Obama on Russia: Who can?????t Forget!

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_Kevin Graham
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Re: Obama on Russia: Who can’t Forget!

Post by _Kevin Graham »

The Mueller report demonstrates:

1. Russia most definitely interfered in the election for the purpose of helping Trump.
2. The Trump campaign knew about it and welcomed it.
3. Russia expected to benefit from a Trump presidency.
4. Trump campaign expected to benefit from Russian interference.
5. When the Trump campaign realized what Russia was doing, they didn't report it to the FBI. That in and of itself would be grounds for execution (in the eyes of the Right) had it been Obama.
6. Trump stood on the world stage in Helsinki two years later and basically said US intelligence was untrustworthy and incompetent, while Vladimir Putin was an honorable person who told the truth.

Now Trump and his idiotic minions are trying to turn this around and blame Obama.
_Markk
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Re: Obama on Russia: Who can’t Forget!

Post by _Markk »

Maksutov wrote:

So you won't put up anything. But you can accuse me of ad-homs. Right. :lol:

You didn't read it. But you made up all kinds of stuff about it. That's not an ad hom, that's a fact, you're lying just like Sarah Huckabee Sanders lied about Comey. Lying is the only way you can defend it. I understand. Keep trying to change the subject. Yeah, we can talk about Obama. We can talk about Bush 43 and Bush 41. We can talk about Clinton. We can talk about Reagan. We can talk about Nixon. We can talk about everybody except the man who is president, who needs action to contain, right now.

Do we need to go back and look at both parties? Hell yeah. But when the Senate won't even allow for impeachment, no matter how deserved, we are not on the road to defeating partisanship. Just the opposite.



Mak,

Russia intervened in our election, this past one and ones before. Are you denying it? Given that it is a fact, and that it happened on Obama's watch, and per the question in the OP, and Bach's link.

Here is my OP to Chap, please read it again.

posting.php?mode=quote&f=5&p=1177742

At least you agree we should go back and see how the past administrations may have failed in protecting our election system, so we can do a better job next time around. This has nothing to do with Trump and impeachment, it has to do with Obama missing the Russian threat...not only in the election but the geopolitical theater overseas.
Don't take life so seriously in that " sooner or later we are just old men in funny clothes" "Tom 'T-Bone' Wolk"
_Kevin Graham
_Emeritus
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Joined: Fri Oct 27, 2006 6:44 pm

Re: Obama on Russia: Who can’t Forget!

Post by _Kevin Graham »

Markk you're intentionally being obtuse by trying to equate. It is a long time tactic among Right Wingers to blow serious issues aside with the ole "But what about (fill in the blank)"...

First of all we didn't know Russia had attacked the DNC server until December of 2016 and Obama immediately started ousting Russian diplomats and closing Russian compounds. This was at the very end of his Presidency.

Trump on the other hand, knew about Russian interference and he WELCOMED it because, as the Mueller report said, the Trump campaign expected to benefit from it.

Then to make matters worse, he lied by saying they didn't interfere at all.

Even after the Mueller Report, which you claim to agree with, Trump is still calling the Russian interference a "hoax."

But please tell us how concerned you are about it while trying to blame Obama.

WE KNOW WHAT IS HAPPENING UNDER TRUMPS WATCH IN REAL TIME AND HE DOESN'T CARE!
_EAllusion
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Re: Obama on Russia: Who can’t Forget!

Post by _EAllusion »

Markk wrote:At least you agree we should go back and see how the past administrations may have failed in protecting our election system, so we can do a better job next time around. This has nothing to do with Trump and impeachment, it has to do with Obama missing the Russian threat...not only in the election but the geopolitical theater overseas.


"The Russian threat" in this case is harming the United States by efforting to ensure Donald Trump is elected President while Donald Trump provided cover for them. This, in your view, has "nothing to do with Trump."

Mitch McConnell specifically attempted to kneecap the Obama admin public response to growing US awareness of Russian efforts to interfere in the US election on behalf of Mitch McConnell's political goals. Was Obama at fault for not risking the appearance of partisanship in the eyes of voters like Markk and being more aggressive in disregarding McConnnell? In retrospect, yes. Is Obama more to blame about this than Mitch McConnell? Are you high?
_Maksutov
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Re: Obama on Russia: Who can’t Forget!

Post by _Maksutov »

Markk wrote:
Maksutov wrote:

So you won't put up anything. But you can accuse me of ad-homs. Right. :lol:

You didn't read it. But you made up all kinds of stuff about it. That's not an ad hom, that's a fact, you're lying just like Sarah Huckabee Sanders lied about Comey. Lying is the only way you can defend it. I understand. Keep trying to change the subject. Yeah, we can talk about Obama. We can talk about Bush 43 and Bush 41. We can talk about Clinton. We can talk about Reagan. We can talk about Nixon. We can talk about everybody except the man who is president, who needs action to contain, right now.

Do we need to go back and look at both parties? Hell yeah. But when the Senate won't even allow for impeachment, no matter how deserved, we are not on the road to defeating partisanship. Just the opposite.



Mak,

Russia intervened in our election, this past one and ones before. Are you denying it? Given that it is a fact, and that it happened on Obama's watch, and per the question in the OP, and Bach's link.

Here is my OP to Chap, please read it again.

posting.php?mode=quote&f=5&p=1177742

At least you agree we should go back and see how the past administrations may have failed in protecting our election system, so we can do a better job next time around. This has nothing to do with Trump and impeachment, it has to do with Obama missing the Russian threat...not only in the election but the geopolitical theater overseas.


Russia was against Hillary Clinton, not just pro-Trump. They didn't like her actions as Secretary of State and her position with our allies re: Putin. Trump would rather crap all over everything since the Marshall Plan.
"God" is the original deus ex machina. --Maksutov
_honorentheos
_Emeritus
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Joined: Thu Feb 04, 2010 5:17 am

Re: Obama on Russia: Who can’t Forget!

Post by _honorentheos »

Markk wrote:
Maksutov wrote:

So you won't put up anything. But you can accuse me of ad-homs. Right. :lol:

You didn't read it. But you made up all kinds of stuff about it. That's not an ad hom, that's a fact, you're lying just like Sarah Huckabee Sanders lied about Comey. Lying is the only way you can defend it. I understand. Keep trying to change the subject. Yeah, we can talk about Obama. We can talk about Bush 43 and Bush 41. We can talk about Clinton. We can talk about Reagan. We can talk about Nixon. We can talk about everybody except the man who is president, who needs action to contain, right now.

Do we need to go back and look at both parties? Hell yeah. But when the Senate won't even allow for impeachment, no matter how deserved, we are not on the road to defeating partisanship. Just the opposite.



Mak,

Russia intervened in our election, this past one and ones before. Are you denying it?

Yes. Russia did not "intervene" in our election.

What Russia appears to have done is expertly maneuvered at the political fault lines to take advantage of our increasing divisiveness in order to create discord among us, a geopolitical adversary, that makes us less effective on the global stage. They favored the election of one candidate over the other, and sought to influence thinking about the candidates in ways that discouraged voting for the candidate they did not want to see win.

It turned out to have influenced (the word you were looking for) the election because it turns out decades of anti-Clinton propaganda and conservative media fear-mongering has created a sizable section of the electorate that isn't considering politics being about issues any more. Rather, politics is seen as a war between a good side and an evil side. And in that context, anything is permissible if it is done for one's side regardless of it's ethics or grounding in facts. Only one fact is needed: One side is right and the other side is evil.

It's only in this environment where you can go after Obama for trying to appear to not influence the election while ignoring Trump had direct knowledge of what the Russians were doing and failed to do the most basic, ethical, patriotic thing - turn the Russians in to the FBI.
The world is always full of the sound of waves..but who knows the heart of the sea, a hundred feet down? Who knows it's depth?
~ Eiji Yoshikawa
_subgenius
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Re: Obama on Russia: Who can’t Forget!

Post by _subgenius »

honorentheos wrote:..._______ had direct knowledge of what the Russians were doing and failed to do the most basic, ethical, patriotic thing - turn the Russians in to the FBI.

How many active American political entities in 2016 can we use to fill in-the-blank?
Seek freedom and become captive of your desires...seek discipline and find your liberty
I can tell if a person is judgmental just by looking at them
what is chaos to the fly is normal to the spider - morticia addams
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_Markk
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Re: Obama on Russia: Who can’t Forget!

Post by _Markk »

In regards to the last tree posts, did you guys read the OP?

Question: Will the Dodgers make it to the World Series?

Answer: Trump Colluded with Russia.

The real Question to this OP, is whether or not Obama had a clue of what was happening under his watch, in regards to Russia and our election.
Don't take life so seriously in that " sooner or later we are just old men in funny clothes" "Tom 'T-Bone' Wolk"
_honorentheos
_Emeritus
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Re: Obama on Russia: Who can’t Forget!

Post by _honorentheos »

subgenius wrote:
honorentheos wrote:..._______ had direct knowledge of what the Russians were doing and failed to do the most basic, ethical, patriotic thing - turn the Russians in to the FBI.

How many active American political entities in 2016 can we use to fill in-the-blank?

You tell me. Because if you mean Obama, you need to remember the FBI was investigating Russian interference. OH YEAH! YOU think that that was actually the White House spying on Trump. Jesus, you guys and your screwed up worldview...
The world is always full of the sound of waves..but who knows the heart of the sea, a hundred feet down? Who knows it's depth?
~ Eiji Yoshikawa
_honorentheos
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Joined: Thu Feb 04, 2010 5:17 am

Re: Obama on Russia: Who can’t Forget!

Post by _honorentheos »

Markk wrote:In regards to the last tree posts, did you guys read the OP?

Trump knew the Russians were trying to influence the election and, rather than go to the FBI, his associates became a trough the Russians came back to at least 17 times according to the Mueller investigation. The Mueller investigation was a follow-up on the FBI investigation of George Papadopoulos, who was being recruited by Russian operatives, because Trump fired the head of the FBI over the FBI investigation of Russian interference. Trump going to the FBI at any point in this would have meant no Mueller investigation, and a lot of questions about his loyalties never being raised.

But let's gloss over the fact page one of this thread had a discussion regarding the geopolitics of the Obama administration that was directly engaging the Romney-Obama debate quote, if maybe above some people's heads apparently. But whatever man. Trump is better than Obama because Obama's on the side of evil. I get where your thinking comes from.

The real Question to this OP, is whether or not Obama had a clue of what was happening under his watch, in regards to Russia and our election.

Yeah, they did. They made a mistake in thinking that it was more risky to appear to be influencing the election by making it public when it appeared Clinton was going to win anyway, and decided to wait until after the election to do anything about it.

The Obama admin was also working to secure Russian cooperation in other parts of the world including working on the Iran nuclear deal in the previous years on top of dealing with the Russian aggressions in Ukraine as well as the multi-front multi-national efforts in Syria.

Trump had one obvious, clear obligation: Report Russian activity against the United States. And he failed to do that multiple times because he saw it as favoring him. But again, he was against Clinton and she is on the side of evil so it doesn't matter. Again, I get where you are coming from, Markk. You think you're fighting against evil.
The world is always full of the sound of waves..but who knows the heart of the sea, a hundred feet down? Who knows it's depth?
~ Eiji Yoshikawa
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