Are people really afraid that their bishops are gonna find out, or that someone is gonna recognize their name and turn them in? I think that's ridiculous. I've never heard of that happening, and I have no clue why anyone from our side would ever do that.
You don't know LDS apologists very well, do you? I've been personally threatened with church discipline several times. The only thing they needed was my name.
Are people really afraid that their bishops are gonna find out, or that someone is gonna recognize their name and turn them in? I think that's ridiculous. I've never heard of that happening, and I have no clue why anyone from our side would ever do that.
You don't know LDS apologists very well, do you? I've been personally threatened with church discipline several times. The only thing they needed was my name.
Yep. A FAIR poster threatened last year to call my wife and my bishop to let them know what I was up to. Of course, both my wife and my bishop know where I stand, but it was unnerving to think that someone could cause problems for me and my family. It made me a lot more cautious about personal information.
I know I am coming a bit late to this conversation (but I finally got around to reregistering).
I always viewed the religion classes (for the most part) as easy credits. They were not difficuly, and attendance seemed like it was usually the biggest issue.
Someone early on mentioned Dana Pike. I think that it should be said that there are different categories of religion teachers. Some are the products of the CES department, some are instructors from other disciplines taking their turn in the religion classes, and some are academics in related fields working at BYU.
Dana Pike, for example, has his PhD in Near Eastern Studies (I think from the Univeristy of Michigan). He was one of the official editing team on the Dead Sea Scrolls. He has some excellent credentials, and I have known him for quite some time. Taking religion classes from him is a completely different experience than the traditional classes (especially if you do some of his graduate level readings classes). David Seeley was another one with a similar background (and his wife Joanne - although I do not know if she teaches there right now). These were very different experiences from the standard set of classes, and involved more critical thinking skills. I also enjoyed my classes with Craig Ostler (Blake's brother) in Church History. The trick I found to getting the most of the religion classes was finding the good instructors. After a couple of days in one of McConkie's classes, I determined never to bother. It simply wasn't what I was interested in.
Benjamin McGuire wrote:I know I am coming a bit late to this conversation (but I finally got around to reregistering).
I always viewed the religion classes (for the most part) as easy credits. They were not difficuly, and attendance seemed like it was usually the biggest issue.
Someone early on mentioned Dana Pike. I think that it should be said that there are different categories of religion teachers. Some are the products of the CES department, some are instructors from other disciplines taking their turn in the religion classes, and some are academics in related fields working at BYU.
Dana Pike, for example, has his PhD in Near Eastern Studies (I think from the Univeristy of Michigan). He was one of the official editing team on the Dead Sea Scrolls. He has some excellent credentials, and I have known him for quite some time. Taking religion classes from him is a completely different experience than the traditional classes (especially if you do some of his graduate level readings classes). David Seeley was another one with a similar background (and his wife Joanne - although I do not know if she teaches there right now). These were very different experiences from the standard set of classes, and involved more critical thinking skills. I also enjoyed my classes with Craig Ostler (Blake's brother) in Church History. The trick I found to getting the most of the religion classes was finding the good instructors. After a couple of days in one of McConkie's classes, I determined never to bother. It simply wasn't what I was interested in.
Ben
I think that's perfectly accurate, and many people avoid McConkie's class. I'm taking an Old TEstament class from David Johnson and the class is all about cultural, historical and doctrinal aspects of the Old Testament. Besides the prayer there's no indication that it's an LDS oriented class.
Are people really afraid that their bishops are gonna find out, or that someone is gonna recognize their name and turn them in? I think that's ridiculous. I've never heard of that happening, and I have no clue why anyone from our side would ever do that.
You don't know LDS apologists very well, do you? I've been personally threatened with church discipline several times. The only thing they needed was my name.
Yep. A FAIR poster threatened last year to call my wife and my bishop to let them know what I was up to. Of course, both my wife and my bishop know where I stand, but it was unnerving to think that someone could cause problems for me and my family. It made me a lot more cautious about personal information.
I think those people are idiots, but I was also unaware that critics of the church like to fly under the radar. Why would someone criticize the church but want to keep participating like nothing's happening and not let anyone know? That completely undermines the point of criticism.
Are people really afraid that their bishops are gonna find out, or that someone is gonna recognize their name and turn them in? I think that's ridiculous. I've never heard of that happening, and I have no clue why anyone from our side would ever do that.
You don't know LDS apologists very well, do you? I've been personally threatened with church discipline several times. The only thing they needed was my name.
Yep. A FAIR poster threatened last year to call my wife and my bishop to let them know what I was up to. Of course, both my wife and my bishop know where I stand, but it was unnerving to think that someone could cause problems for me and my family. It made me a lot more cautious about personal information.
I think those people are idiots, but I was also unaware that critics of the church like to fly under the radar. Why would someone criticize the church but want to keep participating like nothing's happening and not let anyone know? That completely undermines the point of criticism.
This illustrates your ignorance of what it is truly like to have awareness of the fraud of Mormonism and yet socially having to still involve oneself with the cultists.
Most of us cannot truly just walk away from Mormonism. It is entwined into our social structure.
And crawling on the planet's face Some insects called the human race Lost in time And lost in space...and meaning
maklelan wrote:I wasn't trying to cast them in a superior light, I was just trying to show that there's nothing to be afraid of. Who's got more reason to be concerned, someone arguing with generally ticked off people with a bone to pick, or someone arguing with faithful members of the church?
Obviously, it cuts both ways. On the other hand, I am unaware of the antis running anything equivalent to the SCMC and its various espionage operations.
Are people really afraid that their bishops are gonna find out, or that someone is gonna recognize their name and turn them in? I think that's ridiculous. I've never heard of that happening, and I have no clue why anyone from our side would ever do that.
Because people from "your" side are human beings, too.
VegasRefugee wrote:This illustrates your ignorance of what it is truly like to have awareness of the fraud of Mormonism and yet socially having to still involve oneself with the cultists.
Most of us cannot truly just walk away from Mormonism. It is entwined into our social structure.
So you (an alleged Jew) would rather live a lie than transcend that lie and move on? All for the sake of not disrupting your social status? And I'm supposed to think you understand the world and yourself better than me?
Are people really afraid that their bishops are gonna find out, or that someone is gonna recognize their name and turn them in? I think that's ridiculous. I've never heard of that happening, and I have no clue why anyone from our side would ever do that.
You don't know LDS apologists very well, do you? I've been personally threatened with church discipline several times. The only thing they needed was my name.
Yep. A FAIR poster threatened last year to call my wife and my bishop to let them know what I was up to. Of course, both my wife and my bishop know where I stand, but it was unnerving to think that someone could cause problems for me and my family. It made me a lot more cautious about personal information.
I think those people are idiots, but I was also unaware that critics of the church like to fly under the radar. Why would someone criticize the church but want to keep participating like nothing's happening and not let anyone know? That completely undermines the point of criticism.
That's just it. I wasn't flying under the radar. My name is fairly well known, since I've been around here a long time (I think just about as long as Pahoran has), and my wife is aware of everything I do. But when complete strangers start talking about my family, then I get nervous. Who knows what these people are capable of doing?
Mister Scratch wrote:On the other hand, I am unaware of the antis running anything equivalent to the SCMC and its various espionage operations.
By all means, please document this accusation.
Mister Scratch wrote:Because people from "your" side are human beings, too.
I'm afraid I can't relate. If I were ever positioned against an organization I wouldn't keep going through the motions afraid of being kicked out. After all, that's what I'm after anyway.