Please, I beg you, don't go to the Temple of Death

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Shulem
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Please, I beg you, don't go to the Temple of Death

Post by Shulem »

Please, do not go to the Mormon Temple of Death, wherein you may inflict upon yourself the sickness of Covid-19 and spread the virus among your own family -- possibly killing a family member, perhaps your own mother or, even your grandmother!

:surprised:

You would then be a murderer.

:twisted:

:lol:

Doing so will bring you nothing but regret. Visit the Telestial Board of Mormon Discussions at your own risk!

Beware, spiritual death lurks below. You may catch it if ye are not careful.

Welcome to the Telestial Board!

Covid-19 in Mormon Temple Handshakes

:lol:
Last edited by Shulem on Sat Jul 25, 2020 3:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Please, I beg you, DO NOT go to the Temple of Death

Post by Mormonicious »

Don't worry, they are changing them again.

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints announced Monday that some changes had been authorized to the temple endowment ceremony, but did not specify what those changes were.

"Part of the temple experience includes the making of sacred covenants, or promises, to God," the announcement read. "Most people are familiar with symbolic actions that accompany the making of religious covenants (such as prayer, immersion of an individual at baptism, or holding hands during a marriage ceremony). Similar simple, symbolic actions accompany the making of temple covenants."

The endowment ceremony is an important ritual in the church, in which church members make sacred covenants and engage in ordinances they believe are essential for eternal exaltation in the highest level of heaven. It centers around a ritual retelling of the cosmic drama of creation and the choices of Adam and Eve.

The ceremony has changed over time, most notably in 1990 and again in 2019. In January 2019, the church dropped language about women hearkening to their husbands, expanded the role of Eve, and shortened the length of the ceremony.

In October of 2019, it revised the temple recommend interview questions — the script of a conversation a member has to have with local leaders before being declared worthy to enter an LDS temple. Those changes included new wording for questions about members' commitments to live the church's teachings about chastity and its rules against drugs and alcohol. It also dropped the phrase "night and day" from a question about whether members were wearing their sacred garments.

https://religionnews.com/2020/07/20/uns ... -ceremony/
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Shulem
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Re: Please, I beg you, DO NOT go to the Temple of Death

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I have to think that temple attendance will drastically decline for quite some time to come even after the pandemic is declared officially over. Older persons who are accustomed to attending will reduce their visits anywhere from perhaps half to none at all. They don't want to get sick. Everyone knows that the ability to catch germs and viruses are easily passed on through hand touching and close contact such as what regularly occurs in temple service.

So, fewer members attending for either voluntary or assigned service will result in less overall capability or, reduced productivity. And it won't be just the old people who cut back on going or skip out altogether, but, moreover, anyone and everyone who has concerns about contracting germs and virus will reduce their commitment to the temple in order to protect themselves and their families. So, as I see it, overall temple attendance is going to be be greatly reduced on a worldwide level such as never seen before.

To counter this the Church will likely change some basic ordinance procedures in which to make the temple a safer place to maintain close contact with others by reducing to some degree the act of touching which is required by the ordinances. But will these changes be enough? I don't think so. There will still be a reduction in temple attendance because of the psychological changes people in general will experience once the pandemic passes wherein things are never going to be quite the same again. Shaking hands or making fleshy contact with everyone packed together in the same room is no longer going to be something people in general are going to want to do. The church is going to have to change with the times yet again in order to keep up the show.

It will be interesting to learn what new changes will take place in temple ordinances and how members feel about the new changes. I would have to say that any changes made will likely be an improvement and the members will go along with it all just fine. BUT, the Internet records everything. Future members will want to read what others did before the changes. The more things change with the passing of time the more it seems bizarre and cult-like. The result will be the temple has less value than once thought and that will result in more members leaving the church.

Thanks for listening to me ramble.

Have a great day, everyone!

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Shulem
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Re: Please, I beg you, DO NOT go to the Temple of Death

Post by Shulem »

The Church truly has been hit twofold with a double whammy. The temples have been shuttered and the missionaries called home. The Corona pandemic has disrupted operations in the Church to such a degree that it has brought it to a screeching halt. No baptisms for the dead, at all -- I have to think there are very few taking place for the living as well. The temples are sitting idle collecting dust and when it comes time to start it up again it's not going to be business as usual. Operating costs will be higher and less personnel to run the show but most importantly, fewer patrons to attend the silly Masonic Endowment Rituals. Who wants to be Adam and who wants to be Eve? Not enough in attendance to form a prayer circle.

Sad days in Mormonism.

Nobody is going to want to shake hands in Church. That is coming to a halt. Shaking hands spreads diseases and who wants to catch a disease and take it home? Home is where the Latter-day Saints have been spending their Sundays and by now through habit they have learned to enjoy being home and the idea of going back to boring meetings and listening to the same old stuff is not going to be a motivator.

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Re: Please, I beg you, DO NOT go to the Temple of Death

Post by cwald »

I don't get it. How can you keep changing the temple ceremony? Isn't that what Mormonism is all about...the catholics screwed the whole system up by changing the rules, things like baptism by immersion to sprinkles? I contend these changes to the temple ceremony invalidates the entire Mormon concept of the Great Apostasy, which means the restoration of the gospel, or Mormonism was never necessary to begin with
Last edited by cwald on Sun Jul 26, 2020 2:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"Jesus gave us the gospel, but Satan invented church. It takes serious evil to formalize faith into something tedious and then pile guilt on anyone who doesn’t participate enthusiastically." - Robert Kirby

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Shulem
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Re: Please, I beg you, DO NOT go to the Temple of Death

Post by Shulem »

cwald wrote:
Fri Jul 24, 2020 8:03 pm
I don't get it. How can you keep changing the temple ceremony? Isn't that what Mormonism is all about...the catholics screwed the whole system up by changing the rules, things like baptism by emersion to sprinkles? I contend these changes to the temple ceremony invalidates the entire Mormon concept of the Great Apostasy, which means the restoration of the gospel, or Mormonism was never necessary to begin with
Successors of Joseph Smith's Presidency have continued to change the ordinance of temple rites and claim they have the authority and revelation to do so. I hardly think Joseph Smith would have been happy knowing his Masonic Endowment would be changed and modified to suit the needs of future leaders who felt modern changes were in order. After all, the second coming was at hand, Christ was coming soon to visit his temple and reign on the earth!

The Church is guilty of luring countless unsuspecting victims into the cult practices and ordinances of the temple in order to secure total allegiance and obedience to the Church. They don't tell the members what really happens in the temple prior to going and what they are really expected to commit to. This was even more so when the penalties were part of the swearing rites prior to 1990. The penalties were sinister and just plain evil. The penalties were the True Sign of a Cult! Many a poor unsuspecting person went into the temple for the first time only to be shocked that they were required to perform horrible graphic oaths. Radio Free Mormon discusses this to some degree in his latest podcast:

Radio Free Mormon: 186: The Temple and Me

The Church continues to lure unsuspecting victims into the Cult Ceremony:

The initiatory ordinances include special blessings regarding your divine heritage and potential. As part of these ordinances, you will also be authorized to wear the sacred temple garment.

Authorized? Did they say, "authorized"? Rather, they should say, "COMMANDED", having strings attached to blessings that will be forfeited for failure to wear garments -- punishments to follow and be meted out. Yes, with Mormon god, there are always punishments to follow! You're going to burn and suffer if you fail to measure up!

When I received my instructions to wear the so-called authorized garment, I was told that I MUST wear them throughout my life. I was told to not defile them but to remain true and faithful to the covenant of wearing them until my work on earth was complete. Reading between the lines it was obvious that failure to live up to that covenant would result in bad things happening to me. In other words, take off the garments and ye shall be damned! You can see how the above statement on the Church website is a very weak way of saying that failure to wear the authorized garment for the balance of your life will result in damnation. Being damned means that authorized Mormons who take off their authorized garments won't get to live with Heavenly Father in the hereafter.

Frankly, I can't imagine the nightmare scenario of having to live with a being such as Mormon Heavenly Father. Everything I know about him sickens me. He disgusts me to no end. I could hardly stand in the same room with such a person. He reminds me of Donald Trump or Adolf Hitler. Heavenly Father of Mormonism is evil and despicable. I would do anything to ensure I never had to be with such a horrible person.

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Re: Please, I beg you, DO NOT go to the Temple of Death

Post by Temp. Admin. »

cwald wrote:I don't get it. How can you keep changing the temple ceremony? Isn't that what Mormonism is all about...the catholics screwed the whole system up by changing the rules, things like baptism by emersion to sprinkles?
APOSTASY: When your church changes.
CONTINUING REVELATION: When my church changes.

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Re: Please, I beg you, DO NOT go to the Temple of Death

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Temp. Admin. wrote:
Sat Jul 25, 2020 10:07 pm
cwald wrote:I don't get it. How can you keep changing the temple ceremony? Isn't that what Mormonism is all about...the catholics screwed the whole system up by changing the rules, things like baptism by emersion to sprinkles?
APOSTASY: When your church changes.
CONTINUING REVELATION: When my church changes.
Church apologists have a history of criticizing Catholics for changing the ordinance of baptism from original immersion to sprinkling or pouring water on babies. Yeah, I can imagine Joseph Fielding Smith complaining about that! BUT, hey, what would Joseph Fielding Smith think if he was told that future Church leaders will eliminate the penalties from the endowment because new members find it shocking and repugnant? Joseph Fielding Smith would be pretty concerned to know that the Church took the punch out of the endowment ceremony -- how can endowment oaths that lack death penalties represent the restored endowment ceremony restored by the prophet Joseph Smith?

I can imagine both Smith's saying that taking the consequences or penalties out of the endowment is like taking the immersion out of baptism and lacks the power to ratify the oath of the saving ordinance. The endowment ceremony today is watered down and lacks teeth. It's been neutered.

Indeed, the Church is in a state of apostasy and has changed the ordinances and broken the everlasting covenants which were revealed and established by the founding prophet, J Smith. Little wonder the angel atop the temple dropped his horn. Mormonism is quaking in apostasy. Perhaps the next earthquake will raise the temple to the ground while the First Presidency are creeping about inner rooms.

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Re: Please, I beg you, DO NOT go to the Temple of Death

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Temp. Admin. wrote:
Sat Jul 25, 2020 10:07 pm
cwald wrote:I don't get it. How can you keep changing the temple ceremony? Isn't that what Mormonism is all about...the catholics screwed the whole system up by changing the rules, things like baptism by immersion to sprinkles?
APOSTASY: When your church changes.
CONTINUING REVELATION: When my church changes.
Right.

Image

Mormon-speak is a wonderful thing...perfected over a 200 year history of leaders obfuscation and flat out lying. My brother told me in his ward they are going back to church for an hour and the elderly "are invited not to participate." Invited not to participate? isn't that just Mormon-speak for for not allowed in the building?
"Jesus gave us the gospel, but Satan invented church. It takes serious evil to formalize faith into something tedious and then pile guilt on anyone who doesn’t participate enthusiastically." - Robert Kirby

Beer makes you feel the way you ought to feel without beer. -- Henry Lawson

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Shulem
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Re: Please, I beg you, don't go to the Temple of Death

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cwald wrote:Mormon-speak is a wonderful thing...perfected over a 200 year history of leaders obfuscation and flat out lying. My brother told me in his ward they are going back to church for an hour and the elderly "are invited not to participate." Invited not to participate? isn't that just Mormon-speak for for not allowed in the building?
Yeah, it's a polite way of saying, "ye need not show up".

The same reasoning could well be applied to the temple could it not? In that case the temples should remain closed indefinitely because there won't be enough staff to welcome everyone who manages to show up.

Temples are houses of doom and death -- Corona incubators capable of killing countless elderly people. Probably by the time this pandemic is over there will be a marked decrease in voluntary temple workers. Less workers means less activity and that means less commitment to the Cult. Poor grandma died in the pandemic and poor grandpa can't go to the temple because he's afraid of getting sick. That's what's in store for the Temple Cult and their hand-holding Masonic rituals. How do you socially distance in a prayer circle? They will have to change the ordinance and break those covenants in order to keep patrons from breathing death on one another.

<cough>

<cough>

Excuse me, I don't feel so well.

:redface:

I hope I don't have Corona. I put my name on the prayer roll.

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Shulem
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Re: Please, I beg you, don't go to the Temple of Death

Post by Shulem »

Corona has killed temple workers!

I don't mean to seem crass or insensitive but these are the total death numbers as of right now for the following states:

274 Utah
146 Idaho
3,305 Arizona

My guess is there are less temple workers today then there were before the pandemic. My reasoning tells me there will be even less who are willing to report for temple service once the pandemic subsides -- a YEAR from now.

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Re: Please, I beg you, don't go to the Temple of Death

Post by Shulem »

The temple endowment ceremony is like a stick of dynamite.

How so?

Think about it. The officiators who run the endowment session make physical contact with everyone in the room multiple times. This contact is with the HANDS where the Corona virus and other viruses and germs tend to collect and linger -- hand to mouth being the culprit.

Therefore, the officiators of the endowment are like linchpins in spreading viruses and germs with patrons within the room. Think about it! That man at the front of the room has rubbed his index finger into the flesh of every single male patron -- one by one, each brother gets physically rubbed by the index finger of the officiator. And where has that index finger been? It's been up his nose! It's been rubbing his eye! It's been picking his teeth or scratching his lip.

Now, do you want to make contact with an index finger that has had contact with a roomful of people you don't know?

Indeed, commune hand rubbing that takes place in the endowment ceremony will spread Corona. The House of the Lord has become a House of Corona!

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Re: Please, I beg you, don't go to the Temple of Death

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All it takes is a SINGLE man in the endowment ceremony to have a hand infected with Corona to cause ALL the men in the room to get it on their hands.

It's that simple.

The Mormon Temple is perfect for spreading disease.

Image

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Re: Please, I beg you, don't go to the Temple of Death

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As a reminder, No specific temple content allowed in Terrestrial threads. You have to go down to the Telestial board where you can say anything about the temple down there. Specific content or details about temple ceremonies are only allowed in hell. Sorry, but that's the board rules. If you don't like it then take it up with Shades. He's the one that made up the dumb rule.

:mrgreen:

With that said, I'm pretty confident there will be some MAJOR changes to the endowment ceremony as a result of the Covid-19 pandemic. I'm willing to entertain the idea that hand touching between patrons during the ceremony will be completely eliminated!

Does anyone else share this view?

Regardless, there will be changes coming and hand touching will be modified or lessened to some degree if not completely.

It's going to be exiting to watch J Smith's Masonic Endowment ritual morph into something new. Things will change so much that Smith wouldn't recognize the endowment to be his own should he come back to visit the modern Mormon Church. Besides, polygamists are not welcomed.

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Re: Please, I beg you, don't go to the Temple of Death

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QUESTION for mentalgymnast!

Knowing what you know TODAY, would you be willing to attend a busy temple endowment session with a room full of sickly looking old men a year ago?

[ ] Yes
[ ] No

If you said "yes" then you're a fool.

If you said "no" then you're a prophet or you read Mormon Discussions.

:lol:

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Re: Please, I beg you, don't go to the Temple of Death

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QUESTION for Daniel C Peterson!

Suppose that during last Christmas the Holy Ghost revealed to you through personal revelation that a worldwide pandemic would force all the missionaries to come home and cause all the temples to close. Would you have attempted to warn anyone of the upcoming peril?

[ ] Yes
[ ] No

If you said "yes", who the hell made you prophet?

If you said "no", then what kind of husband or parent are you?

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Re: Please, I beg you, don't go to the Temple of Death

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QUESTION for Dallin H Oaks!

Suppose Jesus had personally visited you in secret a year ago to tell you that in the coming months a worldwide pandemic would cause all the missionaries to come home, shutter all the temples worldwide, and cancel all church meetings worldwide indefinitely!

Would you tell the President of the Church what you knew?

[ ] Yes
[ ] No

If "yes" then why didn't you wait for the prophet to tell you?
If "no" then you'll never know if the prophet knows!

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Re: Please, I beg you, don't go to the Temple of Death

Post by cwald »

Shulem wrote:
Mon Jul 27, 2020 11:25 am
With that said, I'm pretty confident there will be some MAJOR changes to the endowment ceremony as a result of the Covid-19 pandemic. I'm willing to entertain the idea that hand touching between patrons during the ceremony will be completely eliminated!

Does anyone else share this view?

Regardless, there will be changes coming and hand touching will be modified or lessened to some degree if not completely.

It's going to be exiting to watch J Smith's Masonic Endowment ritual morph into something new. Things will change so much that Smith wouldn't recognize the endowment to be his own should he come back to visit the modern Mormon Church. Besides, polygamists are not welcomed.
If you can't touch...well that alone is a MAJOR change That is huge! Signs of the nail and all? Passing through the veil? I mean...never mind. Discuss it in Tel Kingdom.

I don't think Joseph Smith would recognize the ceremony today, even before Covid. I first went through the temple in 1989 and went two years on a mission...no temple. When I went back through in 1991, I DIDN'T RECOGNIZE THE CEREMONY! I thought I was in a different church! They took out SO much of what the temple was all about. I was dumbfounded with the changes and just could not rap my head around the fact the church had meddled and changed so much of the most important and ancient salvation doctrines and rituals just for PR reasons.

My contention, if the church leaders can change all that stuff...the most important aspect of Mormon Celestial Kingdom rituals, ordinances, signs and penalties, at a drop of the hat, the great apostasy could never have happened.
"Jesus gave us the gospel, but Satan invented church. It takes serious evil to formalize faith into something tedious and then pile guilt on anyone who doesn’t participate enthusiastically." - Robert Kirby

Beer makes you feel the way you ought to feel without beer. -- Henry Lawson

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Re: Please, I beg you, don't go to the Temple of Death

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Shulem wrote:
Sun Jul 26, 2020 9:58 pm
cwald wrote:Mormon-speak is a wonderful thing...perfected over a 200 year history of leaders obfuscation and flat out lying. My brother told me in his ward they are going back to church for an hour and the elderly "are invited not to participate." Invited not to participate? isn't that just Mormon-speak for for not allowed in the building?
Yeah, it's a polite way of saying, "ye need not show up".
I think it's worse. I think it is insulting and condescending. Everyone knows exactly what it means, especially outsiders. Why say it like that? Call a spade a spade. "Those 65 and older are at a higher risk are not allowed in the building and cannot attend church service." See how easy that is? And it's not condescending. It just is.

Mormon-speak only works with other Mormons. The rest of us see right through it.
"Jesus gave us the gospel, but Satan invented church. It takes serious evil to formalize faith into something tedious and then pile guilt on anyone who doesn’t participate enthusiastically." - Robert Kirby

Beer makes you feel the way you ought to feel without beer. -- Henry Lawson

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Shulem
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Re: Please, I beg you, don't go to the Temple of Death

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cwald wrote:
Mon Jul 27, 2020 1:31 pm
I first went through the temple in 1989 and went two years on a mission...no temple. When I went back through in 1991, I DIDN'T RECOGNIZE THE CEREMONY! I thought I was in a different church! They took out SO much of what the temple was all about.
It's fascinating that you received your Endowment w/penalties just as you left for your mission only to find out after your mission there were no more penalties -- not even an explanation for what happened to the penalties. That's how it was for all of us. Now you see it, now you don't. No explanations and no reasons given. The Church moved the goal posts without any accountability!

The removal of the penalties is a serious breach in abandoning the original endowment ceremony prescribed by the prophet of the last dispensation. What right do modern Church leaders think they have to supersede the head of the last dispensation? The unauthorized changes show that Church leaders no longer regard Smith's authority in restoring and setting the ordinances in place.

Taking the penalties out of the endowment is like taking the confirmation out of baptism. The oath without the penalty is like water without Spirit -- it's half a baptism! Likewise, an oath without consequences is half a promise.

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Re: Please, I beg you, don't go to the Temple of Death

Post by cwald »

Shulem wrote:
Mon Jul 27, 2020 2:57 pm
...The unauthorized changes show that Church leaders no longer regard Smith's authority in restoring and setting the ordinances in place.

Taking the penalties out of the endowment is like taking the confirmation out of baptism. The oath without the penalty is like water without Spirit -- it's half a baptism! Likewise, an oath without consequences is half a promise.
The church is in apostasy. They've done pretty well the exact same thing folks like Talmage and McKonkie accused the Catholic Church of doing which required this whole "restoration" fiasco to begin with.
"Jesus gave us the gospel, but Satan invented church. It takes serious evil to formalize faith into something tedious and then pile guilt on anyone who doesn’t participate enthusiastically." - Robert Kirby

Beer makes you feel the way you ought to feel without beer. -- Henry Lawson

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