Dan Peterson Allows the "N-Word" on "SeN" during Floyd Protests

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Dr LOD
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Re: Dan Peterson Allows the "N-Word" on "SeN" during Floyd Protests

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Kishkumen wrote:
Sun Jun 14, 2020 1:43 pm
Dr LOD wrote:
Fri Jun 12, 2020 10:37 pm
Thanks for saying this so well.

Of my native ancestors about half died due to the Indian Removal period, actions. Of my spouse her people had about a 90% reduction in population due to similar policies and military actions.

About the Tulsa Massacre of 1921. Sometime back I had a nursing home patient who was a survivor when I met him he was 101 years old. He was a famous Jazz Musician. I listened as he gave me his first hand account. I really wish I wrote some of it down. But fortunately his story was recorded somewhere else. If one could put a value on a memory, listening to his stories are some of my most valuable. I’m not sure what he got from that young naïve doctor.
Thank YOU for educating me. What is happening is horrific. And, as you would surely be able to attest, this is not just a case of problems for the ancestors in the past; it is a problem for all of us now. The people who bear the brunt of white crimes against First Nations communities are the First Nations peoples themselves, and then the rest of us. What is happening now should remind us of the tactics used against First Nations peoples protesting the Keystone Pipeline. People opposed the profaning of sacred sites and the ecological damage the pipeline would cause, and their worries were prescient. In November of 2017, the pipeline leaked 407,000 gallons in Amherst, North Dakota. In 2019, 383,000 gallons were spilled in Edinburgh, North Dakota. TC Energy is applying for permits to tap the Cheyenne River, White River, and Bad River.

No one should be fooled by arguments that this stuff was not anticipated or known. People did not want to know. Those in power were moved by money and neo-liberal propaganda. Police and federal authorities used anti-terrorism tactics against people protesting the pipeline.
My mom protested first at Alcatraz in 1970, then later at the DAPL protests three years ago. In between she was a good Mormon housewife, primary president, YW president and RS president. My spouse's father was in AIM (american indian movement) leadership we suspect his death from a suspicious car accident was related to his work there.

One current issue that the systemic racism has a direct effect is the governments response to COVID and NOT helping the tribes take care of their own people. Here is just the latest where the CDC is refusing to share information with Tribal Health authorities with whom the CDC is required by law to provide that information to.

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/06/1 ... ata-314527

The LDS church has stepped up and provided help to the Navajo Nation in particular, which I am thankful for.

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Re: Dan Peterson Allows the "N-Word" on "SeN" during Floyd Protests

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Thank you again for sharing that. Maybe some day you can write a longer memoir covering your recollection of this activism. Or perhaps a history. My uncle Urshel Taylor was a Pima/Ute artist and activist, and I am saddened that I did not know him very well or understand his work when he was still with us. But that is the nature of racism. It even divides family and keeps us ignorant of each other.
"Petition wasn’t meant to start a witch hunt as I’ve said 6000 times." ~ Hanna Seariac, LDS apologist

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Dr LOD
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Re: Dan Peterson Allows the "N-Word" on "SeN" during Floyd Protests

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Kishkumen wrote:
Sun Jun 14, 2020 4:09 pm
Thank you again for sharing that. Maybe some day you can write a longer memoir covering your recollection of this activism. Or perhaps a history. My uncle Urshel Taylor was a Pima/Ute artist and activist, and I am saddened that I did not know him very well or understand his work when he was still with us. But that is the nature of racism. It even divides family and keeps us ignorant of each other.
Someday, I think a book by my wife would be more interesting. She has had conversations with Gina Colvin, and Johanna Brooks about her experiences which range from reservation life to interacting with the Mormon Royalty. I would be a good chapter or two addition to her book.

I too have about a half dozen individuals who have passed away who I wish I would have asked more questions and listened more to their experiences. I look back with some disappointment at a time when many of these individuals were alive and I mistakenly thought that the Lamanite story was their story.

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Re: Dan Peterson Allows the "N-Word" on "SeN" during Floyd Protests

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Consider the sad misunderstanding (or willful neglect) embedded in this comment, and the person who upvoted it:
Kiwi57 wrote:Details, schmetails. You look like the guys who owned slaves, therefore you personally owe reparations to everyone who looks like the people who were slaves. This is called "social justice," and if you don't like it, that just proves that you're a racist.

https://www.patheos.com/blogs/danpeters ... 4955269156

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Re: Dan Peterson Allows the "N-Word" on "SeN" during Floyd Protests

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Dr Moore wrote:
Mon Jun 15, 2020 6:03 pm
Consider the sad misunderstanding (or willful neglect) embedded in this comment, and the person who upvoted it:
Kiwi57 wrote:Details, schmetails. You look like the guys who owned slaves, therefore you personally owe reparations to everyone who looks like the people who were slaves. This is called "social justice," and if you don't like it, that just proves that you're a racist.

https://www.patheos.com/blogs/danpeters ... 4955269156
If, Kiwi57 lived in the days of Joseph Smith and his instructions were to scrape off the nose of Anubis and call him a slave, would he?

If, Kiwi57 lived in the days of Brigham Young and his instructions were to hang the negro, would he?

I think, Kiwi57, is a racist and that he would commit murder under the orders of Brigham Young. He'd kill Anubis too. Why? Because he has the spirit of murder in his heart as does Daniel F Peterson. They are spiritual murderers having denied the spirit of right and truth. They are like sons of perdition. These Mormon apologists are evil people and pollute the earth with their filthiness. They live in their lies and deny the truth openly!

Yes, Kiwi57, would happily slit Abubis's throat. Isn't that right, Kiwi57 -- you ____?

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Re: Dan Peterson Allows the "N-Word" on "SeN" during Floyd Protestsmg

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The world is changing, and while the specific changes needed may not be clear to everyone yet, collective goodness is beginning to crystallize into something more than simply being “not racist.” Those willing to self reflect a few minutes on the message conveyed by thousands of protests around the world are beginning to realize that we all must choose to be decidedly “anti racism”.

Kiwi57 and his fellow self proclaimed anti-Mormon bigot hunters should take note and reconsider their sanctimonious parades of self righteous nose snubbing at this issue. Snide mockery of the notion that whites who never owned slaves should do something to lift blacks who were never slaves epitomizes the mocking wrongness of the great and spacious building. Thus very attitude has propagated structural inequality for so long, making a movement like BLM a necessity. So Kiwi57 is welcome to sit around masturbating to his achievements and his earned entitlements, and he’ll likely never realize that his unwillingness to see others through their own eyes IS the root of the problem.

Look at just one piece of news from today as an example of unexpected progress. Github is removing the terms “master/slave”, “whitelist” and “blacklist” from its lexicon, to eliminate insensitive references to slavery. How big a deal is this? Well to some it may be trite or silly. I see it as a big deal and an indication of bigger things to come. Consider this: in control system design, which is a massive horizontal field covering most engineering disciplines, the labels “master” and “slave” are as common as “feedback loop” and “recursion.” Likewise, “whitelisting” and “blacklisting” are among the most basic technical terms in cybersecurity. I’ve used these terms literally hundreds, if not thousands, of times in my career. Never once did I wonder if using these terms made me a racist. But it sure didn’t make me anti-racist, and seeing that now makes me realize other small ways that my attitudes and definitions of fairness may also contribute to the problem.

We can all do something to improve on chronic disadvantage imposed on people of color.

After being willing to stay home for 3 months and incur +20% to the national debt in order to save the lives of unknown millions, predominantly elderly, shouldn’t we be capable and eager, right now, to collectively do a few more uncomfortable things to root out harmful, and deadly, systemic inequity in our society?

I am confident, sad to say, that the church will not lead in this step of social progress. The church will not eliminate racist language from the BofM, and it will not formally apologize for its role in perpetuating racist ideas. The church will not put meaningful dollars to work in poor black communities. It will wait until forced to do anything more than give vapid speeches and over represent photo-ops with the NAACP, because church leaders might not be racists, but they are not yet convinced of the value to being anti-racist, and all that would require.

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Re: Dan Peterson Allows the "N-Word" on "SeN" during Floyd Protests

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The hardcore conservative Mopologists are really getting kicked in the teeth these days: first the protests, and now the Supreme Court has ruled that LGBTQ+ folks cannot be fired due to their sexual orientation.
"[I]f, while hoping that everybody else will be honest and so forth, I can personally prosper through unethical and immoral acts without being detected and without risk, why should I not?." --Daniel Peterson, 6/4/14

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Re: Dan Peterson Allows the "N-Word" on "SeN" during Floyd Protests

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But Jesus is coming back in July 22, or the 27th or some such, so he can straighten out the LGBTQ issue once he goes to the temple and receives his 3rd anointing from the Priesthood totin brethren..... then he will have real authoritah to speak to the merely human Supreme Court. He will straighten em all out using Russell M Nelson as his own mini-me. After all, God never talks to mankind personally when he has a repesentative on earth. That's church doctrine! :rolleyes:
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Re: Dan Peterson Allows the "N-Word" on "SeN" during Floyd Protests

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Dr LOD wrote:
Sun Jun 14, 2020 4:35 pm
Someday, I think a book by my wife would be more interesting. She has had conversations with Gina Colvin, and Johanna Brooks about her experiences which range from reservation life to interacting with the Mormon Royalty. I would be a good chapter or two addition to her book.

I too have about a half dozen individuals who have passed away who I wish I would have asked more questions and listened more to their experiences. I look back with some disappointment at a time when many of these individuals were alive and I mistakenly thought that the Lamanite story was their story.
I hope someday to read that book. It sounds like it would be a valuable account. The loss of others' memories and the regret that brings impresses on us the urgency of making sure we write down ours.
"Petition wasn’t meant to start a witch hunt as I’ve said 6000 times." ~ Hanna Seariac, LDS apologist

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Re: Dan Peterson Allows the "N-Word" on "SeN" during Floyd Protests

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Anyone else shocked?

The historic ban on black males from holding the priesthood in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, also known as Mormons, which lasted until 1978, will get a new designation, the church announced Wednesday, saying the organization recognizes that the origins were based solely on racial stereotypes.

The 150-year-long ban featured a doctrine that God, or Heavenly Father, explicitly forbade the church from bestowing certain priesthood offices and temple rites on blacks.

That picture has changed over time, and in recent years the Salt Lake City, Utah based church replaced the “doctrinal” foundation with an explanation that blends divine policy with incorrect theories, to blunt growing criticism that Mormons had perpetuated a racist stereotype that dated to the days of slavery. Today, church officials said removing the divine source of the practice is part of a prayerfully guided effort by leaders in Salt Lake City, Utah “to correct past mistakes and to make progress toward racial equality.”

“We recognize that the origins of the priesthood ban are solely based on a racial stereotype,” Elder D. Todd Christofferson, a member of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles, said in a press release. “As we work to make progress toward racial equality, we also must take a hard look at our teachings and policies, and ensure they reflect the will of the Lord, even if that means an admission of error.”

Christofferson said the church has worked to “update” its presentation of challenging historical events and practices to be “transparent and open” but it realized some of the changes were insufficient.

The church has faced renewed criticism for perpetuating racist ideals recently, amid protests across the nation and around the world sparked by the death of George Floyd in Minneapolis police custody.

People on social media called out leaders for continuing to use God in rationalizing its racist history, with the topic trending on Twitter.

“It’s time to let go of the errors of men and turn our hearts to hear the voice of Christ and what He would have us represent,” Christofferson, told the “TODAY” show on Wednesday.
Too good to be true? You’re right. It was actually Quaker, killing the Aunt Jemima brand this morning.

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/06/17/aunt-je ... otype.html

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Re: Dan Peterson Allows the "N-Word" on "SeN" during Floyd Protests

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“We recognize that the origins of the priesthood ban are solely based on a racial stereotype,” Elder D. Todd Christofferson, a member of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles, said in a press release. “As we work to make progress toward racial equality, we also must take a hard look at our teachings and policies, and ensure they reflect the will of the Lord, even if that means an admission of error.”
OR:

We recognize that the EXPLANATIONS OF FACSIMILE NO. 3 are solely based on a racial stereotype,” Elder D. Todd Christofferson, a member of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles, said in a press release. “As we work to make progress toward racial equality, we also must take a hard look at our teachings and policies, and ensure they reflect the will of the Lord, even if that means an admission of error.

Image

I'm NOT a slave, I'm a god. Give me my nose back!

:evil:

Black Lives Matter!

NO JUSTICE NO PEACE!

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Shulem
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Re: Dan Peterson Allows the "N-Word" on "SeN" during Floyd Protests

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Book of Mormon horses and Book of Abraham slaves. It's all the same to Daniel F Peterson. He's a racist and a horse lover. (Ain't that right, Moksha?)

He probably laughs at the figure of Anubis in Facsimile No. 3 because Mormons are inherently racist and have no regard or respect for other religions whether ancient or modern, although they pretend to and give lip service. They baptize dead Jews in their temples and mutilate and desecrate the Egyptian gods using sacred Egyptian documents of the Book of the Dead. For shame!

Isn't that right, Dan? You are racist and you are laughing at Anubis? Right?

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Re: Dan Peterson Allows the "N-Word" on "SeN" during Floyd Protests

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Let’s not throw out accusations of racism willy-nilly, please.

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Re: Dan Peterson Allows the "N-Word" on "SeN" during Floyd Protests

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Temp. Admin. wrote:
Wed Jun 17, 2020 2:34 pm
Let’s not throw out accusations of racism willy-nilly, please.
How about the so-called scholars at BYU address the issue of why Joseph Smith labeled the black man in Facsimile No. 3 as a "slave"?

How about Daniel F Peterson address this issue?

Why is the black man in Facsimile No. 3 a slave, Dan? John?

Why?

Answer me.

You see, I think Dan is a racist BECAUSE he doesn't address the issue or publicly question the inspiration of Joseph Smith in falsely slamming a god of Egypt.

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Re: Dan Peterson Allows the "N-Word" on "SeN" during Floyd Protests

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You had me going Dr. Moore. I thought the article was real until the very end.
Lou Midgley 08/20/2020: "...meat wad," and "cockroach" are pithy descriptions of human beings used by gemli? They were not fashioned by Professor Peterson.

LM 11/23/2018: one can explain away the soul of human beings...as...a Meat Unit, to use Professor Peterson's clever derogatory description of gemli's ideology.

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Re: Dan Peterson Allows the "N-Word" on "SeN" during Floyd Protests

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DCP is getting utterly schooled by (of all people) Ideeho over at "Sic et Non":
Ideeho wrote:With respect, I am glad we have laws prohibiting, for example, discrimination on the basis of race or ethnicity. Do we really want a hotelier to tell blacks they cannot let a room because they are black, or asian, or white for that matter, or a real estate developer ban, by way of covenants and deeds, ethiopians or tongans or germans from buying a lot in his or her development? I think it appropriate for the government to set a floor by which certain behavior is prescribed. And for the record, I think there is a constitutional basis for laws such as the Civil Rights Act doing so. I recognize that when we proscribe certain private conduct it creates its own set of issues, but I would rather deal with those issues than the sort of world a non Civil Right Act would entail.
DCP wrote:No, we don't. Certainly I don't.
Ideeho wrote:I suspect good people of all walks of life feel the same. The question then becomes whether we collectively address such private practice by way of law or by some other means. If you think about it, the 13th Amendment, which bans slavery, is also a government law banning a private practice--the owning of another person. The Civil Rights Act, in some ways, can be seen as simply an extension of certain types of private acts we as a society to not want to allow.
DCP wrote:But the owning of other people -- slavery -- is not a "private practice." It is an act of coercion that should be prohibited and punished by law, just like murder and robbery and rape and assault.
Ideeho wrote:I agree. My point was in response to the notion of some that we should only prohibit government discrimination and leave private discrimination alone, at least beyond government action. Slavery, the darkest of America's stains, was in fact private, at least in the sense that the government did not own slaves--slavery was a private practice where slaves were treated as property to be used and disposed of as the slave owner saw fit. Thank goodness the 13th Amendment abolished that. The 13th Amendment is an example of the government banning a practice engaged in by private parties.
DCP wrote:Slavery was not "private." Slave-holding was government-supported and government-enforced and, in the end, government-defended.
Ideeho wrote:In those senses I agree slavery was not private. But fundamentally slavery involved Private persons owning other persons, not the government owning persons or doing the actual discrimination. And in that sense the 13th Amendment’s prohibition against private parties owning persons is qualitatively, from a legal standpoint, not different from The Civil Rights Act telling private businesses you cannot, for example, ban blacks from eating at your establishment. One final thought, until the Civil Rights Act, segregation was also government supported and enforced, at least at the state or local government level.
DCP wrote:It was always fundamentally wrong for one person to own another. The laws permitting, enabling, and enforcing such ownership had to be voided. That's a government action. Slavery was a state-sponsored institution, not a private "free-market" transaction. It's the very antithesis of a free and voluntary private exchange.
Unfortunately, those italics-for-emphasis are not going to save him in this instance. Remember, DCP-the-alleged-Libertarian said this:
I’m also a strong federalist. So, on the whole, the notion of federal anti-discrimination laws doesn’t sit well with me.

And, before someone raises the issue, yes, I do believe that discrimination against Latter-day Saints should be legal. Would I consider it boorish and unfair and even immoral? Yes. Worthy of a boycott? Yes. Irritating and offensive? Yes. But legal.
So, *yes*--he *does* think that, privately, discrimination should be allowed. Of course slavery "was always fundamentally wrong," but firing people over their sexual orientation was always wrong, too. I mean, if your religion tells you that slavery is demanded by God, is it? DCP makes an awfully big mistake when he uses the word "fundamentally," because "fundamentally," Latter-day Saints are supposed to listen to the teachings of the Prophets, and shall we re-examine what Brigham Young said about, e.g., miscegenation? Denying the Priesthood to Black people was "always fundamentally wrong," wasn't it?

At the end of the day, he wants to have it both ways, Orwell-style: "All discrimination is wrong, but some discrimination is more wrong than others, and actually, some discrimination is morally permissible, because God said so." The levels of idiocy over there are astonishing sometimes.
"[I]f, while hoping that everybody else will be honest and so forth, I can personally prosper through unethical and immoral acts without being detected and without risk, why should I not?." --Daniel Peterson, 6/4/14

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Re: Dan Peterson Allows the "N-Word" on "SeN" during Floyd Protests

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Shulem wrote:
Mon Jun 15, 2020 6:30 pm
Yes, Kiwi57, would happily slit Abubis's throat. Isn't that right, Kiwi57 -- you ____?
What if it was a fair knife fight between Kiwi and Anubis, Mano a Egyptian God? Could the cunning of Anubis match the sheer rage of Kiwi? Would Kiwi's known associates be ringside armed with some sharp ellipses to throw into the ring?
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Shulem
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Re: Dan Peterson Allows the "N-Word" on "SeN" during Floyd Protests

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Doctor Scratch wrote:DCP makes an awfully big mistake when he uses the word "fundamentally," because "fundamentally," Latter-day Saints are supposed to listen to the teachings of the Prophets, and shall we re-examine what Brigham Young said about, e.g., miscegenation? Denying the Priesthood to Black people was "always fundamentally wrong," wasn't it?
As far as Brigham Young was concerned the priesthood ban was NOT fundamentally wrong but was fundamentally right because that was the will of the Lord at the time. Same goes for all the succeeding Presidents until President Kimball was forced to make the shift due to political constraints placed upon him.

Indeed, DCP made a mistake in choosing that word. In doing so he condemns the Lord.

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Shulem
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Re: Dan Peterson Allows the "N-Word" on "SeN" during Floyd Protests

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Slavery was an argument for American politicians during the revolution and thereafter leading up to the American Civil War. What do do about slavery? What did the bible have to say? Did the bible condemn slavery or did it provide means to practice it justly? That was the argument.

When I think about it, there are lots of things fundamentally wrong about bible doctrines and practices. Animal sacrifice? I see that as fundamentally wrong! It's barbaric and crude. Even St. Paul confessed that taking the life of animals can never take away man's sins. Neither can killing some Jew who happened to think he was better than everyone else. The New Testament is just as stupid as the Old.

As far as I'm concerned, and I think billions of people on this planet agree; Jehovah was fundamentally wrong.

There. That settles that. I win. DCP looses, again.

What's the king's name, Dan?

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Re: Dan Peterson Allows the "N-Word" on "SeN" during Floyd Protests

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DCP wrote:But the owning of other people -- slavery -- is not a "private practice." It is an act of coercion that should be prohibited and punished by law, just like murder and robbery and rape and assault.
I'm afraid that the bible doesn't teach that. The bible itself, both Testaments, provide means with dealing in the practice of slavery as if it's just a part of life that the people are subject too.

Where in the bible does the Lord put slavery on par with murder, robbery, rape, and assault?

Who made DCP the LORD?

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Re: Dan Peterson Allows the "N-Word" on "SeN" during Floyd Protests

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The bible was certainly not a good book when it came to condemning slavery accept in the case of the Egyptians owning the Hebrews. Pretty much, slavery was an institution that was practiced in many places and in many times.

The bible prophecy in the Book of Revelation concerning "slaves" is way off the mark. Slavery, for all intents and purposes is a thing of the past. It's not part of modern day living and is not an institution under governments.

So why does bible prophecy falsely predict the future as if the world has many slaves today? Why? Because the bible was wrong. The vision of St John was false and probably written while smoking opium.
Rev 6:15 wrote:And the kings of the earth, the great men, the rich men, the commanders, the mighty men, every slave and every free man, hid themselves in the caves and in the rocks of the mountains
Rev 13:16 wrote:He causes all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on their right hand or on their foreheads,
There are no slaves in modern times. The revelation of St. John is fundamentally wrong. It's false prophecy and will never come to pass. Likewise, Jesus is never coming back and the latter-days will continue for thousands of years.

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