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 Post subject: Re: Stake President Wants to Talk with Me
PostPosted: Wed Sep 13, 2017 4:47 pm 
Stake High Council
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consiglieri wrote:
I have asked what it will be about.

I have received a somewhat ambiguous reply, but clarified it is not about calling me to repentance, but talking about different "issues" going on in the stake. (That could cover a lot of ground.)

My initial reaction (having been and being in the same boat as your stake president, with respect to reaching out to the inactive and those with issues) was similar to how this is playing out, as I read further down the thread. That is, I wouldn't expect this meeting to be a call to repentance (not out of the gates), but rather simply a "getting a feel" for you in the context of wrapping his mind around what to do with/about you. Thus, I would expect it to be pretty cordial and for him to give you the bulk of the floor to discuss where you're at (and why), your podcasts, etc.

I think that what you tell him will then factor in to what he does next.

We had a new stake presidency put in in December. They needed to get to know the stake and get a feel for the unique issues (issues such as yours, or other issues --- not always apostasy or criticism) firsthand, by talking to people. In fact, our stake president has told us that they are spending this first year mainly feeling the stake out before making any substantive changes next year.

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On the other hand, I would not in a thousand years expect my friend would be setting me up for anything bad.

I don't think this is a set-up at all. I think it is what your friend said it is, on its face: learning firsthand about "some happenings in the stake, and . . . expand[ing] his understanding about a variety of things;" "talking about different 'issues' going on in the stake."

I think this initial meeting is a "listening tour."


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 Post subject: Re: Stake President Wants to Talk with Me
PostPosted: Wed Sep 13, 2017 4:49 pm 
God

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Runtu wrote:
consiglieri wrote:
A suppose a valid response would be that I will start going back to church when they start giving me something to go back to church for.

I really did try to go back and make it work several times, but it was just too painful and ultimately impossible. These days, every time I think maybe I could give it another shot, I remember how bad it was before, and that's enough. Honestly, even if I could get over all the issues I have with the church, I associate church activity with feeling really terrible about myself, and I don't ever want to feel that way again.

I honestly think there has been a cultural shift within the last ten years or so. At least that's my perception. Pres. Uchtdorf and others have preached mercy and forgiveness, along with the encouragement to not take yourself too seriously or be too hard on yourself. I used to feel a bit more pressure in years gone by also. Things are somewhat more mellow nowadays, even when you discuss things in a more nuanced way with fellow ward members. I teach the sixteen year olds and we get pretty darned nuanced/open now and then and have some nice conversations. No flack yet from anyone. I think the 'vibes' at church are less stressful than they used to be with the whole Molly Mormon and Peter Perfect thing.

Regards,
MG

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 Post subject: Re: Stake President Wants to Talk with Me
PostPosted: Wed Sep 13, 2017 5:16 pm 
God

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I have a question wrote:
Do you want to meet with him?

If so, why?

Curiosity.

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You prove yourself of the devil and anti-mormon every word you utter, because only the devil perverts facts to make their case.--ldsfaqs (6-24-13)


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 Post subject: Re: Stake President Wants to Talk with Me
PostPosted: Wed Sep 13, 2017 5:23 pm 
God

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consiglieri wrote:
I have a question wrote:
Do you want to meet with him?

If so, why?

Curiosity.

Politely, clearly and firmly declining such advances at the very start, has always served me well.

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“A reliable way to make people believe in falsehoods is frequent repetition, because familiarity is not easily distinguished from truth. Authoritarian institutions and marketers have always known this fact.”
― Daniel Kahneman, Nobel Prize Winner, 'Thinking, Fast and Slow'


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 Post subject: Re: Stake President Wants to Talk with Me
PostPosted: Wed Sep 13, 2017 5:26 pm 
God

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You may be right.

But like my mom always used to say, "Curiosity killed the cat."

"But satisfaction brought him back!"

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You prove yourself of the devil and anti-mormon every word you utter, because only the devil perverts facts to make their case.--ldsfaqs (6-24-13)


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 Post subject: Re: Stake President Wants to Talk with Me
PostPosted: Wed Sep 13, 2017 5:31 pm 
God

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consiglieri wrote:
You may be right.

But like my mom always used to say, "Curiosity killed the cat."

"But satisfaction brought him back!"

He couldn’t be bothered to contact you himself.

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“A reliable way to make people believe in falsehoods is frequent repetition, because familiarity is not easily distinguished from truth. Authoritarian institutions and marketers have always known this fact.”
― Daniel Kahneman, Nobel Prize Winner, 'Thinking, Fast and Slow'


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 Post subject: Re: Stake President Wants to Talk with Me
PostPosted: Wed Sep 13, 2017 5:50 pm 
God
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consiglieri wrote:
Jersey Girl wrote:
Oh I'm sorry. Welp, you could always bring a new friend and introduce them as an investigator.

:smile:

Good luck!

Thanks, Jersey!

So . . . you doing anything tomorrow night?

Not a darn thing! If I lived in your state I'd be all over it!

Pinky swear.

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 Post subject: Re: Stake President Wants to Talk with Me
PostPosted: Wed Sep 13, 2017 7:10 pm 
Hermit
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Consig,

Your only chance is to go in there as a missionary for the content of your blog, which you stand behind 100%. You are there to teach, not to be taught. Think of it as a sales call and do what you can to turn any distractions back to your content. You have to have supreme belief and confidence in your podcast content. A good stake president or bishop can smell a guilty conscious a mile away. You don't have "questions", people with questions are in guilt territory; you my friend, have "answers", and those are found in your podcast. If you exude enough confidence, he may invite you to the High Council no matter how apostate he thinks you are.

I see Craig actually nailed it in his experience.


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 Post subject: Re: Stake President Wants to Talk with Me
PostPosted: Wed Sep 13, 2017 7:19 pm 
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Well consig...I have this fantasy. That you go in..and the stake president tells you how much he loves and admires your podcasts and is impressed with your questions..issues..and many things brought to light; then..he looks into your eyes and says..."I am where I am...what can I do to help"? :razz:

Good luck...oooo...I would love to be a fly on the wall!!


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 Post subject: Re: Stake President Wants to Talk with Me
PostPosted: Wed Sep 13, 2017 7:21 pm 
God
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I'm so excited about my ... ummm our ....aaahhh I mean Consig's meeting tomorrow. Damn I hope it's tomorrow. You did not go for all the way till next Sunday did you?

Isn't everyone as curious as I am now?

You have to hurry home, return and report! I can't wait!


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 Post subject: Re: Stake President Wants to Talk with Me
PostPosted: Wed Sep 13, 2017 7:22 pm 
The Outcast
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Maksutov wrote:
Wear a wire.

Amen. If the stake president is an honest man, he won't deny later what he says on tape.

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It is not a matter of the declaration of a policy but of direct commandment from the Lord, on which is founded the doctrine of the Church from the days of its organization, ... that Negroes...are not entitled to the Priesthood at the present time.
LDS First Presidency, 8/17/1949

"without evidence what you say is worthless"-Philo Sofee, 7/16/2017


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 Post subject: Re: Stake President Wants to Talk with Me
PostPosted: Wed Sep 13, 2017 7:29 pm 
God

Joined: Mon Nov 30, 2009 6:56 pm
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You are a danger to the members in his stake and maybe beyond. this guy wants to check you out. he will sense your demeanor, respect or lack of it toward him and the church. he will sit behind a desk and you will be in the role of one subservient to his priesthood. prior to thde meeting he will definitely listen to one of your podcasts and he will ask why you do it- he will ask if you believe you are helping or hurting other members. you cannot hurt him because he like DCP has his fingers in his ears shouting " it's true, its true nothing can convince me otherwise"

after he feels you out, he will ask you to meet again so he can pile up more ammo against you.

bottom line "your curiosity" is not a good reason to meet this guy imho- nothing good happens in these meetings and friends you think you have may not be so. kick the can down the road-make him work to see you-postpone the meeting a few times-play hard to get.

just sayin'
k


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 Post subject: Re: Stake President Wants to Talk with Me
PostPosted: Wed Sep 13, 2017 8:16 pm 
God
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New stake president at ordination: Here are the keys to your stake, oh and the SCMC report.

Clearly Consig needs some 'strengthening' hehe


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 Post subject: Re: Stake President Wants to Talk with Me
PostPosted: Wed Sep 13, 2017 8:38 pm 
Seedy Academician
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Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:
He can literally reach out to you or come to you. This odd power play where you have to go into his office is odd, especially considering you two are adults.

Anyway. If you decide you want to meet with him offer to do so while hiking or over a meal. He's not your employer. He's not your dad. He has no authority other than what you decide to give him. Make him the equal or subordinate he really is.

- Doc


QFT. Great post.

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 Post subject: Re: Stake President Wants to Talk with Me
PostPosted: Wed Sep 13, 2017 8:39 pm 
God
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candygal wrote:
Well consig...I have this fantasy. That you go in..and the stake president tells you how much he loves and admires your podcasts and is impressed with your questions..issues..and many things brought to light; then..he looks into your eyes and says..."I am where I am...what can I do to help"? :razz:

Good luck...oooo...I would love to be a fly on the wall!!


Since we're sharing fantasies, here's mine...

Consig goes in and it starts to get a little um, pushy, and then he...starts quoting us.


stake president: Blah, Blah, intrusive stuff, Blah.

C: "You know Rock said he was so excited for me to come today and now I can see why"!

stake president: Blah, Blah, more intrusive stuff, Blah.

C: "Oh yes, Craig says that's a concern."

stake president: Blah, Blah, shines the lightbulb in your eyes, Blah.

C: "Well, since you brought it up, I have the same concern that Shulem has about the Book of Abraham, so let me run this by you okay..."

Until finally...

stake president: Who ARE these people?

C: "Why, they're my friends of course. :rolleyes: I've known them for years. Btw, if you want to meet again I'd love for Jersey Girl to come. She's an investigator. She would have actually come today but she's out of state at the moment. "

;-)

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Stay close to the people who feel like sunlight ~ Arsu Shaikh


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 Post subject: Re: Stake President Wants to Talk with Me
PostPosted: Wed Sep 13, 2017 8:50 pm 
Seedy Academician
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I admire, respect, and feel great affection for consiglieri. And I ultimately don't see how he remains LDS. The continuation of his membership is contingent on the following factors:

1) How much patience he has with the LDS Church
2) How well his podcast is known to the "Committee"
3) How much effort they have put into figuring out his message

I really don't like the LDS Church. Yeah, there are many nice Mormons. Great people. But the heart of the beast is obedience to the priesthood, period. Not Jesus. Not the love of Christ. Not charity. Obedience.

That's not enough for me to hold onto. I can't imagine it being enough for consiglieri. But that is the price of entry. Your temple blessings are, in the minds of the leaders, contingent on obedience to the priesthood.

I wish you well, consig. I consider you my brother. No matter what happens, or what you decide about it. Hopefully, this is nothing.

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 Post subject: Re: Stake President Wants to Talk with Me
PostPosted: Wed Sep 13, 2017 9:00 pm 
Prophet
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They want to feel you out like they did with dehlin. Someone from above told the new stake president to have a chat with you and return and report. That's what I think is going on. So, please record it and ask if someone from headquarters has an interest in your podcast. Ask if that someone or the stake president will be interviewed. You could say you want to cover the disaffection issue with someone with a really strong testimony. He won't agree but the recording of him squirming would be priceless.

You know they probably read this site .....


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 Post subject: Re: Stake President Wants to Talk with Me
PostPosted: Wed Sep 13, 2017 9:38 pm 
God
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Runtu wrote:

My practice, after a few bad experiences, is to ask what they want to talk to me about before I'll agree to see them. If the stake president wants to talk to you about something you're comfortable talking about, that's one thing, but if they are calling you in to call you to repentance and/or threaten you with discipline, you don't have to go if you don't want to.


This. Been there, done that. Make sure you know the nature of the visit and what the agenda is before you agree to a meeting. Meet them on your terms. Invite them to your house for the meeting.


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 Post subject: Re: Stake President Wants to Talk with Me
PostPosted: Wed Sep 13, 2017 11:28 pm 
Prophet
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You really ought to push for excommunication and the kangaroo court that precedes it. Except really do it up right by not attending and instead have an excommunication party at a bar or hotel and broadcast it live. You could have a correspondent at the scene awaiting the predetermined verdict doing remotes periodically, attempting to interview the bozos and dodos there. Then when the verdict is reached everyone can take a victory shot .....


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 Post subject: Re: Stake President Wants to Talk with Me
PostPosted: Wed Sep 13, 2017 11:34 pm 
the very elect
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Dr. Shades wrote:
First, ask what it'll be about.
Second, make sure that it's at your house, not at his office.
Third, call him by his first name, not by his title.

Yep. Exactly what I did.

Watching his face contort after calling him by his first name is a wonderful thing to watch.

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 Post subject: Re: Stake President Wants to Talk with Me
PostPosted: Wed Sep 13, 2017 11:36 pm 
the very elect
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consig, is your daughter back from her mission?

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