crucified Christ, supposedly being ignorant, following orders, and in a sense being victims of circumstances they had to play that role. So Christ asked his Father to forgive them. He wasn't pleading forgiveness for the Jews who condemned him. They were unrepentant and therefore unforgiven.

I added context. But cursing the idea that is hopefully going to save the world is basically an insult to the father of that idea. Apparently, you didn't know what your were doing. Scriptures are what they are, because they can apply to situations over many years.

As for me? I have no interest in imaginary Jesus or his bloody atonement. I have no interest in the bible god whatsoever. I don't repent or report to bible god in any way. This means I'm an unrepentant sinner and the Father isn't about to forgive me just because YOU spout off and call him to do so!

Obviously. Obviously. But I can see you are in pain. I was just offering a prayer. When we are in pain, our perspective gets sucked in tight around us and we lose site of the bigger picture. I was just looking out for you.

Who the ____ are you to tell God to forgive me? Who the ____ made YOU Jesus Christ?

Just another humble child of God. (well, maybe not that humble) Since I try to carry the spirit of Christ with me, it seems logical that I could speak in his name. I am long ways from actually being Christ.

You arrogant asshole! ____ you!

We all have one, mine just happens to be arrogant.

If you really wanted to be like Christ and practice what you preach you might have said something like: I feel sorry for any pain you have and I forgive you for your offending my religion and consider you just as important as me in the eyes of God.

There. See how easy it is to be a real Christian?

That was beautiful. If I weren't so damn arrogant, I would have said something like that.

Jesus H Christ. You're a ____ piece of work.

So am I Jesus now, or are you just cussing?

[Lemmie]

Let me give you a little advice. Don't go around citing the Father forgives those who know not what they do.

Giving unsolicited advice is not only arrogant, but an act of violence in some schools of thought. But I can handle it.

Not that Shulem needs my help, but...

Shulem is apparently, being a bitter smart ass, by posting things that would intentionally offend sensitive do-gooders like me. But there is a message in my words for Shulem, that what he wanted from God, that what he wanted from religion, is still there. The magic everyone is so insistent isn't there, is there. But....

....When we are in pain, our perspective gets sucked in tight around us and we lose site of the bigger picture. I was just looking out for you.

Since I try to carry the spirit of Christ with me, it seems logical that I could speak in his name.

[SPG]

Not that Shulem needs my help, but...

Well, I'm glad you tried to help him anyway.

But, don't confuse a "message" with "advice."

See, if I give a message from God, then its just a message and I don't have to take responsibility for my advice, er... I mean message. Observing his pain, praying for his soul, isn't advice either. Irritating, I'm sure, but not advice.

But, let me give YOU some advice. . . . actually I won't because just saying it is annoying.

I sense a lot of sarcasm in Shulem. If I thought I had actually offended him or hurt his feelings, I would let him alone. Down here in the Telestial Kingdom, you cannot always tell how someone really feels.

[Lemmie]

But, don't confuse a "message" with "advice."

See, if I give a message from God, then its just a message and I don't have to take responsibility for my advice, er... I mean message.

And let me guess, YOU are the one who puts words to the advice, and YOU are the one who decides its from god, and in fact, YOU are the one who defines which god it's from.

Then you refuse to take responsibility for your words. You are making your religion look very, very bad here.

[SPG]

But, don't confuse a "message" with "advice."

See, if I give a message from God, then its just a message and I don't have to take responsibility for my advice, er... I mean message.

And let me guess, YOU are the one who puts words to the advice, and YOU are the one who decides its from god, and in fact, YOU are the one who defines which god it's from.

Then you refuse to take responsibility for your words. You are making your religion look very, very bad here.

No, no, no. I take responsibility for my words, but that is different then giving advice.

For me to say, "God sends a message and it says, 'I Love You'" isn't giving advice. It's a message. I take responsibility for sharing that message. Advice is more like,

Let me give you a little advice. Don't go around citing the Father forgives those who know not what they do.

My message that the father forgives isn't advice. And me reading a message in the nature of life is a message, not advice. Yes, I get to decide which message I give, otherwise I couldn't take responsibility for it. I didn't advise Shulem to stop . . . how did he put it?

Let us rejoice and take the name of the Lord in vain:

If I had advised him, that would have been unsolicited advice. Instead, I merely shared with him that God, or Jesus, or whoever, loved him and prayed that they forgive him.

Why would I do this? Because it was my impression that Shulem is angry with the common Mormon concept of God, which is that a skydaddy is up there running things. My concept of God is that he is the Intent and System of Life. God is the desire (love) to live, and the method (good plan) to do it. To curse this method seems misinformed, and hopeless. Just because I don't fully understand the desire or method, doesn't mean it isn't out there. Those that find it, love life and love themselves. Thus, God loves Shulem. But, it is my personal opinion, (not advice) that bitterness is a "misunderstanding" of the plan or/and the love.

[Lemmie]

Instead, I merely shared with him that God, or Jesus, or whoever, loved him and prayed that they forgive him.

How rude. Just leave Shulem alone, like he asked you to.

Why would I do this?

Your rationale is irrelevant. Don't impose your beliefs on someone else. It's rude.