Why Brits Don't Like Trump

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_Chap
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Re: Why Brits Don't Like Trump

Post by _Chap »

Gunnar wrote:That description of Trump is so obviously right on that it is amazing to me how anyone other than thugs and half-wits can fail to see it.


That is likely to be the first reaction from many people who have actually paid detailed attention to Trump's words and actions since he began the presidential campaign that led up to his election on a minority of the popular vote in 2016.

But think a bit more, and it is considerably less amazing that Trump could have been elected with the help of people who were, in the majority, not thugs or half-wits. You see, the kind of people who contribute to a discussion board like this one, whatever sides they are on politically, are by definition the kind of people who are willing to pay at least superficial attention to written expressions of views with which they disagree, and who have the habit of setting out their own views at length and in writing.

Most people, however, have neither the time nor the inclination for that kind of thing. They get their ideas about current political activity from whatever TV or cable news they happen upon while channel surfing, or maybe by listening to talk radio in their cars. Whatever views they happen to form, they are unlikely ever to set them out in writing, with citations of the evidence on which they are based. And once they have cast their vote for a candidate, they are unlikely to want to ask themselves whether they may have made a huge mistake. If anything, if they are confronted with evidence that suggests that their choice was a bad one, they're likely to feel their self-respect demands that should they double down in loyalty to that choice. Their ideas of the actual policies that their candidate has put forward may be far from reality. Remember the Trump voters who said they were sure he wouldn't touch their ACA insurance, despite him having said loudly and repeatedly that he was determined to destroy it?

People like that mostly voted for Trump without more than superficial attention to what he was and what he said he would do. And in many cases they haven't been all that much concerned to notice what he has been and still is doing after his election. You can criticise them for that, certainly. But "thugs and half-wits'? Probably not, I'd say.
Zadok:
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Maksutov:
That's the problem with this supernatural stuff, it doesn't really solve anything. It's a placeholder for ignorance.
_Gunnar
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Re: Why Brits Don't Like Trump

Post by _Gunnar »

Chap, I grant that my statement was overly hyperbolic, but I can't help but question the intelligence of people who determinedly blind themselves to the evidence of Trump's pathological dishonesty, bigotry, narcissism and willful ignorance. And certainly a significant percentage of them are rather like thugs and bullies, like those who beat up members of the media who try to cover Trump and his rallies. Nor is there much doubt that Trump actually encourages such attitudes, at least rhetorically, if not actually directing them explicitly to beat up his critics. And there is little doubt that he deliberately appeals to racism and xenophobia.

Trump either doesn't read well, or he is too intellectually lazy to do so. He would rather convince himself that he doesn't need to because he already knows everything he needs to know.
No precept or claim is more likely to be false than one that can only be supported by invoking the claim of Divine authority for it--no matter who or what claims such authority.

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_Maksutov
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Re: Why Brits Don't Like Trump

Post by _Maksutov »

Gunnar wrote:Chap, I grant that my statement was overly hyperbolic, but I can't help but question the intelligence of people who determinedly blind themselves to the evidence of Trump's pathological dishonesty, bigotry, narcissism and willful ignorance. And certainly a significant percentage of them are rather like thugs and bullies, like those who beat up members of the media who try to cover Trump and his rallies. Nor is there much doubt that Trump actually encourages such attitudes, at least rhetorically, if not actually directing them explicitly to beat up his critics. And there is little doubt that he deliberately appeals to racism and xenophobia.

Trump either doesn't read well, or he is too intellectually lazy to do so. He would rather convince himself that he doesn't need to because he already knows everything he needs to know.


Trump knows exactly what he's doing, just like Alex Jones. They are playing to resentment and ignorance. Conservatives and liberals have done this before but not on such a scale with such blatant corruption and attacks on virtually all institutions. It's more vandalism and anarchy than ideology. Smash and grab "philosophy". :rolleyes:
"God" is the original deus ex machina. --Maksutov
_canpakes
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Re: Why Brits Don't Like Trump

Post by _canpakes »

Very well put, Chap. I would change only one small item:

Chap wrote:And once they have cast their vote for a candidate, they are unlikely to want to ask themselves whether they may have made a huge mistake. If anything, if they are confronted with evidence that suggests that their choice was a bad one, they're likely to feel their self-respect pride demands that should they double down in loyalty to that choice.

Self-respect might demand that one honestly evaluate their choices and make changes when appropriate, versus simple pride, which brings people to dig in their heels because they will not self-evaluate.
_Gunnar
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Re: Why Brits Don't Like Trump

Post by _Gunnar »

Maksutov wrote:
Gunnar wrote:Chap, I grant that my statement was overly hyperbolic, but I can't help but question the intelligence of people who determinedly blind themselves to the evidence of Trump's pathological dishonesty, bigotry, narcissism and willful ignorance. And certainly a significant percentage of them are rather like thugs and bullies, like those who beat up members of the media who try to cover Trump and his rallies. Nor is there much doubt that Trump actually encourages such attitudes, at least rhetorically, if not actually directing them explicitly to beat up his critics. And there is little doubt that he deliberately appeals to racism and xenophobia.

Trump either doesn't read well, or he is too intellectually lazy to do so. He would rather convince himself that he doesn't need to because he already knows everything he needs to know.


Trump knows exactly what he's doing, just like Alex Jones. They are playing to resentment and ignorance. Conservatives and liberals have done this before but not on such a scale with such blatant corruption and attacks on virtually all institutions. It's more vandalism and anarchy than ideology. Smash and grab "philosophy". :rolleyes:


I have no doubt that Trump thinks he knows exactly what he's doing and that his primary aim is to use his position as President to enhance his personal wealth and power as much as possible. That is his only ideology. Smash and grab "philosophy" is an excellent way of putting it. I think, though, that he underestimates the intelligence and will of the majority of the American electorate, and that he is eventually heading for a very rude awakening. Even some of his hard core supporters are slowly coming to the realization that he has duped them, and that he is working against their best interests. Even Fox News is becoming increasingly critical of him.
No precept or claim is more likely to be false than one that can only be supported by invoking the claim of Divine authority for it--no matter who or what claims such authority.

“If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you; but if you really make them think, they'll hate you.”
― Harlan Ellison
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