Blake Ostler Erupts with Rage on FPR

The catch-all forum for general topics and debates. Minimal moderation. Rated PG to PG-13.
User avatar
Shulem
Son of Perdition
Posts: 11922
Joined: Thu Jun 30, 2011 7:48 pm

Re: Blake Ostler Erupts with Rage on FPR

Post by Shulem »

Kishkumen wrote:
Well, it seems to me that the number of jerk apologists is pretty low. You have a core of classic-FARMS jerks, a few more in their orbit, and then their jerky fan club. And, to be fair, even the people who behave like jerks when they do apologetics are not always in that mode. But yes, when they are in that mode, and they show up to comment on something, they tend to look pretty bad. But so too, however, do many of us look bad when we are blowing off steam about Mormonism. There are definitely ex-Mo counterparts to these jerks. And, just as you hear that apologist so and so is really a great guy in person, I am sure the same is true of some highly abrasive ex-Mos.


Right. The apologists however are supposed to be Christlike in everything they do and say. They are supposed to be Christians, whatever that is. More is expected of them when it comes to online behavior because they are the ones that say "look at our true church and we have the Spirit". So there you have it. They need to be on their best behavior as they continue to work their way to heaven. Us, on the other hand are going to heaven automatically (assuming there is one) because assuming there is a God he is gracious and loving, nothing like the apologists.

Life is wonderful. It's so liberating to be free from bondage of the church. It was a nightmare and it's over now but I still have those memories. That sets me off at times, just remembering how I was a slave to that institution. It makes me mad. And yes, when the church tried to stop gay marriage it really made me mad. I'm sure you can understand that. I just can't forgive the church for that and I want to hit back, hard.

User avatar
Shulem
Son of Perdition
Posts: 11922
Joined: Thu Jun 30, 2011 7:48 pm

Re: Blake Ostler Erupts with Rage on FPR

Post by Shulem »

Philo Sofee wrote:For some reason apologetics now appears to me to being tough, meaning, harsh, meaning mean spirited for most of the time. I guess perhaps they think they come across as being valiant when their peers read them and so its ok to be verbally abusive... What they fail to see is how they look to all others. And until the brethren rein them in, the social problems of people leaving are going to continue. No one wants to be part of a crowd that is so high and mighty arrogant, and so rude and gruff with others. For whatever reason, the apologists simply cannot grasp how they look to the world when they are trying to defend their Gospel.


It's frustrating and difficult for apologists to defend the truth claims, moreover the Book of Mormon and Book of Abraham are becoming increasingly difficult to defend as the counter arguments have intensified and matured into rock solid arguments. Who wants to defend the Book of Abraham? John Gee doesn't want to talk about it. Nobody does, well, perhaps Ed Goble does because he's grasping through his last straw, which is a very long straw indeed.

The apologists are angry because they are under attack and constantly being reminded how terrible their arguments are. What Book of Abraham apologist wants to have to answer for the horrible Explanations of Facsimile No. 3? None of them do! It's a bloody nightmare and it's frustrating. Even William Schryver is on record for saying he would be happy enough to see the Facsimiles just go away. It's embarrassing to have to defend Mormonism. Everything from polygamy to Book of Mormon anachronisms constantly grinds away at one's faith. They get angry when we remind them about how bad it is.

User avatar
moksha
God
Posts: 22387
Joined: Fri Oct 27, 2006 2:42 pm

Re: Blake Ostler Erupts with Rage on FPR

Post by moksha »

Any chance Blake Ostler was right and Dr. Midgley's recent posts have been from beyond the veil or at least partially translated?
Cry Heaven and let loose the Penguins of Peace

User avatar
Gadianton
Hermit
Posts: 9926
Joined: Fri Jul 06, 2007 11:12 pm

Re: Blake Ostler Erupts with Rage on FPR

Post by Gadianton »

There are definitely ex-Mo counterparts to these jerks.


True, Reverend. I'm sure there are blogs and boards out there with angry players on both sides none of us have heard of before.

There is just one detail that makes it different for the apologists we cross paths with occasionally. Ultimately, they are connected to the Church leadership at "the highest levels", and have done their work -- and it would seem thanks to certain recent revelations in a comment section out there, their dirtiest work -- at the direction of the Brethren. Perhaps not at the direction of a unified body of Brethren, as we might speculate, but the way they tell it, they've always had the full endorsement of the Church, and continue to do so. Even now, at least one GA appraises them of efforts to pull the plug on the new MI.

Name calling is always bad, but name calling and self-aggrandizement backed by a multi-billion dollar corporate face will always trigger public outrage. Gemli had some pretty good insights to that one day, as the fuming cantankerous cursed the "fake doctors" crowding their sacred comment section.
Lou Midgley 08/20/2020: "...meat wad," and "cockroach" are pithy descriptions of human beings used by gemli? They were not fashioned by Professor Peterson.

LM 11/23/2018: one can explain away the soul of human beings...as...a Meat Unit, to use Professor Peterson's clever derogatory description of gemli's ideology.

User avatar
Kishkumen
Seedy Academician
Posts: 21282
Joined: Sat Dec 13, 2008 4:00 pm

Re: Blake Ostler Erupts with Rage on FPR

Post by Kishkumen »

Shulem wrote:Right. The apologists however are supposed to be Christlike in everything they do and say. They are supposed to be Christians, whatever that is. More is expected of them when it comes to online behavior because they are the ones that say "look at our true church and we have the Spirit". So there you have it. They need to be on their best behavior as they continue to work their way to heaven. Us, on the other hand are going to heaven automatically (assuming there is one) because assuming there is a God he is gracious and loving, nothing like the apologists.


I am very sympathetic to that point of view. Of course, Jesus sometimes seems like a real jerk too. We just have a real saccharine view of him that, for some people, is centered around Jesus the gentle lamb who saved a fly with a broken wing. There is also the angry Jesus who promised to break up families and chased money changers out of the temple. All I am saying here is that it is possible to understand why the apologists feel justified in their very human reaction to attacks on their cherished beliefs.

Shulem wrote:Life is wonderful. It's so liberating to be free from bondage of the church. It was a nightmare and it's over now but I still have those memories. That sets me off at times, just remembering how I was a slave to that institution. It makes me mad. And yes, when the church tried to stop gay marriage it really made me mad. I'm sure you can understand that. I just can't forgive the church for that and I want to hit back, hard.


Indeed! Yes, I see that. And I hope you don't think I am trying to dump on you personally here. What I am saying is that Smoot is a human being who is upset about the CES Letter and ex-mormon reddit and he wants to hit back. Yes, the LDS Church is the institution he is ultimately defending, but I am sure he also feels that he is defending people who have testimonies, love the Church, and are hurt when people attack it. Smoot imagines that some of these people who end up on ex-mormon reddit could have been happy members of the LDS Church if only they had read the right things and processed them in the right way. He is going to fight that fight, and you and I are not going to like the way he does it.

That's the way it is, and I just want to look at it with clear eyes to the extent that I am able.
"Petition wasn’t meant to start a witch hunt as I’ve said 6000 times." ~ Hanna Seariac, LDS apologist

User avatar
Kishkumen
Seedy Academician
Posts: 21282
Joined: Sat Dec 13, 2008 4:00 pm

Re: Blake Ostler Erupts with Rage on FPR

Post by Kishkumen »

Gadianton wrote:There is just one detail that makes it different for the apologists we cross paths with occasionally. Ultimately, they are connected to the Church leadership at "the highest levels", and have done their work -- and it would seem thanks to certain recent revelations in a comment section out there, their dirtiest work -- at the direction of the Brethren. Perhaps not at the direction of a unified body of Brethren, as we might speculate, but the way they tell it, they've always had the full endorsement of the Church, and continue to do so. Even now, at least one GA appraises them of efforts to pull the plug on the new MI.

Name calling is always bad, but name calling and self-aggrandizement backed by a multi-billion dollar corporate face will always trigger public outrage. Gemli had some pretty good insights to that one day, as the fuming cantankerous cursed the "fake doctors" crowding their sacred comment section.


Yep. I resonate with your perspective on this, Gad. You know, I can't for the life of me understand how anyone could have voted for Trump, and I understand much less how any decent person could continue to support Trump at this point. It is possible, although I do not want it to be true, that some people lack the ability to see the problems with Trump. I don't think that reflects well on them. My opinion.

For the reasons you lay out above, I don't really understand Smoot. That said, there are other ways of looking at this. The Mopologists, you see, are among those who know the GAs as real people who say and do virtuous things. From their perspective, our criticisms of the GAs are baffling in the extreme. We are the carpers, cavilers, and critics of good men. The apologists obviously, by their own admission, do not see the Church as a faceless corporation. They see honorable and lovable grandpa type guys who stand up for helping the poor, doing the right thing, and testifying of Jesus Christ.

So our view is, to them, a monstrous distortion of the truth. Faceless corporation? How could that be? Evil designs to control and suppress others? No! A mission to save all humankind! To lighten the load of the suffering. You and I have it all wrong, Gad. If only we could see the truth, namely, that the LDS Church has the keys, and the authority from God, to save all of the children of God eternally and make them supernally blissful forever.

And you and I are attempting to spoil that. We are hurting good people who are striving for that eternal happiness in God's presence. Just sitting here having this conversation, we endanger some poor soul who clicks on the wrong link after a Google search. What if that person read something here that led them astray, that imperiled their eternal blessings?

If you really believe all of that, then I don't think you will have any compunction about portraying certain apostates as Smoot did in his allegory. And your friends engaged in the same important fight will pat you on the back. And the GAs will support your efforts in whatever way they can, without appearing to punch down themselves.
"Petition wasn’t meant to start a witch hunt as I’ve said 6000 times." ~ Hanna Seariac, LDS apologist

Lemmie
God
Posts: 10590
Joined: Sun Apr 05, 2015 1:25 pm

Re: Blake Ostler Erupts with Rage on FPR

Post by Lemmie »

Blake
SEPTEMBER 13, 2019 AT 11:12 AM

The personal attacks tell me all that I need to know about you cowards hiding behind anonymous posts. But I have the resources to find out who you are — and I will.

And then what? What's the point of making threats like this?

User avatar
Doctor Steuss
God
Posts: 4595
Joined: Fri Feb 09, 2007 12:57 pm

Re: Blake Ostler Erupts with Rage on FPR

Post by Doctor Steuss »

Lemmie wrote:
Blake
SEPTEMBER 13, 2019 AT 11:12 AM

The personal attacks tell me all that I need to know about you cowards hiding behind anonymous posts. But I have the resources to find out who you are — and I will.

And then what? What's the point of making threats like this?

He's going to tell their moms that they're being mean.
"Some people never go crazy. What truly horrible lives they must lead." ~Charles Bukowski

User avatar
Shulem
Son of Perdition
Posts: 11922
Joined: Thu Jun 30, 2011 7:48 pm

Re: Blake Ostler Erupts with Rage on FPR

Post by Shulem »

Lemmie wrote:
Blake
SEPTEMBER 13, 2019 AT 11:12 AM

The personal attacks tell me all that I need to know about you cowards hiding behind anonymous posts. But I have the resources to find out who you are — and I will.

And then what? What's the point of making threats like this?


:lol:

Blakyboy is getting mad! Ha ha ha ha!

:lol:

Hey Blakeboy, what's the king's name in Facsimile No. 3?

:lol:

User avatar
Doctor CamNC4Me
God
Posts: 21629
Joined: Mon Jun 15, 2009 5:02 am

Re: Blake Ostler Erupts with Rage on FPR

Post by Doctor CamNC4Me »

Lemmie wrote:
Blake
SEPTEMBER 13, 2019 AT 11:12 AM

The personal attacks tell me all that I need to know about you cowards hiding behind anonymous posts. But I have the resources to find out who you are — and I will.


And then what? What's the point of making threats like this?


I know, right? I'd love to know what he meant by that. Good times.

Anyway. I had no idea who Blake T. Ostler was. I mean, how much of a nobody do you have to be to fly under someone's radar who's been actively engaged in Mormon-related topics and apologia since 2001? Literally no idea, so I googled his name and came up with this little gem from the second link:

https://gregkofford.com/blogs/news/auth ... e-t-ostler

Q: What began your interest in studying philosophy and theology?

A: I was a young whippersnapper when I ran into Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance by Robert Persig [sic] who died earlier this year. Because I had raced motorcycles and often rode motorbikes with my Dad, it was the perfect intro to philosophy—and it is still the best-selling book related to philosophy of all time. I was only a Junior in High School student, but for some reason I thought I could tackle Immanuel Kant's Critique of Pure Reason. I was foolish but did it anyway. I became fascinated with Kant's view that our consciousness depends on an organizational unity and categories that are not present in the things we experience, but that, in effect, we create the unity of consciousness and provide the categories to make sense of our experience and any concepts presented to us.


Admittedly I have no idea who Greg Kofford is, but that's beside the point. What's the deal with these mopologists all having been child prodigies devouring volumes of thick philosophical tomes resulting in polymaths who are never wrong about anything? It's the oddest thing... Psychologically fascinating, really.

- Doc
Last edited by Doctor CamNC4Me on Fri Sep 13, 2019 12:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
In the face of madness, rationality has no power - Xiao Wang, US historiographer, 2287 AD.

Every record...falsified, every book rewritten...every statue...has been renamed or torn down, every date...altered...the process is continuing...minute by minute. History has stopped. Nothing exists except an endless present in which the Ideology is always right.

User avatar
Philo Sofee
God
Posts: 6586
Joined: Wed Jul 04, 2012 3:04 am

Re: Blake Ostler Erupts with Rage on FPR

Post by Philo Sofee »

Blake
SEPTEMBER 13, 2019 AT 11:12 AM

The personal attacks tell me all that I need to know about you cowards hiding behind anonymous posts. But I have the resources to find out who you are — and I will.
Lemmi
And then what? What's the point of making threats like this?


It literally does nothing to entice me to believe Russell M. Nelson is an actual prophet along the lines of the old Jewish ways. It literally does nothing to help me grasp my understanding of scripture is wrong and therefore I ought to believe the interpretations told to me instead of figure them out for myself. It certainly does nothing to convince me to go back and spend so much time in their buildings when the real cathedrals of spiritual renewal are the mountains, and fields of flowers and streams of the earth itself, which renews everyone's spirit regardless of professed religious preference.
So yeah, all this silly tit for tat, back and forth, one upmanship appears to me to be drivvel in the wind. I'd rather be letting my hair fly in the wind hiking the mountains around my house..... :biggrin:
Dr CamNC4Me
"Dr. Peterson and his Callithumpian cabal of BYU idiots have been marginalized by their own inevitable irrelevancy defending a fraud."

User avatar
Philo Sofee
God
Posts: 6586
Joined: Wed Jul 04, 2012 3:04 am

Re: Blake Ostler Erupts with Rage on FPR

Post by Philo Sofee »

I might add, if he thinks Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance is still the best introduction to philosophy and is worth actually believing and attempting to live by its precepts, and I see no reason why he is wrong, then how on God's green earth is he still Mormon??? Because Pirsig's themes are not conjugal with Mormonism much. It is still fresh on my mind, since I just finished reading it last month, and I agree, READ THAT FANTASTIC BOOK!
Dr CamNC4Me
"Dr. Peterson and his Callithumpian cabal of BYU idiots have been marginalized by their own inevitable irrelevancy defending a fraud."

Stem
God
Posts: 1216
Joined: Mon Sep 18, 2017 1:21 pm

Re: Blake Ostler Erupts with Rage on FPR

Post by Stem »

That is one unfortunate looking meltdown.

I've known who he is because some years back his series on Exploring Mormon thought came out and I kinda liked them. I do remember him bragging how he at a young age, or something, read the Summa Theologiae in it's original Latin. But I've never known him otherwise.

Stem
God
Posts: 1216
Joined: Mon Sep 18, 2017 1:21 pm

Re: Blake Ostler Erupts with Rage on FPR

Post by Stem »

Philo Sofee wrote:I might add, if he thinks Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance is still the best introduction to philosophy and is worth actually believing and attempting to live by its precepts, and I see no reason why he is wrong, then how on God's green earth is he still Mormon??? Because Pirsig's themes are not conjugal with Mormonism much. It is still fresh on my mind, since I just finished reading it last month, and I agree, READ THAT FANTASTIC BOOK!


I remember the moment I realized, as a Mormon, that it was just like scripture to me. I started seeing lines it that really spoke to me. Then I found quotations and started sharing them. Some little ways into it he came up with a line, and I'm not looking it up just going from memory now just to test myself about how close I can get, that essentially said, 'the loudest and most polemic voices in politics or religion are likely those who aren't as sure about their position as they like to portray themselves to be'. I'm probably way off.

It caught me a bit off guard though. It got me really questioning the things that were said in church by leaders, etc. I mean it took a ton of years but perhaps the beginning of the end.

Stem
God
Posts: 1216
Joined: Mon Sep 18, 2017 1:21 pm

Re: Blake Ostler Erupts with Rage on FPR

Post by Stem »

I shouldn't have tried to go by memory.

here's the quote I had in mind:

You are never dedicated to something you have complete confidence in. No one is fanatically shouting that the sun is going to rise tomorrow. They know it's going to rise tomorrow. When people are fanatically dedicated to political or religious faiths or any other kinds of dogmas or goals, it's always because these dogmas or goals are in doubt.

I have a question
God
Posts: 9738
Joined: Fri Feb 13, 2015 2:01 am

Re: Blake Ostler Erupts with Rage on FPR

Post by I have a question »

Stem wrote:I shouldn't have tried to go by memory.

here's the quote I had in mind:

You are never dedicated to something you have complete confidence in. No one is fanatically shouting that the sun is going to rise tomorrow. They know it's going to rise tomorrow. When people are fanatically dedicated to political or religious faiths or any other kinds of dogmas or goals, it's always because these dogmas or goals are in doubt.

Great quote.
“When we are confronted with evidence that challenges our deeply held beliefs we are more likely to reframe the evidence than we are to alter our beliefs. We simply invent new reasons, new justifications, new explanations. Sometimes we ignore the evidence altogether.” (Mathew Syed 'Black Box Thinking')

User avatar
grindael
Dragon
Posts: 6791
Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2011 2:15 am

Re: Blake Ostler Erupts with Rage on FPR

Post by grindael »

Blake Ostler has passed...

quite a few gaseous anomalies ..

Did you think he died!!??? :lol:

Gregg is a book publisher. Great guy.
Riding on a speeding train; trapped inside a revolving door;
Lost in the riddle of a quatrain; Stuck in an elevator between floors.
One focal point in a random world can change your direction:
One step where events converge may alter your perception.

Stem
God
Posts: 1216
Joined: Mon Sep 18, 2017 1:21 pm

Re: Blake Ostler Erupts with Rage on FPR

Post by Stem »

Damn my comments got deleted. Guess I’m a trouble maker

User avatar
Dr Exiled
God
Posts: 3568
Joined: Tue Sep 29, 2015 9:48 pm

Re: Blake Ostler Erupts with Rage on FPR

Post by Dr Exiled »

Stem wrote:Damn my comments got deleted. Guess I’m a trouble maker


I saw a few comments were deleted. I guess Blake pulled some strings over there?

FYI, Blake claims to have found out the true identities of two commenters and is threatening to dox them.
"Religion is about providing human community in the guise of solving problems that don’t exist or failing to solve problems that do and seeking to reconcile these contradictions and conceal the failures in bogus explanations otherwise known as theology." - Kishkumen 

User avatar
Shulem
Son of Perdition
Posts: 11922
Joined: Thu Jun 30, 2011 7:48 pm

Re: Blake Ostler Erupts with Rage on FPR

Post by Shulem »

Exiled wrote:
Stem wrote:Damn my comments got deleted. Guess I’m a trouble maker


I saw a few comments were deleted. I guess Blake pulled some strings over there?

FYI, Blake claims to have found out the true identities of two commenters and is threatening to dox them.


Blakeboy wrote:I desire to know identities because I have a deep seated belief in personal accountability for actions. I want to know who says such nasty things and let others know how loathsome some commenting here.truly are. I have already learned 2 identities. One used a vpn but it was easy to crack because they used the same moniker before the vpn. I was not surprised and I think those who deal with them will be quite interested in their conduct and comments here and elsewhere.


Image

User avatar
Dr Moore
Endowed Chair of Historical Innovation
Posts: 836
Joined: Wed Aug 21, 2019 11:19 pm

Re: Blake Ostler Erupts with Rage on FPR

Post by Dr Moore »

Lemmie wrote:
Blake
SEPTEMBER 13, 2019 AT 11:12 AM

The personal attacks tell me all that I need to know about you cowards hiding behind anonymous posts. But I have the resources to find out who you are — and I will.

And then what? What's the point of making threats like this?


It takes a special kind of stooge to say what Blake just said online. (Evidently smallaxe has since deleted the comment)

If Ostler is claiming to have accessed FPR's site logging data and subsequently cracked a user's VPN in order to (a) ascertain their identity and (b) cause trouble in real life for said persons(s), then it is possible he just admitted to one or more criminal acts.

Post Reply