Did Allen Wyatt Get 'Demoted' at Interpreter?

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Doctor Scratch
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Did Allen Wyatt Get 'Demoted' at Interpreter?

Post by Doctor Scratch »

Happy Friday, Friends & Colleagues!

I don't know if you followed some of the recent exchanges on "Faith Promoting Rumor," but noted Mopologist and "Interpreter" Editor-in-Chief Allen Wyatt took quite a drubbing before managing to get a number of posts deleted (posts which he claims were authored by somebody else). Perhaps the reason for the deletions had something to do with the fact that Wyatt does not have a Ph.D.--something that tends to be a real liability in the world of Mopologetics--hence the Mopologists' obsession with symbols of academic status.

Interestingly, today on "Sic et Non," Dr. Peterson included this intriguing announcement:
Sic et Non wrote:The Interpreter Foundation has now been publishing at least one article, and sometimes two or even three, for 417 consecutive weeks, since its founding 418.5 weeks ago. This is beginning to look like some sort of predictable pattern. I’m deeply grateful to all those who have made this possible, and particularly to Bryce Haymond at the first, then Jeff Bradshaw, after him Allen Wyatt, and now Allen Wyatt with the help of Jeff Lindsay. It’s wonderful to work with good people.
Did you catch that last bit? "after him Allen Wyatt, and now Allen Wyatt with the help of Jeff Lindsay. Whoa.... Please correct me if I'm mistaken, but it would appear that Allen Wyatt, who has been the sole Editor-in-Chief seemingly since 2017 at least, has now been forced to work with a Ph.D.-holding partner? Did Wyatt "screw up" somehow? (Such as by posting on FPR?) Or, is this yet another case of the Mopologists' obsession with status, and fearing criticism of Wyatt's lack of a Ph.D., they felt that they needed to bring in Jeff Lindsay, in order to forestall those kinds of criticisms?

Whatever the case may be, it's tempting to read this as a huge slap in the face to Wyatt. It's also worth pointing out that, unless I'm mistaken, this is the first time that Peterson has publicly thanked Wyatt in months. Good luck finding even a cursory mention of Wyatt's efforts over the course of June and May. And yet there is all kinds of praise for "Neville Neville Land," Book of Mormon Central, and other organizations and people. Maybe if Wyatt engaged in the kind of "malevolent stalking" that "Peter Pan" engages in, then he'd earn DCP's respect? Furthermore, Wyatt did not even get his own thank you--DCP lumped him in with all of these other folks! Ouch. Talk about adding insult to injury! I don't know Wyatt puts up with this kind of treatment: he ought to take his ball and go home.

In any event, this would appear to be quite an intriguing development in the world of Mopologetics. Then again, perhaps we'll get some spin-doctored explanation for this on "Sic et Non" in the next day or so. We'll have to wait and see!
Last edited by Doctor Scratch on Fri Jul 17, 2020 3:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Did Allen Wyatt Get 'Demoted' at Interpreter?

Post by Physics Guy »

Snagging Lindsay is a major move for Interpreter however it happened. Jeff is not only one of those acute and articulate people who make you think there might be something to this whole Ph.D. thing. He’s also amazingly patient and polite with people of different opinions, and so scrupulous in ascribing credit for ideas that complete outsiders may start to wonder if there’s something to the Mormon CTR thing as well.

I don’t know anything about Wyatt, but even if he’s every bit as good as Lindsay, so that Lindsay is the second of this caliber, it would be understandable for Interpreter to be proud of about having two in this league. Equal billing with Lindsay can hardly be a demotion for anyone.

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Re: Did Allen Wyatt Get 'Demoted' at Interpreter?

Post by Gadianton »

While I can see Physics Guy's point, I do think that Doctor Scratch is right that something fishy is going on here. If I remember right, during the "Guesser" paper fiasco, Lindsay was totally absent. Given his area of expertise, there is no way in hell he could support a paper like that without engaging in calculated dishonesty. So it will be interesting to see what Interpreter publishes under his watch, as it could potentially say something about the apologist he's chosen to be.

Well, I've digressed. I do think Wyatt hasn't been appreciated and is expected to churn out work for nothing. Yeah, since there's no Ph.D., it should be a privilege, right? Who would he be to make a demand about anything? "Get to work! And go fetch me a cup of hot cocoa! Yah, mule, YAH!"

It's a very strange situation here. I mean, we know that Interpreter really can't support the scriptures with hard evidence and all attempts result in pseudoscience. Having Wyatt as gatekeeper lends deniability to both sides. They can always point to Wyatt's lack of expertise as the reason something got through that shouldn't have. And Wyatt can always say he's doing his best and not an expert -- nobody expects him to know this or that, and so that covers his reputation also. I guess I'm coming back to this point: Lindsay at the helm and a "guesser" paper gets through?
Lou Midgley 08/20/2020: "...meat wad," and "cockroach" are pithy descriptions of human beings used by gemli? They were not fashioned by Professor Peterson.

LM 11/23/2018: one can explain away the soul of human beings...as...a Meat Unit, to use Professor Peterson's clever derogatory description of gemli's ideology.

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Re: Did Allen Wyatt Get 'Demoted' at Interpreter?

Post by Tom »

I’d be interested in seeing some peer review of Dr. Gee’s calculations at the end of his Interpreter article posted today.

“Although unknown as deities in Joseph Smith’s day, the names of four associated idolatrous gods (Elkenah, Libnah, Mahmackrah, and Korash) mentioned in the Book of Abraham are attested anciently. Two of them are known to have connections with the practices attributed to them in the Book of Abraham. The odds of Joseph Smith guessing the names correctly is astronomical.”

https://journal.interpreterfoundation.o ... f-abraham/

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Re: Did Allen Wyatt Get 'Demoted' at Interpreter?

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John Gee
'“Although unknown as deities in Joseph Smith’s day, the names of four associated idolatrous gods (Elkenah, Libnah, Mahmackrah, and Korash) mentioned in the Book of Abraham are attested anciently. Two of them are known to have connections with the practices attributed to them in the Book of Abraham. The odds of Joseph Smith guessing the names correctly is astronomical.”
And I'll bet that as Brian Hauglid in his RFM interview discovered from an actual expert that "Olishem" is "thin gruel" that these other names and words are also. Only Mormons find them odd or authentic. I find that odd.
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Re: Did Allen Wyatt Get 'Demoted' at Interpreter?

Post by Shulem »

Tom wrote:
Fri Jul 17, 2020 5:18 pm
I’d be interested in seeing some peer review of Dr. Gee’s calculations at the end of his Interpreter article posted today.

“Although unknown as deities in Joseph Smith’s day, the names of four associated idolatrous gods (Elkenah, Libnah, Mahmackrah, and Korash) mentioned in the Book of Abraham are attested anciently. Two of them are known to have connections with the practices attributed to them in the Book of Abraham. The odds of Joseph Smith guessing the names correctly is astronomical.”

https://journal.interpreterfoundation.o ... f-abraham/
Don't even get me started about how Joseph Smith couldn't have known! For Christ Jesus, sake! If it was a freaking snake it would have bit him in the ass.

Joseph the translator? Give me a Goddamn break.

The Book of Abraham apologists are nothing but filthy liars. All of them.

____ you, John Gee. Kiss my ____ ass. You mother . . . . .

:evil:

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Re: Did Allen Wyatt Get 'Demoted' at Interpreter?

Post by Lemmie »

Wrong thread

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Re: Did Allen Wyatt Get 'Demoted' at Interpreter?

Post by Tom »

I have to admit that it’s difficult to keep track of the turnover at Interpreter, but I don’t recall hearing that B. Haymond was an editor. Whatever happened to him?

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Re: Did Allen Wyatt Get 'Demoted' at Interpreter?

Post by moksha »

Tom wrote:
Fri Jul 17, 2020 5:18 pm
The odds of Joseph Smith guessing the names correctly is astronomical.”
What are the odds that a BYU professor could cobble together a paper seeking a justification for made-up names?

by the way, was this change in direct response to Dr. Scratch questioning Allen Wyatt's credentials on that Faith Promoting Rumors blog?
Last edited by moksha on Fri Jul 17, 2020 7:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Did Allen Wyatt Get 'Demoted' at Interpreter?

Post by Shulem »

moksha wrote:
Fri Jul 17, 2020 7:17 pm
Tom wrote:
Fri Jul 17, 2020 5:18 pm
The odds of Joseph Smith guessing the names correctly is astronomical.”
What are the odds that a BYU professor could cobble together a paper seeking a justification for made-up names?
Let him/her try this:

Fig. 2. King Pharaoh, whose name is given in the characters above his head.

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Re: Did Allen Wyatt Get 'Demoted' at Interpreter?

Post by Paloma »

What has struck me throughout my awareness from afar of the Mormon apologists associated first with FARMS and then with Interpreter, is the hero worship of figures like Hugh Nibley (especially in the further past) and Daniel Peterson (especially in the near past and present).

See how essential was Bryce Haymond's role in bringing Interpreter to fruition, and just how much hero worship figured into that:
http://www.templestudy.com/2012/08/03/f ... scripture/

And see how William Hamblin did a lion's share of the work at one point, until he got fed up:
https://www.patheos.com/blogs/enigmatic ... terpreter/

It would appear that Daniel Peterson has secured (by dint of intellectual acumen? professional expertise? magnetic personality?) pride of place among the FARMS/Interpreter apologists. (I think there's a reason he's always the ultimate, final speaker at the FAIR conference, no?)

This thread is about Allen Wyatt. I have no idea about him, except there seems to be a pattern of certain people labouring mightily and perhaps thanklessly, while others are in the limelight.
Last edited by Paloma on Sun Jul 19, 2020 2:04 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Did Allen Wyatt Get 'Demoted' at Interpreter?

Post by Kishkumen »

Tom wrote:
Fri Jul 17, 2020 6:28 pm
I have to admit that it’s difficult to keep track of the turnover at Interpreter, but I don’t recall hearing that B. Haymond was an editor. Whatever happened to him?
He and his spouse “stepped away from the Church.” In part he was shocked to find that the current president and prophet does not accept human evolution.
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Re: Did Allen Wyatt Get 'Demoted' at Interpreter?

Post by Everybody Wang Chung »

This was very fascinating. Thank you Dr. Scratch.

Alan Wyatt kind of reminds me of the awkward loner from high school that is willing to takes lots of “good natured” abuse just to fit in.

Part of me feels sorry for Alan. The Mopologists will never completely accept him or consider him an equal no matter how much he wants to belong, unless he gets that Ph.D..
"I'm on paid sabbatical from BYU in exchange for my promise to use this time to finish two books."

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Re: Did Allen Wyatt Get 'Demoted' at Interpreter?

Post by Philo Sofee »

Everybody Wang Chung wrote:
Sat Jul 18, 2020 6:07 pm
This was very fascinating. Thank you Dr. Scratch.

Alan Wyatt kind of reminds me of the awkward loner from high school that is willing to takes lots of “good natured” abuse just to fit in.

Part of me feels sorry for Alan. The Mopologists will never completely accept him or consider him an equal no matter how much he wants to belong, unless he gets that Ph.D..
He will be their eternal servant, imagining that is the height of existence........ so glad I no longer live under that paradigm.......
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Re: Did Allen Wyatt Get 'Demoted' at Interpreter?

Post by Doctor Scratch »

Kishkumen wrote:
Sat Jul 18, 2020 5:24 pm
Tom wrote:
Fri Jul 17, 2020 6:28 pm
I have to admit that it’s difficult to keep track of the turnover at Interpreter, but I don’t recall hearing that B. Haymond was an editor. Whatever happened to him?
He and his spouse “stepped away from the Church.” In part he was shocked to find that the current president and prophet does not accept human evolution.
Yes: he's surfaced from time to time on "Sic et Non" in order to post what I suppose I would characterize as "challenging" posts. And, it appears the he posted a critical comment in response to Gee's latest (silly) essay. Did J. Lindsay really give the go-ahead for that one?
"[I]f, while hoping that everybody else will be honest and so forth, I can personally prosper through unethical and immoral acts without being detected and without risk, why should I not?." --Daniel Peterson, 6/4/14

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Re: Did Allen Wyatt Get 'Demoted' at Interpreter?

Post by Doctor Scratch »

Dup.
Last edited by Doctor Scratch on Sat Jul 18, 2020 9:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"[I]f, while hoping that everybody else will be honest and so forth, I can personally prosper through unethical and immoral acts without being detected and without risk, why should I not?." --Daniel Peterson, 6/4/14

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Re: Did Allen Wyatt Get 'Demoted' at Interpreter?

Post by Doctor Scratch »

moksha wrote:
Fri Jul 17, 2020 7:17 pm
by the way, was this change in direct response to Dr. Scratch questioning Allen Wyatt's credentials on that Faith Promoting Rumors blog?
It certainly seems that way, doesn't it? There is quite a long history of "Interpreter" making changes in response to things that get said here, or by folks who are from here, going clear back to the first blog posts, where Tom pointed out the many typos.
"[I]f, while hoping that everybody else will be honest and so forth, I can personally prosper through unethical and immoral acts without being detected and without risk, why should I not?." --Daniel Peterson, 6/4/14

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Re: Did Allen Wyatt Get 'Demoted' at Interpreter?

Post by Gadianton »

An absolutely devastating observation Paloma. yeah, Hamblin definitely got to sacrifice for the glorification of his commander in chief.
Lou Midgley 08/20/2020: "...meat wad," and "cockroach" are pithy descriptions of human beings used by gemli? They were not fashioned by Professor Peterson.

LM 11/23/2018: one can explain away the soul of human beings...as...a Meat Unit, to use Professor Peterson's clever derogatory description of gemli's ideology.

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Re: Did Allen Wyatt Get 'Demoted' at Interpreter?

Post by Philo Sofee »

Bryce Hammond stepped away from the church?! Is there any more story to this? His experience, dedication for learning through Nibley/FARMS, his emotions and excitement parallel what mine were exactly. I related to his story precisely. To now hear he has stepped away is equally as fascinating. I would like to have a more secure foundation of knowing about it however. Thanks Kish!
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Re: Did Allen Wyatt Get 'Demoted' at Interpreter?

Post by Kishkumen »

Philo Sofee wrote:
Sun Jul 19, 2020 8:18 am
Bryce Hammond stepped away from the church?! Is there any more story to this? His experience, dedication for learning through Nibley/FARMS, his emotions and excitement parallel what mine were exactly. I related to his story precisely. To now hear he has stepped away is equally as fascinating. I would like to have a more secure foundation of knowing about it however. Thanks Kish!
Here is his blog post on evolution:

https://www.thymindoman.com/if-evolutio ... -is-false/

https://www.thymindoman.com/a-radical-r ... istianity/
As you probably know, I’m a former Mormon, but I remain friendly towards Mormons and my former faith. Some people become bitter towards their former faith when they transition away from it, for understandable reasons, but I don’t think this is inevitable or necessary. For a time I passed through a period of severe disillusionment as many do when they have a faith crisis and transition. I couldn’t understand how and why this religion on which I had built my entire worldview could possibly be wrong about anything. For my whole life I had felt it was so right, until it wasn’t, at least for me. My worldview shattered, and I was left to sort through the pieces to try to find truth again.
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Re: Did Allen Wyatt Get 'Demoted' at Interpreter?

Post by Doctor Scratch »

Quite interesting. "Sic et Non" announced today that a new article appeared on the "Interpreter" website, and yet there is no mention whatsoever of the role that Wyatt and/or Lindsay played in overseeing the publication. How hard is it to simply say, "thank you"?

Meanwhile, Midgley is snarling with rage over this rather innocuous quip from Moksha:
Moksha wrote:Never heard of Mormanity before but it looks interesting. I had to Google it. Jeff Lindsay, the blog manager, was getting quite a bit of praise the other day on another board that I frequent.
Midgley wrote:If Moksha were not wholly busy sneering on sic et non at the faith of Latter-day Saints, he would have been very familiar with Jeff Lindsay. It would also have helped him immensely if he actually paid some attention to the contents of Professor Peterson's blog, since he had rather frequently mentioned Jeff Lindsay. Moky Moksha would have discovered that Jeffrey Dean Lindsay is a Vice President of the Interpreter Foundation. He has, for good reasons "recently returned to the United States after almost 9 years in Shanghai, China. Jeff has been providing online materials defending the LDS faith for over twenty years, primarily at JeffLindsay.com and http://mormanity.blogspot.com.
Jeff has a Ph.D. in chemical engineering from BYU and is a US patent agent. He is currently head of R&D and IP for a US consumer product startup, Lume Deodorant. In China he was the Head of Intellectual Property for Asia Pulp and Paper, one of the world’s largest forest product companies. Since 2015, Jeff has been recognized as a leading IP strategist by Intellectual Asset Magazine based on peer input. He is also lead author of Conquering Innovation Fatigue (John Wiley & Sons, 2009). Jeff served a mission in the German speaking Switzerland Zurich Mission. He and his wife Kendra are the parents of four boys and have eleven grandchildren.
(lack of spacing between paragraphs sic)

This would appear to be yet another slap in the face to Allen Wyatt. What are the odds that this will ultimately contribute to him leaving the Church?
"[I]f, while hoping that everybody else will be honest and so forth, I can personally prosper through unethical and immoral acts without being detected and without risk, why should I not?." --Daniel Peterson, 6/4/14

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