Doctor Peterson wrote:I find it deeply gratifying that we have a man in the White House who has the moral authority...
He's the best at moral authority, believe me, it's true. A lot of people are saying it.
Doctor Peterson wrote:I find it deeply gratifying that we have a man in the White House who has the moral authority...
grindael wrote:It was the written defense against the allegations, not the background. There are still people who believe that Joseph was innocent, the same as with Kavanaugh.
grindael wrote:And I might add, why are the allegations against Smith believed? Because we have access to his personal diaries, writings, etc. Do we have such documentation with Kavanaugh?
grindael wrote:So the two written defenses have nothing in common in your mind? I get that. But how am I making your argument for you when you state that it must depend on whether people believe that Kavanaugh is guilty? What does that have to do with the responses? People believed both about Joseph at the time, same as Kavanaugh. I don't see your point at all.
" At the age of ten my father’s family removed to Palmyra, N.Y. where, and in the vi cinity of which, I lived, or, made it my place of residence, until I was twenty one—the lat ter part, in the town of Manchester.
During this time, as is common to most, or all youths, I fell into many vices and fol lies; but as my accusers are, and have been forward to accuse me of being guilty of gross and outragious violations of the peace and good order of the community, I take the occasion to remark, that, though, as I have said above, “as is common to most, or all youths, I fell into many vices and follies,” I have not, neither can it be sustained, in truth, been guilty of wronging or injuring any man or society of men; and those imperfections to which I alude, and for which I have often had occasion to lament, were a light, and too often, vain mind, exhibiting a foolish and trifling conversation.
This being all, and the worst, that my accusers can substantiate against my moral character, I wish to add, that it is not with out a deep feeling of regret that I am thus called upon in answer to my own conscience, to fulfill a duty I owe to myself, as well as to the cause of truth, in making this public confession of my former uncircumspect walk, and unchaste conversation: and more particularly, as I often acted in violation of those holy precepts which I knew came from God. But as the “Articles and Covenants” of this church are plain upon this particular point, I do not deem it important to proceed further. I only add, that I do not, nor never have, pretended to be any other than a man “subject to passion,” and liable, without the assisting grace of the Savior, to deviate from that perfect path in which all men are commanded to walk!"
grindael wrote:So would that be the case IN 1838? About SEXUAL MISCONDUCT? We have Levi Lewis and Eliza Winters, we have Cowdery (labeled as a disgruntled colleague). It seems to me that you are putting all the Nauvoo stuff on what Smith wrote way earlier than that, I am looking at it from a contemporary perspective. As it was going on, like with Kavanaugh.
Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:Trying to draw an inference that we treat today's accusers the same way Smith's accusers were treated is an overreach, imo. I'm saying the two situations and the witnesses were so different that trying to draw any sort of inference is useless at best, and kind of a political cynicism at worst.
Kishkumen wrote:Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:Trying to draw an inference that we treat today's accusers the same way Smith's accusers were treated is an overreach, imo. I'm saying the two situations and the witnesses were so different that trying to draw any sort of inference is useless at best, and kind of a political cynicism at worst.
Smith tried to smear his accusers, and the same is still done to women who accuse men of sexual crimes. Blasey Ford received death threats. Granted, these threats did not come from Kavanaugh, whereas Smith did his own dirty work. I am not sure all that much has changed. Of course the two situations are not perfectly parallel, but there are similarities, because the atrocious behavior of many men toward women is still very much the same.
Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:
Whatever the case may be I still maintain using a current political event, drawing a parallel to Joseph Smith, and then concluding the current political event is ____ because the witnesses aren't believed is just political cynicism with a veneer of parallelism to it can be discussed on the Terrestrial forum.
- Doc
grindael wrote:Yeah, I get that, you keep repeating it. And you can speculate all you want about my motives, but I've stated them. I didn't drag anything political into this, that was others. I simply made a comparison of their written defenses because I was struck by the similarities. My feelings about what is going on NOW, were in response to others. But I've tried to draw it back to the written defenses over and over again.
Think what you will.
Some things never change...