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 Post subject: Re: THE BOOK OF ABRAHAM FACSIMILE NO. 3​​ WEBSITE
PostPosted: Mon Dec 25, 2017 4:32 pm 
Son of Perdition
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Shulem wrote:
Based on what you see in the enlarged woodcut plate, do you sense that there was a jackal nose originally carved and afterward removed? Which way do you tend to lean knowing what you know right now? On a scale of 1-10: 1 being there is no way there was a nose and 10 being there was most certainly a nose.

[ ] 1 (definitely no)
[ ] 2
[ ] 3
[ ] 4
[ ] 5
[ ] 6
[ ] 7
[ ] 8
[ ] 9
[ ] 10 (definitely yes)


Thanks to all those who expressed their opinion in the other thread:

Quote:
Facsimile No. 3 printing plate reveals jackal head Anubis

8-9 Fence Sitter
8-9 Themis
8.9 deacon blues
8-9 Philo Sofee
8-9 Sanctorian
3 abinadi_fire
9 Symmachus
3 The Dude
10 Jesse Pinkman
10 DonBradley


I would love to hear from more of you. What's your number?

1-10

Thanks

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 Post subject: Re: THE BOOK OF ABRAHAM FACSIMILE NO. 3​​ WEBSITE
PostPosted: Mon Dec 25, 2017 4:49 pm 
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Shulem, Really good work! I love the clever, original way you show the difference in the J. Smith babble and the correct interpretation.

About half way through you have a panel showing the actors conversing with some silly sex talk. What is the point in that? Is there a point that I am missing, or is it just simply your attempt at comedic relief?

Just bringing it up because, well, if it bothers me a little, there will be others it bothers a lot. It seems like you've put together a great tool for proselyting morms, why sabotage it.


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 Post subject: Re: THE BOOK OF ABRAHAM FACSIMILE NO. 3​​ WEBSITE
PostPosted: Mon Dec 25, 2017 5:10 pm 
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tana wrote:
Shulem, Really good work! I love the clever, original way you show the difference in the J. Smith babble and the correct interpretation.

About half way through you have a panel showing the actors conversing with some silly sex talk. What is the point in that? Is there a point that I am missing, or is it just simply your attempt at comedic relief?

Just bringing it up because, well, if it bothers me a little, there will be others it bothers a lot. It seems like you've put together a great tool for proselyting morms, why sabotage it.


Thanks!

The point of the sexy translation is to remind everyone that the persons Joseph Smith labeled as male (Fig. 2 & 4) are in fact female. The colorization and sleezy humor is supposed to drive that home.

The point is: They are girls, not boys. Joseph Smith wasn't keen enough to zero in on their true sex, perhaps he needed glasses due to poor eyesight.

The point of the cartoon is to finalize their sex with a little fun and establish forever that they are girls and Joseph Smith was dead wrong. Mormon apologists can choke on it.

Tana, 1-10?

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 Post subject: Re: THE BOOK OF ABRAHAM FACSIMILE NO. 3​​ WEBSITE
PostPosted: Mon Dec 25, 2017 5:36 pm 
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Shulem wrote:
tana wrote:
Shulem, Really good work! I love the clever, original way you show the difference in the J. Smith babble and the correct interpretation.

About half way through you have a panel showing the actors conversing with some silly sex talk. What is the point in that? Is there a point that I am missing, or is it just simply your attempt at comedic relief?

Just bringing it up because, well, if it bothers me a little, there will be others it bothers a lot. It seems like you've put together a great tool for proselyting morms, why sabotage it.


Thanks!

The point of the sexy translation is to remind everyone that the persons Joseph Smith labeled as male (Fig. 2 & 4) are in fact female. The colorization and sleezy humor is supposed to drive that home.

The point is: They are girls, not boys. Joseph Smith wasn't keen enough to zero in on their true sex, perhaps he needed glasses due to poor eyesight.

The point of the cartoon is to finalize their sex with a little fun and establish forever that they are girls and Joseph Smith was dead wrong. Mormon apologists can choke on it.

Tana, 1-10?


Very good then. Carry on.

Based on woodcut only. There certainly seems to be a difference in the tool-marks in the background general, and the background at the snout. So, 8 - 9 then.

I'm a contractor, carpenter, house builder. You need to locate a woodcarving forensics-ist.


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 Post subject: Re: THE BOOK OF ABRAHAM FACSIMILE NO. 3​​ WEBSITE
PostPosted: Wed Dec 27, 2017 10:08 am 
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I don't have a crystal ball so it's hard to say exactly what's going to happen but eventually this matter will be studied and reviewed by church apologists and professional analysts. It will happen. No question about that. Once the apologists get wind of this they are going to want to get to the bottom of it and come up with some kind of response.

The question is what will be the response but more importantly what will result from professional analysis regarding the treatment of Anubis in the lead plate. There is going to be chatter and discussion and finally a slew of opinions. The opinion that will count the most will be from those who know and understand metallurgy.

Then there is the question of HOW the apologists will spin their response should it be conclusively shown that there was indeed a snout in the original space. Just how will the apologists respond to that and what excuses will they come up with? Blame Hedlock while Smith was out to lunch? Hedlock accidently broke the snout while making a final cut so elected to get rid of all of it to make it look more humane?

Oh the web the apologists weave! LDS apologists are like spiders spinning webs to trap themselves and anyone else who dare enter.

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 Post subject: Re: THE BOOK OF ABRAHAM FACSIMILE NO. 3​​ WEBSITE
PostPosted: Wed Dec 27, 2017 12:22 pm 
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let's also take into consideration the responsibility the LDS church today bears should it be determined that an original jackal snout was first carved on the woodcut mirroring the image in the original papyrus. Suppose that it's determined this was the case and LDS scholars admit it. What then?

Doesn't the LDS church have a responsibility to clear the air (so-to speak) and address this issue? The LDS church is responsible for taking the image of a major god from another religion and defacing it and publishing it in Nauvoo and in their worldwide canon for 138 years. If it can be shown that the church is guilty of defacing the TRUE image of Anubis and hid this from the world then this needs to be addressed.

The church is responsible for defacing the god from a different religion and would need to make amends -- to include an apology. What the LDS church has done to Anubis is shameful and warrants an apology. They have mutilated and misrepresented Anubis and have done so without bearing any shame or responsibility.

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 Post subject: Re: THE BOOK OF ABRAHAM FACSIMILE NO. 3​​ WEBSITE
PostPosted: Wed Dec 27, 2017 4:00 pm 
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If there is anybody left in the Church that has a shred of intellectual honesty left within them, but who continues to believe the Book Of Abraham is what it claims to be, they should discuss the reasons for their belief in it with Shulem.

It’s a demonstrably flat out lie.
And there’s nobody better to demonstrate that than Shulem.

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 Post subject: Re: THE BOOK OF ABRAHAM FACSIMILE NO. 3​​ WEBSITE
PostPosted: Wed Dec 27, 2017 4:34 pm 
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An excellent youtube is on dealing with the Book of Abraham BYU Professor defends the book of Abraham

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_KLa8HYsfpM

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 Post subject: Re: THE BOOK OF ABRAHAM FACSIMILE NO. 3​​ WEBSITE
PostPosted: Wed Dec 27, 2017 5:32 pm 
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aussieguy55 wrote:
An excellent youtube is on dealing with the Book of Abraham BYU Professor defends the book of Abraham

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_KLa8HYsfpM


He's a twit and a liar.

LDS Egyptologist Muhlestein on Facsimile 3
Brother Kerry Muhlestein: most will never understand Book of Abraham
Kerry Muhlestein's latest crap
Mormon egyptologist Kerry Muhlestein: Book of Abraham was TRANSLATED
Translation and Historicity of the Book of Abraham

etc

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 Post subject: Re: THE BOOK OF ABRAHAM FACSIMILE NO. 3​​ WEBSITE
PostPosted: Fri Dec 29, 2017 11:35 am 
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A trip down memory lane featuring the notorious LDS apologist Hugh Nibley and his slanderous statements he made about the sacred Egyptian papyrus that Joseph Smith brutally assaulted is in order.

Ensign March 1976
Dr. Hugh Nibley, professor emeritus of Ancient Scripture, Brigham Young University - link:

What, exactly, is the purpose and significance of the facsimiles in the book of Abraham?

Nibley was always reticent when it came to Anubis in Facsimile No. 3 and the idea of him being a slave according to Joseph Smith was not something he was anxious to discuss. I think he had a problem with it and for very good reason. I have to wonder what Hugh would have to say regarding the chopped out snout in the woodcut lead plate? What kind of apologetic drivel would he dream up? The man had no shame. He was a liar for the Lord and the kingpin and mouthpiece for Brigham Young University which to this day continues to make a mockery of the ancient Egyptian religion.

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 Post subject: Re: NEW BOOK OF ABRAHAM FACSIMILE NO. 3​​ WEBSITE
PostPosted: Fri Dec 29, 2017 6:08 pm 
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Last edited by Jersey Girl on Wed Jan 10, 2018 6:50 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: NEW BOOK OF ABRAHAM FACSIMILE NO. 3​​ WEBSITE
PostPosted: Fri Dec 29, 2017 7:33 pm 
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Jersey Girl wrote:

This new discovery by Paul Osborn earns him a solid: 10.


That was an excellent summation and congratulations on a winning number. I concur, a 10 is correct.

By the way, there is an "e" at the end of my name.

:biggrin:

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 Post subject: Re: NEW BOOK OF ABRAHAM FACSIMILE NO. 3​​ WEBSITE
PostPosted: Fri Dec 29, 2017 8:18 pm 
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Shulem wrote:
Jersey Girl wrote:

This new discovery by Paul Osborn earns him a solid: 10.


That was an excellent summation and congratulations on a winning number. I concur, a 10 is correct.

By the way, there is an "e" at the end of my name.

:biggrin:


e

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 Post subject: Re: NEW BOOK OF ABRAHAM FACSIMILE NO. 3​​ WEBSITE
PostPosted: Fri Dec 29, 2017 8:20 pm 
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Jersey Girl wrote:
e


It ain't my fault your house is a mess and you can't keep things organized.

:lol:

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 Post subject: Re: NEW BOOK OF ABRAHAM FACSIMILE NO. 3​​ WEBSITE
PostPosted: Fri Dec 29, 2017 8:33 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: NEW BOOK OF ABRAHAM FACSIMILE NO. 3​​ WEBSITE
PostPosted: Fri Dec 29, 2017 8:48 pm 
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For what it’s worth, Paul, I agree with Jersey Girl. Great site! Kudos on a job well done. :biggrin:

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 Post subject: Re: NEW BOOK OF ABRAHAM FACSIMILE NO. 3​​ WEBSITE
PostPosted: Fri Dec 29, 2017 9:02 pm 
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10+1 - The +1 is for the other ear I think was there. If you look closely it seems like a divet exists where the ear should've been.

- Doc


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 Post subject: Re: NEW BOOK OF ABRAHAM FACSIMILE NO. 3​​ WEBSITE
PostPosted: Fri Dec 29, 2017 9:10 pm 
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Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:
10+1 - The +1 is for the other ear I think was there. If you look closely it seems like a divet exists is where the ear should've been.

- Doc


More shall be revealed. There may have been a second ear.

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 Post subject: Re: NEW BOOK OF ABRAHAM FACSIMILE NO. 3​​ WEBSITE
PostPosted: Fri Dec 29, 2017 9:12 pm 
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Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:
10+1 - The +1 is for the other ear I think was there. If you look closely it seems like a divet exists is where the ear should've been.

- Doc


Oh sure, bring the ear into it after I've already posted my magnum opus. :rolleyes:

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 Post subject: Re: NEW BOOK OF ABRAHAM FACSIMILE NO. 3​​ WEBSITE
PostPosted: Fri Dec 29, 2017 9:13 pm 
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Shulem wrote:
Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:
10+1 - The +1 is for the other ear I think was there. If you look closely it seems like a divet exists is where the ear should've been.

- Doc


More shall be revealed. There may have been a second ear.


Really? Interesting. Looking forward to your continued research.

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 Post subject: Re: NEW BOOK OF ABRAHAM FACSIMILE NO. 3​​ WEBSITE
PostPosted: Sat Dec 30, 2017 7:15 am 
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Jersey Girl wrote:
There is a fragment of a scroll or the hypocephalus (the head thing on which they placed the head of the embalmed), where a portion was missing and the images were filled or drawn in by someone else. That is to say, they were tampered with.


Smith wasn't afraid to manhandle the Hypocephalus (Facsimile No. 2) and provide wholesale interpretation according to his own liking and understanding of how he saw the papyri vignettes and how he thought it best to reconstruct the missing sections of the Hypocephalus. This is not something the church today likes to discuss. The church doesn't want its members to think about how Joseph Smith rearranged and restored (ultimately TAMPERING) with images and text to say nothing of accidentally placing hieroglyphic characters upside down. You'd think a translator who is interpreting by a Holy Spirit and revealing the true meaning of a lost language would at least be able to set the hieroglyphs in their upright and correct position. It's very disconcerting:

Image

So, even with all of Joseph Smith's divine gifts to translate and notwithstanding the Holy Ghost breathing all over the printing press while the sacred work was underway -- the entire presentation was a flop.

But, lest I digress further from the point I originally wanted to make let me just say this much: Joseph Smith had no qualms with adding or subtracting from the word. He felt he could do whatever he wanted and if he added to the word it was by his own will. If he took away from the word it was by his own will. Smith tampered with everything he ever touched to include biblical verses and other men's wives. He couldn't keep his hands off anything.

So, the point is, Smith was not afraid to take the jackal head away anymore than he was afraid of adding text and images to Facsimile No. 2 for his own aesthetic purposes.

Smith giveth and Smith taketh.

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