Did Allen Wyatt Get 'Demoted' at Interpreter?

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Re: Did Allen Wyatt Get 'Demoted' at Interpreter?

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Doctor Scratch wrote:
Thu Jul 23, 2020 10:37 pm
Dr Exiled wrote:
Wed Jul 22, 2020 10:03 pm
Doctor Scratch, Coach P doesn't want to admit your influence, doesn't want to admit the mistake of hiring a "less than" in their eyes, once you pointed that out. It's so obvious, even to the underling worshipers over at sic et non.
You may be right. Did you see this post? Especially this passage?:
Sic et Non wrote:We drive along in our private vehicle. The places where we’re staying have undertaken extraordinary new sanitation measures. We don’t eat in restaurants; we get take-out or drive-through or, more commonly, we prepare our own food to eat at home or out at a picnic spot. Much is closed down, or heavily regulated. We wear masks when in public. We wash and sanitize our hands several times a day. I look back now and wonder why it had never previously occurred to me to sanitize my hands after pumping gas. For all I knew, the preceding customer was carrying the flu or the black plague. That’s a habit that I intend to continue even after the departure of COVID-19 (assuming that it will someday depart).
This is him attempting to defend himself against my criticisms that he's been irresponsible by taking a vacation during the pandemic. It is a pretty weak answer. The better answer would be one in which he justifies why his vacation was "necessary." (I already know the answer, by the way.)
I'd like to see him try to justify his trip as being "necessary." It obviously seems at odds with his continual demands to take Covid-19 seriously. But, hey, we get to hear his commentary on how Colorado is doing better than Utah. What would his acolytes do without their coach?
"Religion is about providing human community in the guise of solving problems that don’t exist or failing to solve problems that do and seeking to reconcile these contradictions and conceal the failures in bogus explanations otherwise known as theology." - Kishkumen 

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Re: Did Allen Wyatt Get 'Demoted' at Interpreter?

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It's Friday, which means that, sure enough, a new blog entry has been posted at "Mormon Interpreter." It also means that, sure enough, there is no mention whatsoever--no "thank you" or nothing--of Allen Wyatt on “Sic et Non.” I guess his free labor doesn’t even merit a “thanks.” Quite telling.
"[I]f, while hoping that everybody else will be honest and so forth, I can personally prosper through unethical and immoral acts without being detected and without risk, why should I not?." --Daniel Peterson, 6/4/14

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Re: Did Allen Wyatt Get 'Demoted' at Interpreter?

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Another announcement about another "Mormon Interpreter" blog posting, and guess what? No mention of Allen Wyatt.
"[I]f, while hoping that everybody else will be honest and so forth, I can personally prosper through unethical and immoral acts without being detected and without risk, why should I not?." --Daniel Peterson, 6/4/14

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Re: Did Allen Wyatt Get 'Demoted' at Interpreter?

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Well it certainly appears that Allen has been demoted or further marginalized. Under Allen’s watch, the Interpreter has been the laughing stock among LDS scholars and many members alike. There have been some major blunders.

I don’t know much about Jeff Lindsay, except that there was a thread about him a couple of years ago regarding his article published in the Interpreter. IIRC, the article was about some Chinese science fiction novel and how it related to Mormon doctrine. Bizarre.

I guess that doesn’t give me much hope things will be more “scholarly” under Jeff’s stewardship.
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Re: Did Allen Wyatt Get 'Demoted' at Interpreter?

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Everybody Wang Chung wrote:
Sun Jul 26, 2020 4:20 pm
Well it certainly appears that Allen has been demoted or further marginalized. Under Allen’s watch, the Interpreter has been the laughing stock among LDS scholars and many members alike. There have been some major blunders.

I don’t know much about Jeff Lindsay, except that there was a thread about him a couple of years ago regarding his article published in the Interpreter. IIRC, the article was about some Chinese science fiction novel and how it related to Mormon doctrine. Bizarre.

I guess that doesn’t give me much hope things will be more “scholarly” under Jeff’s stewardship.
I don't know where a journal about a religion that believes in magic rocks can go as far as "scholarship." The Dales' piece was classic Interpreter nonsense. I guess it's hard when every one of Mormonism's claims is devoid of proof and the mothership of christianity isn't any better. I've read some of Jeff Lindsay's stuff and it is just his take on whatever the apologists have been putting out for years. Nothing new. He seems to like gaslighting like the rest of them. Perhaps Mr. Wyatt would do well to move on before DCP re-enacts the 2012 MI firing, except with DCP playing the "evil villain" this time.
"Religion is about providing human community in the guise of solving problems that don’t exist or failing to solve problems that do and seeking to reconcile these contradictions and conceal the failures in bogus explanations otherwise known as theology." - Kishkumen 

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Re: Did Allen Wyatt Get 'Demoted' at Interpreter?

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Everybody Wang Chung wrote:
Sun Jul 26, 2020 4:20 pm
Well it certainly appears that Allen has been demoted or further marginalized. Under Allen’s watch, the Interpreter has been the laughing stock among LDS scholars and many members alike. There have been some major blunders.
True. But I also think it's important to point out that Peterson was responsible to putting Wyatt in the role. Why would he think that somebody devoid of a Ph.D. was the right choice for the job? What does that tell you about his judgment, and his priorities?
I don’t know much about Jeff Lindsay, except that there was a thread about him a couple of years ago regarding his article published in the Interpreter. IIRC, the article was about some Chinese science fiction novel and how it related to Mormon doctrine. Bizarre.

I guess that doesn’t give me much hope things will be more “scholarly” under Jeff’s stewardship.
Yes. We'll have to wait and see. I think these guys are basically just "padding" for DCP. I.e., that the hope is that they will get stuck with the blame for whatever crap "Interpreter" puts out.
"[I]f, while hoping that everybody else will be honest and so forth, I can personally prosper through unethical and immoral acts without being detected and without risk, why should I not?." --Daniel Peterson, 6/4/14

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Re: Did Allen Wyatt Get 'Demoted' at Interpreter?

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Everybody Wang Chung wrote:
Sun Jul 26, 2020 4:20 pm
I don’t know much about Jeff Lindsay, except that there was a thread about him a couple of years ago regarding his article published in the Interpreter. IIRC, the article was about some Chinese science fiction novel and how it related to Mormon doctrine. Bizarre.
I thought working Liu Cixin's The Three-Body Problem into an article relating to Mormonism was extremely clever. Jeff Lindsay's China experience could open up the Interpreter realm of consciousness in many ways and draw it away from flinging dead cows with a trebuchet.
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Re: Did Allen Wyatt Get 'Demoted' at Interpreter?

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Everybody Wang Chung wrote:
Sun Jul 26, 2020 4:20 pm
I don’t know much about Jeff Lindsay, except that there was a thread about him a couple of years ago regarding his article published in the Interpreter. IIRC, the article was about some Chinese science fiction novel and how it related to Mormon doctrine. Bizarre.

I guess that doesn’t give me much hope things will be more “scholarly” under Jeff’s stewardship.
Some of Lindsay's claims have been criticized.[10] For example, Richard Abanes, a writer critical of Mormonism, refers to Lindsay's work as "numerous self-published articles, not scholarly, extremely biased, articles often based on misinformation".[11] Some LDS people also disagree with some of Lindsay's viewpoints.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeff_Lindsay_(engineer)

Self published, not scholarly, extremely biased, based on misinformation...he sounds perfect for the job.

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Re: Did Allen Wyatt Get 'Demoted' at Interpreter?

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My "Spidey Sense" is tingling. Look: I just have to be honest and speak my mind. If Allen Wyatt abandons the Mopologists, it will be *the* most significant defection in the history of Mopologetics. More important than Hauglid. More important that Kerry Shirts. More important than Kevin Graham. That's how pivotal Wyatt is in this whole narrative--I hope that he realizes that. And if he were to go full-on "turncoat" and reveal all their secrets? Wow. He would be the toast of the Mormon podcast circuit! He could probably drum up a sizable readership for a tell-all biography: something that would earn far, far more money than the measly sum that his "more than 60 books" have returned.

I guess he's going to have to think long and hard about how much his loyalty to the Mopologists is worth.
"[I]f, while hoping that everybody else will be honest and so forth, I can personally prosper through unethical and immoral acts without being detected and without risk, why should I not?." --Daniel Peterson, 6/4/14

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Re: Did Allen Wyatt Get 'Demoted' at Interpreter?

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As expected, a new “article” (about Joseph Smith taking psychedelics, no less) was posted to the “Interpreter” blog today. Also as expected, there was no public mention nor thanks expressed for Allen Wyatt’s role in overseeing this publication. By my admittedly casual count, this is the third or fourth week in a row in which he hasn’t been publicly acknowledged or thanked.
"[I]f, while hoping that everybody else will be honest and so forth, I can personally prosper through unethical and immoral acts without being detected and without risk, why should I not?." --Daniel Peterson, 6/4/14

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Re: Did Allen Wyatt Get 'Demoted' at Interpreter?

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Hey, what do you know? Allen Wyatt actually got a "thank you" today:
Sic et Non wrote:We’re just back from a catered dinner party at which the volume was presented to Stephen. I’m delighted to say that, somehow, we kept the whole thing entirely secret from him. He thought that he was coming to an “adults dinner” for his annual family reunion. We held the gathering in a park in Provo, outdoors, under a pavilion, masked except when we were actually eating and drinking, physically distanced from each other. Not how we had imagined it, but it still went well. (Thanks to Allen Wyatt for seeing to the printing up in Wyoming and driving the finished books down to Utah Valley.)
Interesting that, even with the "thank you," DCP is also implicating Wyatt in participating in this epidemiologically inadvisable event. (How many people were at this gathering?)
"[I]f, while hoping that everybody else will be honest and so forth, I can personally prosper through unethical and immoral acts without being detected and without risk, why should I not?." --Daniel Peterson, 6/4/14

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Re: Did Allen Wyatt Get 'Demoted' at Interpreter?

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Doctor Scratch wrote:
Thu Aug 06, 2020 9:56 pm
Hey, what do you know? Allen Wyatt actually got a "thank you" today:
Sic et Non wrote:We’re just back from a catered dinner party at which the volume was presented to Stephen. I’m delighted to say that, somehow, we kept the whole thing entirely secret from him. He thought that he was coming to an “adults dinner” for his annual family reunion. We held the gathering in a park in Provo, outdoors, under a pavilion, masked except when we were actually eating and drinking, physically distanced from each other. Not how we had imagined it, but it still went well. (Thanks to Allen Wyatt for seeing to the printing up in Wyoming and driving the finished books down to Utah Valley.)
Interesting that, even with the "thank you," DCP is also implicating Wyatt in participating in this epidemiologically inadvisable event. (How many people were at this gathering?)
Alan Wyatt drove to Wyoming and then to Utah Valley during the current pandemic just to hand deliver a few books?

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Re: Did Allen Wyatt Get 'Demoted' at Interpreter?

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I'm sad to report that, even though there was the usual Friday announcement about a new "Interpreter" article, there was no mention whatsoever--nor any "Thank you"--for Allen Wyatt. It may be because this weeks article was authored by Dr. Peterson himself, so I assume that no peer review was utilized this time around.
"[I]f, while hoping that everybody else will be honest and so forth, I can personally prosper through unethical and immoral acts without being detected and without risk, why should I not?." --Daniel Peterson, 6/4/14

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Re: Did Allen Wyatt Get 'Demoted' at Interpreter?

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I have a question wrote:
Fri Aug 07, 2020 2:37 am
Doctor Scratch wrote:
Thu Aug 06, 2020 9:56 pm
Hey, what do you know? Allen Wyatt actually got a "thank you" today:



Interesting that, even with the "thank you," DCP is also implicating Wyatt in participating in this epidemiologically inadvisable event. (How many people were at this gathering?)
Alan Wyatt drove to Wyoming and then to Utah Valley during the current pandemic just to hand deliver a few books?
Yes. Once again he is being cast in the role of the "toady." He put his own life at risk in order to do this: i.e., deliver books celebrating somebody else.
"[I]f, while hoping that everybody else will be honest and so forth, I can personally prosper through unethical and immoral acts without being detected and without risk, why should I not?." --Daniel Peterson, 6/4/14

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Re: Did Allen Wyatt Get 'Demoted' at Interpreter?

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Doctor Scratch wrote: I'm sad to report that, even though there was the usual Friday announcement about a new "Interpreter" article, there was no mention whatsoever--nor any "Thank you"--for Allen Wyatt. It may be because this weeks article was authored by Dr. Peterson himself, so I assume that no peer review was utilized this time around.
Because the author of the article heaped such praise upon himself for writing what one from the junior tier called a "devotional piece" (as opposed to real scholarship), I checked it out to see if it was really as "nice" as it had been billed.

"There is no greater sense of peace, security, and assurance than in knowing how the play ends — that, in the old sense of the word, it’s a comedy with a happy ending, not a tragedy — knowing that our team will win the game and that the good guys will win the war, knowing that evil will fail and be defeated, knowing that, if we’re on the Lord’s side, his certain victory will be ours, as well."

A little desperate to win, aren't we? Okay, but I suppose you can't fault anyone for hoping the "good guys" win. Well, how many people aside from the most broken and deranged hope that the "bad guys" win? It's not really saying much to hope the good guys win. The difficulty is in figuring out who the good guys are and who the bad guys are. And so for the sake of this article, who are the good guys and who are the bad?

The author is very careful to draw the lines.

"God will be involved. It won’t be mere chaos; He will be in charge. And those who align themselves with God will, in the end, be safe and secure and blessed."

Those who "align themselves" -- meaning those of 'belief' and 'faith' -- are the ones who are safe and blessed, and therefore, given the sharp contrast of the article, they must also be the "good guys" who win. And that can only mean, the bad guys are those who don't "align themselves" with God.

Well, who doesn't align themselves with God? Naturally, people who don't believe in God. People like Gemli, Richard Dawkins, and secular critics who the author currently despises.

You might think: Can you really write a devotional piece any other way? Well yes, you could. For instance, God himself could be allowed to "be in charge". Suppose "grace" were a factor. In that worldview, God could give hope or peace to someone like Gemli who hasn't aligned himself with God.
Lou Midgley 08/20/2020: "...meat wad," and "cockroach" are pithy descriptions of human beings used by gemli? They were not fashioned by Professor Peterson.

LM 11/23/2018: one can explain away the soul of human beings...as...a Meat Unit, to use Professor Peterson's clever derogatory description of gemli's ideology.

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Re: Did Allen Wyatt Get 'Demoted' at Interpreter?

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Doctor Scratch wrote:
Thu Aug 06, 2020 9:56 pm
Hey, what do you know? Allen Wyatt actually got a "thank you" today:
Sic et Non wrote:We’re just back from a catered dinner party at which the volume was presented to Stephen. I’m delighted to say that, somehow, we kept the whole thing entirely secret from him. He thought that he was coming to an “adults dinner” for his annual family reunion. We held the gathering in a park in Provo, outdoors, under a pavilion, masked except when we were actually eating and drinking, physically distanced from each other. Not how we had imagined it, but it still went well. (Thanks to Allen Wyatt for seeing to the printing up in Wyoming and driving the finished books down to Utah Valley.)
Interesting that, even with the "thank you," DCP is also implicating Wyatt in participating in this epidemiologically inadvisable event. (How many people were at this gathering?)
I’m left wondering why a book published by The Interpreter Foundation and Religious Education, Brigham Young University is being printed in Wyoming. Should Sharon Parq Associates be credited as well?

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Re: Did Allen Wyatt Get 'Demoted' at Interpreter?

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Gadianton wrote:
Sat Aug 08, 2020 8:48 am
Doctor Scratch wrote: I'm sad to report that, even though there was the usual Friday announcement about a new "Interpreter" article, there was no mention whatsoever--nor any "Thank you"--for Allen Wyatt. It may be because this weeks article was authored by Dr. Peterson himself, so I assume that no peer review was utilized this time around.
Because the author of the article heaped such praise upon himself for writing what one from the junior tier called a "devotional piece" (as opposed to real scholarship), I checked it out to see if it was really as "nice" as it had been billed.

"There is no greater sense of peace, security, and assurance than in knowing how the play ends — that, in the old sense of the word, it’s a comedy with a happy ending, not a tragedy — knowing that our team will win the game and that the good guys will win the war, knowing that evil will fail and be defeated, knowing that, if we’re on the Lord’s side, his certain victory will be ours, as well."

A little desperate to win, aren't we? Okay, but I suppose you can't fault anyone for hoping the "good guys" win. Well, how many people aside from the most broken and deranged hope that the "bad guys" win? It's not really saying much to hope the good guys win. The difficulty is in figuring out who the good guys are and who the bad guys are. And so for the sake of this article, who are the good guys and who are the bad?

The author is very careful to draw the lines.

"God will be involved. It won’t be mere chaos; He will be in charge. And those who align themselves with God will, in the end, be safe and secure and blessed."

Those who "align themselves" -- meaning those of 'belief' and 'faith' -- are the ones who are safe and blessed, and therefore, given the sharp contrast of the article, they must also be the "good guys" who win. And that can only mean, the bad guys are those who don't "align themselves" with God.

Well, who doesn't align themselves with God? Naturally, people who don't believe in God. People like Gemli, Richard Dawkins, and secular critics who the author currently despises.

You might think: Can you really write a devotional piece any other way? Well yes, you could. For instance, God himself could be allowed to "be in charge". Suppose "grace" were a factor. In that worldview, God could give hope or peace to someone like Gemli who hasn't aligned himself with God.
Indeed. The mask drops.
"[I]f, while hoping that everybody else will be honest and so forth, I can personally prosper through unethical and immoral acts without being detected and without risk, why should I not?." --Daniel Peterson, 6/4/14

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Re: Did Allen Wyatt Get 'Demoted' at Interpreter?

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"which, over in Bizarro World, has now been transmogrified into an expression of fierce joy at the eventual damnation of Richard Dawkins and of non-believers in general. This is, quite obviously, a grossly mendacious misrepresentation of what I wrote and what I think,"

I think that is a misrepresentation of what I wrote and what I think. I took the matter no farther than the author did, and labeled the players spoken of or implied as "good" or "bad". I said nothing about damnation or joy over damnation. To the point, is my very last sentence:

"In that worldview, God could give hope or peace to someone like Gemli who hasn't aligned himself with God."

The authors essay is about the peace that comes from believing in God. Or is that a grossly mendacious misrepresentation? My point is that in a world where grace is a real factor, God could "take charge" and grant peace to an atheist, and allow an atheist to be comforted even though the atheist didn't "align himself" with God.

This "freeloader problem" doesn't set well with many people of faith, but it is just the kind of thing that would make for actual faith, rather than a heavy mental investment in what's simply good for the person who wants to "win". Put a quarter in and slap the big "God" button, and out comes peace and safety -- something that the other guy who didn't give up his quarter can't have.
Lou Midgley 08/20/2020: "...meat wad," and "cockroach" are pithy descriptions of human beings used by gemli? They were not fashioned by Professor Peterson.

LM 11/23/2018: one can explain away the soul of human beings...as...a Meat Unit, to use Professor Peterson's clever derogatory description of gemli's ideology.

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Re: Did Allen Wyatt Get 'Demoted' at Interpreter?

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Great points, Dr. Robbers. DCP, Midgley, Kiwi, and others are pretty relentless in their ridicule of Gemli: it seems pretty clear that they want him to suffer. But, hey: I guess we're all going to get a slice of that Godly comfort and peace, regardless of whether or not we accept the claims of Mormonism. So you really have to wonder about the motivation behind the (daily) attacks on Gemli.
"[I]f, while hoping that everybody else will be honest and so forth, I can personally prosper through unethical and immoral acts without being detected and without risk, why should I not?." --Daniel Peterson, 6/4/14

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Re: Did Allen Wyatt Get 'Demoted' at Interpreter?

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I have to give the Proprietor a little bit of credit and for clarifying his universalist impulses and quoting LDS authorities who I guess imply that non-believers aren't totally left in the cold. That wasn't really what was at issue, the issue was the peace in the here-and-now God dispenses, but still, it's worth something. It's just nuts in that very thread, Kiwi57 and Lou Midgley go full-on "divisive" and attack Moksha. Dr. Cam documented this elsewhere, but this is where Midgley votes that every call Moksha a "dunce".

Yeah, I'm sure if Jesus were here, he'd say, "Hey that's a great idea Lou, let's put a big dunce cap on Moksha and make fun of him. Ha ha ha!"

I guess I remember the Jesus who said, referring to the Roman soldiers, "forgive them, for they know not what they do."

Unless Mr. Midgley has taken a spear to his side from a critic, he has no grounds for speaking about Moksha the way he does.

P.S. Some new poster called "tav" just showed up and the apologists are having a tough time keeping up. Looks like another banning is in Sic et Non's future?
Lou Midgley 08/20/2020: "...meat wad," and "cockroach" are pithy descriptions of human beings used by gemli? They were not fashioned by Professor Peterson.

LM 11/23/2018: one can explain away the soul of human beings...as...a Meat Unit, to use Professor Peterson's clever derogatory description of gemli's ideology.

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Re: Did Allen Wyatt Get 'Demoted' at Interpreter?

Post by Doctor Scratch »

Man: Wyatt just cannot catch a break! Look at this latest insult:
Proletarius wrote:So what's up with the Interpreter? It's not even Friday.

I thought you guys collapsed like 999 weeks ago.
Daniel Peterson wrote:Somehow, the thing keeps sputtering along. With scarcely any pulse, of course.
The thing is: this might be funny if Peterson was actually running it himself. A little self-deprecating humor is always welcome. But DCP is *not* running it. Wyatt is.
"[I]f, while hoping that everybody else will be honest and so forth, I can personally prosper through unethical and immoral acts without being detected and without risk, why should I not?." --Daniel Peterson, 6/4/14

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