Tom Philips conspiracy theories - Add your own pet theory!

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Hasa Diga Eebowai
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Post by Hasa Diga Eebowai »

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Michael
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Re: Tom Philips conspiracy theories - Add your own pet theor

Post by Michael »

Tom Phillips wrote:Hi, I am Tom Phillips and this is the very first time I have posted on this board although I have lurked, and been edified by you, for a few years. Check with Dr. Shades if you wish. He set up my account about 3 hours ago and can, presumably, confirm I am not the other poster some have accused me of being. One conspiracy scotched.

Thank you Mary and others for your defence of me. I get far more messages of support and gratitude than the opposite. That said, I am not in this for any notoriety , I am merely doing what I can to bring out the truth.

So, as to the theories posted by the OP, none are true. The one that I lack PR skills has an element of truth in this because I have ignored and been unconcerned about PR. The news, when it breaks will be its own PR and will gain momentum without me. It is not because I lack the skills, having used such skills for the church in the past. It is that I am not concerned about a PR campaign at this stage. That will happen later and will be handled by others far more expert than I. It is true that Mercury suggested a newswire, but I do not need that. I already have media interest and I will leave the PR to them, when the news can break.

Those who have offerd help, I appreciate and will be in contact with them when we can go public.

That said will this all be a damp squid? For some it obviously will. For most no. I did not coin the term 'October Surprise' that label was penned by others. I made an off the cuff remark in my excitement and it 'grew legs'. As I said on another board, I regret mentioning anything. I was then asked when this would happen and, at the time, I gave my best guess as October, but timing has never been completely in my control.

Will it be a surprise? It will, because with all the speculation on a number of boards not one, so far, is accurate. So, to that extent it will be a surprise, something nobody has guessed. Will it be secret documents or sex scandal? No. Will it bring down the church No, I have already said that. I can't think of anything that will bring down the church for at least 2 reasons. (1) the church has survived despite proof it is false (Book of Mormon, Book of Abraham, DNA etc.) and (2) there are so many TBMs that will believe no matter what and will spin or put on the shelf anything that is thrown at the church. Will it damage the church? Yes, for sure and will cause some to leave. I don't see how the apologists will be able to spin their way out of this. But I could be wrong, there are a lot of illusions/magic tricks that I do not understand.

Bottom line - I am engaged with something that I think will have a major impact on the church. That is my personal opinion and others may think differently, that it is nothing. It has complexities and timing issues and fairly considerable financial cost. The nay sayers will understand these when it is released. So, if you are genuinely interested, please be patient a little longer. I hope not to disappoint but, hey, I am human. I do not claim to be a prophet of God or anything special. I just want the truth out there for future generations, if not this generation. Many of us have TBM families who will probably go to their graves believing. My hope is for those who are open to the truth and for future generations. Let's not continue this delusional myth.


I'm glad you stepped up, Tom. I've been a member of this board and mostly lurked for 18 months. Some folks here are addicted to drama and it obviously gets out of hand. Pay no attention to that. I certainly appreciate your efforts and wish I could do something to help. Again, please ignore the immature drama element that's ever present on this board.
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Sammy Jankins
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Re: Tom Philips conspiracy theories - Add your own pet theor

Post by Sammy Jankins »

Putting my personal skepticism aside for a moment, if Tom indeed has information that will fundamentally change the way the church is viewed, doesn't he almost have a ethical obligation to release it? I say that such information should be made public for us to determine its relevancy. Isn't one of the churches greatest "sins" been to decide for others what they need to know?
If Tom really has this information wouldn't that just make him a whistle-blower? I suppose there is a long and proud tradition of shaming whistle-blowers for upsetting the cart. Yes he is emotionally invested in it, but how could he not be? Maybe I've read too many exit stories from people who just couldn't make themselves believe the LDS church. I, for one, am tired of faith occupying a privileged status over skepticism. Of faith promoting stories being privileged over real history. By the same token, faith promoting proselytizing doesn't deserve a privileged status over faith destroying proselytizing.
I'm not saying I believe Tom. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. So until he produces said extraordinary evidence I simply can't believe it. Also I'd agree that the hype has been unwise. But in the last week, Tom has simply been responding mainly to inquiries and things posted about him. It's a byproduct of the original mistake of hyping the release, before he had anything to show.

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Re: Tom Philips conspiracy theories - Add your own pet theor

Post by Everybody Wang Chung »

Sammy Jankins wrote:Putting my personal skepticism aside for a moment, if Tom indeed has information that will fundamentally change the way the church is viewed, doesn't he almost have a ethical obligation to release it? I say that such information should be made public for us to determine its relevancy. Isn't one of the churches greatest "sins" been to decide for others what they need to know?


Sammy,

I certainly don't want to speak for Tom, but I do have a little information and have independently verified Tom is unable to release the information at this time.

Maybe Tom will be able to elaborate a little further, but things are very precarious right now. Sanctorum, who I know IRL, was also made privy to this info and was trying to help by soliciting some funds.

My advice is to just email Tom if you have any questions, concerns, or want to help.
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Re: Tom Philips conspiracy theories - Add your own pet theor

Post by Ceeboo »

Tom Phillips wrote:Hi, I am Tom Phillips


Hi Tom, I am Ceeboo!
Welcome aboard! :smile:

and this is the very first time I have posted on this board although I have lurked


Glad you decided to engage the MormonDiscussions.com community. I hope you stick around and continue to share.

Will it be a surprise? It will, because with all the speculation on a number of boards not one, so far, is accurate. So, to that extent it will be a surprise, something nobody has guessed.


Colonel Mustard, with a candlestick, in the kitchen?


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Re: Tom Philips conspiracy theories - Add your own pet theor

Post by suniluni2 »

Still calling bs, but good luck Tom.

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Re: Tom Philips conspiracy theories - Add your own pet theor

Post by Michael »

suniluni2 wrote:Still calling bs, but good luck Tom.


Instead of still calling bs, how about an apology to Tom for your false accusation about his hidden identity being proven false?
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Re: Tom Philips conspiracy theories - Add your own pet theor

Post by suniluni2 »

Still calling bs, and I apologize to Tom and Sanctorian for accusing them of being the same person. That was made partially in jest, I'm too lazy to insert the emoticons. Sanctorian's story is still fishy though (the only basis for my otherwise unfounded accusation), or, as he suggests, he may have been a little naïve in this situation. That would be understandable wanting to help Tom, if everything being said is true.

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Re: Tom Philips conspiracy theories - Add your own pet theor

Post by Mercury »

Thank you Tom for representing your opinion directly on this forum. The current dynamic in Reddit and exmormon.org is one of elation and veneration of certain personalities. What I find extremely unnerving is the nature of your potential release. If it is extremely damaging information it should stand on its own.

Skepticism drives my actions and others. If I did not question your motives and methodology I would feel like a hypocrite. By querying for clarification on the methodology I am simply carrying out a process that needs to take place in order to weed out any possible charlatan shenanigans a great deal of new exmos are susceptible to.

What I find odd is that information should stand on its own outside of a campaign. Also, what information would cost thousands of dollars to release? It is true that the "october surprise" has grown its own legs and this situation has gained momentum, taking on a life of its own.

Bottom line is that I fear you are attempting to take advantage of the wave of disaffection that is sweeping the church for financial gain. Those such as myself who ask questions and require answers are taken aback by what appears to be secrecy and a lack of transparency on your part.

I have seen elsewhere that it has been reported intimidation has been employed on you in order to counter your actions regarding your future release. Is this true? Can you be specific? If so, why not?

I wish you the best of luck in this endeavor but if this turns out to be a campaign for a book or warmed over interpretations of available information you will have an angry mob on your hands.

Thanks Tom. I have nothing but good wishes for you but skepticism should be the yardstick, not blind faith.
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Re: Tom Philips conspiracy theories - Add your own pet theor

Post by Michael »

suniluni2 wrote:Still calling bs, and I apologize to Tom and Sanctorian for accusing them of being the same person. That was made partially in jest, I'm too lazy to insert the emoticons. Sanctorian's story is still fishy though (the only basis for my otherwise unfounded accusation), or, as he suggests, he may have been a little naïve in this situation. That would be understandable wanting to help Tom, if everything being said is true.


I think skepticism is always called for prior to making a "donation". As for me personally, I'd throw in a few hundred bucks if it were something huge. The problem is most people won't donate without knowing what it is first. And if Tom has everyone sign a non disclosure agreement prior to donating the information would definitely leak. Perhaps choosing one or two folks from this board who are proven trustworthy in their judgment to sign an NDA, and have them vouch for the credibility and power of the information. I'd throw in money based on a few posters word. Kishkumen is one I'd trust for starters even though I've never met the chap.
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Re: Tom Philips conspiracy theories - Add your own pet theor

Post by Mercury »

Michael wrote:
suniluni2 wrote:Still calling bs, but good luck Tom.


Instead of still calling bs, how about an apology to Tom for your false accusation about his hidden identity being proven false?


How has this been proven false?
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Re: Tom Philips conspiracy theories - Add your own pet theor

Post by suniluni2 »

Tom Phillips wrote:I did not coin the term 'October Surprise' that label was penned by others. I made an off the cuff remark in my excitement and it 'grew legs'.


Hey Tom, I apologize as I accused you of being Sanctorian, assuming that is not true. I've also realized I imputed others' hype of your story to you.

Tom Phillips wrote:Many of us have TBM families who will probably go to their graves believing. My hope is for those who are open to the truth and for future generations. Let's not continue this delusional myth.


No bs here. Good luck.

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Re: Tom Philips conspiracy theories - Add your own pet theor

Post by suniluni2 »

Mercury wrote:
Michael wrote:
Instead of still calling bs, how about an apology to Tom for your false accusation about his hidden identity being proven false?


How has this been proven false?


By Tom coming on and saying he's not Sanctorian, and by Sanctorian saying he is not Tom. In some eyes, that seems to qualifty as proof. I don't agree, but as I've said, the "accusation" was made in jest, and I don't really give a ____, so I'll concede.

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Re: Tom Philips conspiracy theories - Add your own pet theor

Post by Michael »

Mercury wrote:How has this been proven false?


Proven false because Sanctoriun is known IRL by EverybodyWangChung. Or at least called into serious doubt.
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Re: Tom Philips conspiracy theories - Add your own pet theor

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Michael wrote:
Mercury wrote:How has this been proven false?


Proven false because Sanctoriun is known IRL by EverybodyWangChung. Or at least called into serious doubt.



Ummm how does one anon poster stating he knows the RL identity of another anon poster verify anything?
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Re: Tom Philips conspiracy theories - Add your own pet theor

Post by Ceeboo »

Fence Sitter wrote:

Ummm how does one anon poster stating he knows the RL identity of another anon poster verify anything?


I can verify this, as I know Fence Sitter IRL.

:razz:

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Re: Tom Philips conspiracy theories - Add your own pet theor

Post by Kishkumen »

Maybe he is collecting money to prepare for legal problems.
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Re: Tom Philips conspiracy theories - Add your own pet theor

Post by Michael »

Fence Sitter wrote:Ummm how does one anon poster stating he knows the RL identity of another anon poster verify anything?


You have a good point. I guess mostly I just don't care. It's all drama and speculation. There's a lot of that on the forum and I try to avoid it. Especially all the Dr. Scratch/Yoda BS. Guess I got sucked into this particular drama (my own choice). I have a hard time putting energy into the drama. I want the church to fall. I don't hide from that. Why? Truth is always better than fiction. And people deserve to know all the facts going in so they can make their own, fully informed decision.

If Tom has something and needs help financially, then a proper procedure can be put into place to mitigate the risks. If Tom is, in fact, Sanctoriun, then he definitely messed up. Would it absolutely destroy his credibility in my eyes? Not absolutely. But I'd damn sure demand proof of claims before giving money even if proof is provided through a trustworthy mediator as I mentioned in a prior post. But I'd do that anyway, even if he's not Sanctroiun.

Tom...what do you need and how can we go about helping? Give it to us straight. (Hint: go through someone with credibility like Kishkumen). Or you can send a private message to me personally telling me everything. :lol:

PS- As for me, I don't care anything about hiding my real life identity. And I'm not sure why other folks out of the church are worried about it either. Not sure how this is relevant to anything. Just thought I'd throw it out there.

edit: Decided to read the forum rules. Edited out cuss words in this post. Man it's hard not to cuss.
Last edited by Michael on Sat Oct 26, 2013 7:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Tom Philips conspiracy theories - Add your own pet theor

Post by honorentheos »

Thinking about it, 2013 has already been an incredible year regardless of any contribution Tom Philips might make. Between the New York Times report on Hans Mattsson and doubt in the church in late July and the ongoing discussion stemming from Chris Johnson's presentation alone one senses the momentum is shifting faster than the church is prepared to respond.

As I believe Chris Johnson said in his presentation, it's been the pursuit of truth that ultimately led me out of the church and where I continue to find interest when it relates to Mormonism. If Tom Philips can contribute even more to this momentum, then I wish him well in his pursuits.
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Re: Tom Philips conspiracy theories - Add your own pet theor

Post by Tobin »

honorentheos wrote:Thinking about it, 2013 has already been an incredible year regardless of any contribution Tom Philips might make. Between the New York Times report on Hans Mattsson and doubt in the church in late July and the ongoing discussion stemming from Chris Johnson's presentation alone one senses the momentum is shifting faster than the church is prepared to respond.

As I believe Chris Johnson said in his presentation, it's been the pursuit of truth that ultimately led me out of the church and where I continue to find interest when it relates to Mormonism. If Tom Philips can contribute even more to this momentum, then I wish him well in his pursuits.


Yes, in the incredible year of 2013 we learned that Swedish members of the LDS Church didn't seem to know very much about it and that the Book of Mormon seems to be a 19th century work. I can't wait for Tom to reveal that many LDS members in Utah tend to be Republicans.
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