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 Post subject: FOX NEWS is the MEDIA OUTLET FOR WHITE SUPREMACISM
PostPosted: Tue Aug 06, 2019 5:37 am 
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This video pretty much nails down that point

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_cont ... CHaSGaUAk8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_cont ... E1q4Ea9b4Y


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 Post subject: Re: FOX NEWS is the MEDIA OUTLET FOR WHITE SUPREMACISM
PostPosted: Tue Aug 06, 2019 11:26 am 
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You'd think that if you wanted to promote the idea that Caucasians are supreme, you'd put better examples of white people on your screen.

But then, nobody ever accused white supremacists of thinking logically.

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 Post subject: Re: FOX NEWS is the MEDIA OUTLET FOR WHITE SUPREMACISM
PostPosted: Tue Aug 06, 2019 1:03 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: FOX NEWS is the MEDIA OUTLET FOR WHITE SUPREMACISM
PostPosted: Tue Aug 06, 2019 1:23 pm 
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This is what I was talking about in the other thread Perfume. You dismissed it as the board has nothing to do with legislation. Why don't you or Kevin tell me how the hell I can legitimately be concerned about border security and my tax dollars going to productive border security without being a white supremacist?

mikwut

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 Post subject: Re: FOX NEWS is the MEDIA OUTLET FOR WHITE SUPREMACISM
PostPosted: Tue Aug 06, 2019 2:14 pm 
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mikwut wrote:
Why don't you or Kevin tell me how the hell I can legitimately be concerned about border security and my tax dollars going to productive border security without being a white supremacist?

LOL... wow.

I'm legitimately concerned about border security and my tax dollars going to productive border security without being a white supremacist. I think it's funny you've conflated the two... right along with Fux News.

Are you concerned about the northern border? Does that concern have something to do with white supremacy?

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 Post subject: Re: FOX NEWS is the MEDIA OUTLET FOR WHITE SUPREMACISM
PostPosted: Tue Aug 06, 2019 3:46 pm 
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Perfume,

This is why the 180 divide on the media is so problematic. If someone says anything that sounds like a defense of FoxNews or Trump they fully endorse it. I watched the clips and saw some fox news clips intertwined with other non Fox News clips were much more supremacist in their tone. What is the FoxNews dog whistles I am just too dumb to see that are white supremacist?

mikwut

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 Post subject: Re: FOX NEWS is the MEDIA OUTLET FOR WHITE SUPREMACISM
PostPosted: Tue Aug 06, 2019 3:51 pm 
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mikwut wrote:
... What is the FoxNews dog whistles I am just too dumb to see that are white supremacist?

mikwut

Here’s one, from one of their major headline personalities:

Tucker Carlson, 12/13/18:

Our leaders demand that you shut up and accept this. We have a moral obligation to admit the world’s poor, they tell us, even if it makes our own country poorer, and dirtier, and more divided. Immigration is a form of atonement.”


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 Post subject: Re: FOX NEWS is the MEDIA OUTLET FOR WHITE SUPREMACISM
PostPosted: Tue Aug 06, 2019 4:03 pm 
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mikwut wrote:
This is why the 180 divide on the media is so problematic. If someone says anything that sounds like a defense of FoxNews or Trump they fully endorse it.

It becomes a strawman when you describe enabling a behavior the same as "fully endorsing it." It exposes the fact that you're not processing the specific criticisms.

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 Post subject: Re: FOX NEWS is the MEDIA OUTLET FOR WHITE SUPREMACISM
PostPosted: Tue Aug 06, 2019 5:07 pm 
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Hi canpakes,

Quote:
“Our leaders demand that you shut up and accept this. We have a moral obligation to admit the world’s poor, they tell us, even if it makes our own country poorer, and dirtier, and more divided. Immigration is a form of atonement.”

I'm understanding you correctly that is veiled white supremacy? Is it the word dirtier? I'm sincerely asking. One of my biggest pet peeves with politics is that sincere questions are taken as game playing, I'm not, I can sincerely say I'm wrong. But can you parse that for me like I'm a kindergartner?

mikwut

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 Post subject: Re: FOX NEWS is the MEDIA OUTLET FOR WHITE SUPREMACISM
PostPosted: Tue Aug 06, 2019 5:14 pm 
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mikwut wrote:
Why don't you or Kevin tell me how the hell I can legitimately be concerned about border security and my tax dollars going to productive border security without being a white supremacist?
mikwut

Well you could start by defining "productive border security." You can follow that up by demonstrating using a valid argument, that this is worth really being concerned about. Border crossings had been at all time lows when Trump became President yet suddenly it is treated like the worst national security crisis since the bay of pigs.


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 Post subject: Re: FOX NEWS is the MEDIA OUTLET FOR WHITE SUPREMACISM
PostPosted: Tue Aug 06, 2019 5:23 pm 
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mikwut wrote:
Perfume,
What is the FoxNews dog whistles I am just too dumb to see that are white supremacist?

Well, if you read the manifesto by the El Paso murderer. It sounds very much like the narratives played out on FOX News on a daily basis. "Infested" "Animals" "Invasion" are all trigger words used by white supremacists and they're also used regularly on FOX News. We can begin with their constant use of the term "invasion."

The word "invasion" carries with it a certain connotation. If two thousand people in the street see a tornado and run into a nearby Walmart for shelter, you're likely not going to describe that as an "invasion." But Trump and FOX news use this word to describe brown Hispanic migrants all the time. The first definitions of invasion are:

Quote:
1. an act or instance of invading or entering as an enemy, especially by an army."
2. the entrance or advent of anything troublesome or harmful, as disease.
3. entrance as if to take possession or overrun

So is it really any wonder that some folks feel it is their patriotic duty to shoot them? Armed militia have been showing up at the southern border for this reason. And if you read the manifesto the El Paso murderer doesn't feel like he did anything wrong, and even said the Native Americans were only dominated by Europeans because they didn't take the invasion seriously enough.

Here is a former Neo-Nazis explaining to Megan Kelly how FOX News took commonly understood White Supremacist jargon and "massaged them" into normalcy. https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_cont ... pkU6skEW7c


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 Post subject: Re: FOX NEWS is the MEDIA OUTLET FOR WHITE SUPREMACISM
PostPosted: Tue Aug 06, 2019 6:08 pm 
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Thanks Kevin,

Quote:
Well, if you read the manifesto by the El Paso murderer. It sounds very much like the narratives played out on FOX News on a daily basis. "Infested" "Animals" "Invasion" are all trigger words used by white supremacists and they're also used regularly on FOX News. We can begin with their constant use of the term "invasion."

The word "invasion" carries with it a certain connotation. If two thousand people in the street see a tornado and run into a nearby Walmart for shelter, you're likely not going to describe that as an "invasion." But Trump and FOX news use this word to describe brown Hispanic migrants all the time. The first definitions of invasion are:

Quote:
1. an act or instance of invading or entering as an enemy, especially by an army."
2. the entrance or advent of anything troublesome or harmful, as disease.
3. entrance as if to take possession or overrun

So is it really any wonder that some folks feel it is their patriotic duty to shoot them? Armed militia have been showing up at the southern border for this reason. And if you read the manifesto the El Paso murderer doesn't feel like he did anything wrong, and even said the Native Americans were only dominated by Europeans because they didn't take the invasion seriously enough.

Here is a former Neo-Nazis explaining to Megan Kelly how FOX News took commonly understood White Supremacist jargon and "massaged them" into normalcy. https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_cont ... pkU6skEW7c

So sincere question. Am I to understand (I watched the clip), that Trump and associates and Fox News are in fact personally researched and shall we say fluent in the colloquialisms of small enclaves of hard core white supremacists? And they use this understanding (that they obtained because why and how exactly?) to wink at these small enclaves of actual violent neo nazis to commit awful crimes and acts such as what happened in El Paso? Doesn't that harm the very political agendas they have from the Republican side of the fence that I suppose they are dog whistling to support? What's the political goal? Are the Fox News hosts and Trump just trojan horses that really are actual violent neo nazis themselves? Sincere questions.

mikwut

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 Post subject: Re: FOX NEWS is the MEDIA OUTLET FOR WHITE SUPREMACISM
PostPosted: Tue Aug 06, 2019 6:25 pm 
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mikwut wrote:
Hi canpakes,

Quote:
“Our leaders demand that you shut up and accept this. We have a moral obligation to admit the world’s poor, they tell us, even if it makes our own country poorer, and dirtier, and more divided. Immigration is a form of atonement.”

I'm understanding you correctly that is veiled white supremacy? Is it the word dirtier? I'm sincerely asking. One of my biggest pet peeves with politics is that sincere questions are taken as game playing, I'm not, I can sincerely say I'm wrong. But can you parse that for me like I'm a kindergartner?

mikwut

There are a few opportunities for both racism and bigotry within this passage.

Our leaders demand that you shut up and accept this.
We are being persecuted, punished. We are being forced to tolerate the existence of folks unlike ourselves, by those terrible elites.

We have a moral obligation to admit the world’s poor, they tell us, ...
More persecution of the favored class! We earned our wealth and now we are being forced to share it with people who are poorer by virtue of not being the same as us. All immigrants are here to take.

... even if it makes our own country poorer, and dirtier,
Let's persecute the favored class further by forcing upon us people who are 'less than', who are dirtier by mere virtue of being from some other country, or because they are different from us.

... and more divided.
We, the favored class, cannot ever accept them because we assume they cannot accept us. We will decide to be divided from them.

Immigration is a form of atonement.
We, the favored class, are being punished, for being better, or wealthier, or not like them.

...

And so on. I don't see anything within that passage that doesn't harken to our worst tendencies. Do you?

mikwut, if you do, why do you necessarily fear for your safety from border crossers any more so than from any random stranger?


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 Post subject: Re: FOX NEWS is the MEDIA OUTLET FOR WHITE SUPREMACISM
PostPosted: Tue Aug 06, 2019 9:05 pm 
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Hi canpakes,

Quote:
And so on. I don't see anything within that passage that doesn't harken to our worst tendencies. Do you?


Isn't that a not so trivial definition of politics per se? I believe what is happening is both sides of the political fence do this. It then becomes a balancing. When I was a young lawyer the most difficult lesson I had to learn (which I think is common) was learning how to say no. I was exuberant and sincerely interested in helping people. Unfortunately, this often opened the door for failing to make sure economics is properly taken care of and turning a client away if the economics can't reasonably be met. Being nice isn's always nice and when you are handling too many cases that you aren't getting paid for disaster is looming not so far away. So personal ability to provide compassion and open arms is often weighed against practical wisdom. A lack of wisdom is also a base tendency. If I refuse to take a case from a member of another ethnicity because I can't do the economics of the matter doesn't make me a white supremacist and just because the same issues are involved on a national scale doesn't change that either.

Quote:
mikwut, if you do, why do you necessarily fear for your safety from border crossers any more so than from any random stranger?


I was in the military. I am use to being on top of my belongings and aware of my surroundings. I do have a security system. I respect all safety matters. I don't deny immigrants looking for a better life crossing and tend to be compassionate but I also don't deny drugs crossing as well. I hope it isn't my naïve Mormon upbringing but I retain a belief that we do have an opioid crisis and fentanyl is a killer that does in fact cross the border. I have little doubt after spending time in Juarez that the Cartel uses seeming innocents to traffic criminal activity. I would be naïve not to. I do believe we have to answer the question of we are compassionate people but how much compassion is practical and affordable without harming our society. A balancing is necessary of compassion against pragmatic utility. I don't think either particular side is completely devoid of valid points. Calling one sides rhetoric dog whistling racism is I think not helping and avoiding those valid issues.

mikwut

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 Post subject: Re: FOX NEWS is the MEDIA OUTLET FOR WHITE SUPREMACISM
PostPosted: Tue Aug 06, 2019 9:22 pm 
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mikwut wrote:
So sincere question. Am I to understand (I watched the clip), that Trump and associates and Fox News are in fact personally researched and shall we say fluent in the colloquialisms of small enclaves of hard core white supremacists?


Maybe, but maybe not. It could simply be that these are the preferred terms used by people are are racists and that explains the coincidence. However we have learned several times in the past that FOX News passes along conspiracy theories and fake stories that originate from known white supremacist sources so either could be true.

Quote:
And they use this understanding (that they obtained because why and how exactly?) to wink at these small enclaves of actual violent neo nazis to commit awful crimes and acts such as what happened in El Paso? Doesn't that harm the very political agendas they have from the Republican side of the fence that I suppose they are dog whistling to support? What's the political goal?


The political goal is to garner more support from the people and encourage them to hate minorities as much as they do so the Republicans can stay in power longer and enact more racist legislation that is designed to hurt minorities. Of course they're not going to come right out and say that's their goal, but like the gentleman in the video explained, they don't need to say it. The bull horn is loud and clearly to overt racists like notorious White Supremacists but they're dog whistles to people who are indoctrinated to believe minorities present a threat to their precious white culture. FOX News propagates this narrative just as much and more effectively than any 8chan fringe message forum. Their audience, as they love to boast, is in the millions every night.

Quote:
Are the Fox News hosts and Trump just trojan horses that really are actual violent neo nazis themselves? Sincere questions.


I doubt it, but remember the murderer who killed all those people in El Paso didn't believe he did anything wrong because he was just being a patriot defending his homeland. People do feel the need to do something like this unless they're being indoctrinated to feel attacked all the time, and night after night this is what FOX News does. No wonder the El Paso shooter was a fan of Bill O'Reilly.


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 Post subject: Re: FOX NEWS is the MEDIA OUTLET FOR WHITE SUPREMACISM
PostPosted: Tue Aug 06, 2019 9:39 pm 
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mikwut wrote:
A balancing is necessary of compassion against pragmatic utility. I don't think either particular side is completely devoid of valid points. Calling one sides rhetoric dog whistling racism is I think not helping and avoiding those valid issues.

If right wing pundits talked about it in the terms you've chosen in this post (reasonable), there wouldn't be the racism distraction. That would be awesome.

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 Post subject: Re: FOX NEWS is the MEDIA OUTLET FOR WHITE SUPREMACISM
PostPosted: Tue Aug 06, 2019 9:40 pm 
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Far right material filters onto Fox News routinely. It's "researched" in the sense that there is a direct pipeline to Fox News content producers from far-right sources online. It seems to filter through a few go-betweens from sources like crazy message boards eventually into the teleprompters of on-air personalities. And it happens quickly. Fox News also has a variety of contributors who are straight-up white supremacists and are versed in the themes and jargon of modern white supremacist groups because they sympathize with their views. That's why white supremacist rhetoric ends up being shown on the station again and again.

Trump seems to both function as a source of inspiration for some of it and as an amplifier of it. It's been a year, but Trump echoing white nationalist talking points he heard on Tucker Carlson's white power hour about "white genocide" in South Africa come to mind as an example of how that works.


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 Post subject: Re: FOX NEWS is the MEDIA OUTLET FOR WHITE SUPREMACISM
PostPosted: Tue Aug 06, 2019 9:43 pm 
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canpakes wrote:
mikwut wrote:
... What is the FoxNews dog whistles I am just too dumb to see that are white supremacist?

mikwut

Here’s one, from one of their major headline personalities:

Tucker Carlson, 12/13/18:

Our leaders demand that you shut up and accept this. We have a moral obligation to admit the world’s poor, they tell us, even if it makes our own country poorer, and dirtier, and more divided. Immigration is a form of atonement.”


Tucker Carlson is vigorously competing with Sean Hannity for "person with their head furthest up their ass." It's a dead heat at the moment.

First, the Native Americans (here for 20,000 years or more) were occupying our God given lands so we had a little genocide to solve the problem. Then it was those filthy Irish (Hannity?) and their Catholic brethren (you know, Germans, etc.). Then, the Jews showed up. Can't have Jews.

Now, we're back to dealing with Native Americans again (we call them Mexicans these days).

Maybe it would be best to have everyone who's lineage isn't originally from this continent go back to where they came from. Oh, wait...

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 Post subject: Re: FOX NEWS is the MEDIA OUTLET FOR WHITE SUPREMACISM
PostPosted: Tue Aug 06, 2019 9:55 pm 
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Quasimodo wrote:

Maybe it would be best to have everyone who's lineage isn't originally from this continent go back to where they came from. Oh, wait...


Start with Trump and you got a deal Lucille. I'll be in Scotland using his blinking golf course.

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 Post subject: Re: FOX NEWS is the MEDIA OUTLET FOR WHITE SUPREMACISM
PostPosted: Tue Aug 06, 2019 10:09 pm 
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Hi Kevin,

Quote:
mikwut wrote:
So sincere question. Am I to understand (I watched the clip), that Trump and associates and Fox News are in fact personally researched and shall we say fluent in the colloquialisms of small enclaves of hard core white supremacists?

Maybe, but maybe not. It could simply be that these are the preferred terms used by people are are racists and that explains the coincidence. However we have learned several times in the past that FOX News passes along conspiracy theories and fake stories that originate from known white supremacist sources so either could be true.


I don't have a problem with your criticism of Fox News for particular instances. The media has become a wwe ratings festival each side uses the other as its heel. CNN and MSNBC fail in the same way and if that isn't recognized I don't know what to say. As human beings being able to ascribe a motive lends some semblance of order to tragedy and to very complex intermingled issues. We have to recognize this in ourselves. But that isn't good TV. No offense, and I hope you take this in the spirit of respectful debate. Calling White Supremacy as the boogie man that answers the motive question and offers answers to give us order isn't very satisfying. I have that tendency because of my Mormon upbringing, a need for cozy and easy answers. Black and white answers we had as young Mormons. Also no offense but the following also sounds to me like a possible conspiracy theory that you just got done criticizing fox news for:

Quote:
Quote:
And they use this understanding (that they obtained because why and how exactly?) to wink at these small enclaves of actual violent neo nazis to commit awful crimes and acts such as what happened in El Paso? Doesn't that harm the very political agendas they have from the Republican side of the fence that I suppose they are dog whistling to support? What's the political goal?

The political goal is to garner more support from the people and encourage them to hate minorities as much as they do so the Republicans can stay in power longer and enact more racist legislation that is designed to hurt minorities. Of course they're not going to come right out and say that's their goal, but like the gentleman in the video explained, they don't need to say it. The bull horn is loud and clearly to overt racists like notorious White Supremacists but they're dog whistles to people who are indoctrinated to believe minorities present a threat to their precious white culture. FOX News propagates this narrative just as much and more effectively than any 8chan fringe message forum. Their audience, as they love to boast, is in the millions every night.


Pretty conspiratorial.

Quote:
Quote:
Are the Fox News hosts and Trump just trojan horses that really are actual violent neo nazis themselves? Sincere questions.

I doubt it, but remember the murderer who killed all those people in El Paso didn't believe he did anything wrong because he was just being a patriot defending his homeland. People do feel the need to do something like this unless they're being indoctrinated to feel attacked all the time, and night after night this is what FOX News does. No wonder the El Paso shooter was a fan of Bill O'Reilly.


I don't like Bill.

mikwut

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 Post subject: Re: FOX NEWS is the MEDIA OUTLET FOR WHITE SUPREMACISM
PostPosted: Tue Aug 06, 2019 10:13 pm 
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Hi Perfume:

Quote:
mikwut wrote:
A balancing is necessary of compassion against pragmatic utility. I don't think either particular side is completely devoid of valid points. Calling one sides rhetoric dog whistling racism is I think not helping and avoiding those valid issues.

If right wing pundits talked about it in the terms you've chosen in this post (reasonable), there wouldn't be the racism distraction. That would be awesome.


I am glad to have found some semblance of agreement.

mikwut

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