Breaking News: Trump's Felony #2

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_Kevin Graham
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Re: Breaking News: Trump's Felony #2

Post by _Kevin Graham »

This is what the Special Counsel's office said about the Buzzfeed report:

BuzzFeed’s description of specific statements to the Special Counsel’s Office, and characterization of documents and testimony obtained by this office, regarding Michael Cohen’s Congressional testimony are not accurate.


Pundits have been banging their heads over this analyzing it to death, noting that it too over 20 hours before they said anything and it is a carefully worded statement for a reason. What it says is that the "description" and "characterization" of only those things pertaining to the Special Counsel's office was "not accurate." It doesn't say the entire thing is false, only that what Buzzfeed describes pertaining to the Mueller investigation isn't accurate. It could be one minor detail is wrong, and the SP office just says it isn't accurate and that would be true. We'll know in due time what they're referring to, but I couldn't help noticing how many Democrats were going on TV saying that if any of this is true then Mueller needs to be giving them this information ASAP so they can do their job and begin impeachment. I think he felt the need to nip that in the butt quickly by letting the world know that he doesn't have all of this corroborating evidence like Buzzfeed claims. It can also be the case that the SP office is doing this because the Buzzfeed article has the potential to impede their investigation in some way.

Other pundits pointed out that there are at least 17 investigated being done into Trump by 7 different prosecutors and the two sources for Buzzfeed are "law enforcement officials" which would really piss off Mueller to know anyone involved in an investigation would be leaking, and he is trying to distance himself from any insinuation that men from his office are the ones doing the leaking. These officials could very well be involved in the Southern District's investigation which was responsible for raiding Cohen's office. So it could be that what they reported from their sources is wrong on a technicality regarding what they assume the Special Counsel's office is aware of, but the sources and their documents can still be corroborated.

Here is the actual Buzzfeed report, and I'll highlight where it alludes to Mueller in any way:

President Donald Trump directed his longtime attorney Michael Cohen to lie to Congress about negotiations to build a Trump Tower in Moscow, according to two federal law enforcement officials involved in an investigation of the matter.

Trump also supported a plan, set up by Cohen, to visit Russia during the presidential campaign, in order to personally meet President Vladimir Putin and jump-start the tower negotiations. “Make it happen,” the sources said Trump told Cohen.

And even as Trump told the public he had no business deals with Russia, the sources said Trump and his children Ivanka and Donald Trump Jr. received regular, detailed updates about the real estate development from Cohen, whom they put in charge of the project.

Cohen pleaded guilty in November to lying about the deal in testimony and in a two-page statement to the Senate and House intelligence committees. Mueller noted that Cohen’s false claim that the project ended in January 2016 was an attempt to “minimize links between the Moscow Project and Individual 1” — widely understood to be Trump — “in hopes of limiting the ongoing Russia investigations.”

Now the two sources have told BuzzFeed News that Cohen also told the special counsel that after the election, the president personally instructed him to lie — by claiming that negotiations ended months earlier than they actually did — in order to obscure Trump’s involvement.

The special counsel’s office learned about Trump’s directive for Cohen to lie to Congress through interviews with multiple witnesses from the Trump Organization and internal company emails, text messages, and a cache of other documents. Cohen then acknowledged those instructions during his interviews with that office.

This revelation is not the first evidence to suggest the president may have attempted to obstruct the FBI and special counsel investigations into Russia’s interference in the 2016 election.

But Cohen's testimony marks a significant new frontier: It is the first known example of Trump explicitly telling a subordinate to lie directly about his own dealings with Russia.

On the campaign trail, Trump vehemently denied having any business interests in Russia. But behind the scenes, he was pushing the Moscow project, which he hoped could bring his company profits in excess of $300 million. The two law enforcement sources said he had at least 10 face-to-face meetings with Cohen about the deal during the campaign.

BuzzFeed News first reported last year that Cohen and an associate, Felix Sater, had continued working on Trump Tower Moscow through June 2016. Sater communicated with Russian bankers, developers, and officials connected to the Kremlin. That revelation was confirmed in Mueller’s filings against Cohen in court last November.

Attorneys close to the administration helped Cohen prepare his testimony and draft his statement to the Senate panel, the sources said. The sources did not say who the attorneys were or whether they were part of the White House counsel’s staff, and did not present evidence that the lawyers knew the statements would be false.

An attorney for Donald F. McGahn II, the former White House counsel who reportedly gave about 30 hours of testimony to the special counsel, told BuzzFeed News: “Don McGahn had no involvement with or knowledge of Michael Cohen’s testimony. Nor was he aware of anyone in the White House Counsel’s Office who did.”

After Cohen pleaded guilty to lying to Congress about the matter, Mueller’s team filed a memo in court saying he had offered them “credible” and “useful” information over the course of seven interviews. The special counsel wrote that Cohen had provided details about his contacts with “persons connected to the White House” in 2017 and 2018 and about how he had prepared his statements to Congress.

The White House did not return detailed messages seeking comment, nor did an attorney for Donald Trump Jr. or the Trump Organization.

A spokesperson for the Office of Special Counsel declined to comment.

Cohen also declined comment — but the law enforcement sources familiar with his testimony to the special counsel said he had confirmed that Trump directed him to lie to Congress, and also that he had provided details of his conversations about the project with the president and Ivanka and Donald Jr.

Those three members of the Trump family have distanced themselves from the Moscow project, saying that they had little knowledge of the negotiations. But a picture of their deep involvement is now emerging, as FBI agents and prosecutors pore over witness interviews and internal documents from Cohen and other Trump Organization officials and executives.

Trump was even made aware that Cohen was speaking to Russian government officials about the deal. The lawyer at one point spoke to a Kremlin aide as he sought support for the tower.

Trump also encouraged Cohen to plan a trip to Russia during the campaign, where the candidate could meet face-to-face with Putin.

BuzzFeed News has previously reported that text messages and emails show Sater — a real estate developer, convicted stock swindler, and longtime asset for US government intelligence agencies — worked furiously to arrange a trip for Cohen to the St. Petersburg International Economic Forum, where he was supposed to meet with top Russian bankers and government officials. Cohen told Sater that to advance the deal, Trump himself would also go to Russia, after the Republican National Convention in July 2016.


Cuomo noted tonight that the Southern District's report said Cohen lied at the direction of Individual 1 (Trump) but the Mueller report did not. This could be what Mueller is disputing?

"The special counsel’s office learned about Trump’s directive for Cohen to lie to Congress through interviews with multiple witnesses from the Trump Organization and internal company emails, text messages, and a cache of other documents. Cohen then acknowledged those instructions during his interviews with that office."

Did the Mueller report disclose this? If not, then this could be what's "not accurate."
_Chap
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Re: Breaking News: Trump's Felony #2

Post by _Chap »

Kevin Graham wrote:What it says is that the "description" and "characterization" of only those things pertaining to the Special Counsel's office was "not accurate." It doesn't say the entire thing is false, only that what Buzzfeed describes pertaining to the Mueller investigation isn't accurate. It could be one minor detail is wrong, and the stake president office just says it isn't accurate and that would be true. We'll know in due time what they're referring to, but I couldn't help noticing how many Democrats were going on TV saying that if any of this is true then Mueller needs to be giving them this information ASAP so they can do their job and begin impeachment. I think he felt the need to nip that in the butt quickly by letting the world know that he doesn't have all of this corroborating evidence like Buzzfeed claims. It can also be the case that the stake president office is doing this because the Buzzfeed article has the potential to impede their investigation in some way.

Other pundits pointed out that there are at least 17 investigated being done into Trump by 7 different prosecutors and the two sources for Buzzfeed are "law enforcement officials" which would really piss off Mueller to know anyone involved in an investigation would be leaking, and he is trying to distance himself from any insinuation that men from his office are the ones doing the leaking. These officials could very well be involved in the Southern District's investigation which was responsible for raiding Cohen's office. So it could be that what they reported from their sources is wrong on a technicality regarding what they assume the Special Counsel's office is aware of, but the sources and their documents can still be corroborated.


Yup. And I notice that it is not a good idea to use an abbreviation like the letters S followed by P for 'Special Prosecutor', because on this board that triggers expansion of the abbreviation into 'SP'. Like it did just then.
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_Xenophon
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Re: Breaking News: Trump's Felony #2

Post by _Xenophon »

The best part of the Muller clarification for me personally is that I know have on record at least a few Trump supporters in my life that Muller's characterization of events should be believed above other narratives. I'm sure they will remain logically consistent when his report is released.
"If you consider what are called the virtues in mankind, you will find their growth is assisted by education and cultivation." -Xenophon of Athens
_Kevin Graham
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Re: Breaking News: Trump's Felony #2

Post by _Kevin Graham »

The sad thing about this turn of events is that it will be consuming the media spotlight for the foreseeable future. Just last week we found out Manafort colluded with Russia while on the campaign, Trump's attorney lied on TV saying he never said the campaign didn't collude with Russia, Cohen admits to paying a firm to rig polls to benefit Trump, the government remains shutdown for a record period, nearly 400 migrants tunneled under a border wall and peacefully turned themselves in for Asylum processing, we learn the number of migrant children removed from their parents actually numbers in the thousands, I'm probably missing a couple of other things, but the point is all of this will be overshadowed by the "Liberal Media Bias" schtick.

Oh yeah, we find out the FBI has been investigating the President of the United States as a foreign agent of a hostile country. Move along, nothing to see here.
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_DarkHelmet
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Re: Breaking News: Trump's Felony #2

Post by _DarkHelmet »

Kevin Graham wrote:The sad thing about this turn of events is that it will be consuming the media spotlight for the foreseeable future. Just last week we found out Manafort colluded with Russia while on the campaign, Trump's attorney lied on TV saying he never said the campaign didn't collude with Russia, Cohen admits to paying a firm to rig polls to benefit Trump, the government remains shutdown for a record period, nearly 400 migrants tunneled under a border wall and peacefully turned themselves in for Asylum processing, we learn the number of migrant children removed from their parents actually numbers in the thousands, I'm probably missing a couple of other things, but the point is all of this will be overshadowed by the "Liberal Media Bias" schtick.


And it's the media's own fault. They're impatient with the Mueller investigation, like kids in the days leading up to christmas. They know it will be a glorious day when it arrives, but they can't help but try to peak in some of the presents ahead of time.
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_subgenius
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Re: Breaking News: Trump's Felony #2

Post by _subgenius »

More embarrassing than this Buzzfeed incident is the OP and KG's subsequent refusal to walk it back.
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_Chap
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Re: Breaking News: Trump's Felony #2

Post by _Chap »

Xenophon wrote:The best part of the Muller clarification for me personally is that I know have on record at least a few Trump supporters in my life that Muller's characterization of events should be believed above other narratives. I'm sure they will remain logically consistent when his report is released.


We shall see ... don't get your hopes up.

And, for the record, Mueller has not yet given a 'characterization of events' in this case. He has just said that

BuzzFeed’s description of specific statements to the Special Counsel’s Office, and characterization of documents and testimony obtained by this office, regarding Michael Cohen’s Congressional testimony are not accurate.


That statement has been carefully crafted to assert nothing positive at all. It does not deny that there have been specific statements' made or that testimony has been 'obtained by this office' relevant to the matters Buzzfeed discusses. It says that the description and characterisation of these 'are not accurate.' Some good work by a smart young lawyer there, I'd say.

Doubtless Cohen's testimony to the House of Representatives will tell us more in a few weeks.
Zadok:
I did not have a faith crisis. I discovered that the Church was having a truth crisis.
Maksutov:
That's the problem with this supernatural stuff, it doesn't really solve anything. It's a placeholder for ignorance.
_Kevin Graham
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Re: Breaking News: Trump's Felony #2

Post by _Kevin Graham »

DarkHelmet wrote:And it's the media's own fault. They're impatient with the Mueller investigation, like kids in the days leading up to christmas. They know it will be a glorious day when it arrives, but they can't help but try to peak in some of the presents ahead of time.


What the morons on the right don't get is that this was reported by EVERY outlet like this caveat:

"If true, and we don't have corroboration yet..."

It was never reported anywhere as if it were already an established fact.

And hell, even FOX News reported on the story as well.

Having said that, I don't think anyone really doubts that Trump ordered Cohen to lie to Congress. Of course he did. But what remains to be seen is whether there is corroborating evidence, and Buzzfeed stands by their story that such evidence exists. The statement by the special counsel's office doesn't negate the overall thrust of the story, it just says it was inaccurate insofar as the Special Counsel's office was involved.

The Right Wing media is acting like they just made this up from whole cloth. Like the two law enforcement sources don't exist at all.
_ajax18
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Re: Breaking News: Trump's Felony #2

Post by _ajax18 »

What the morons on the right don't get is that this was reported by EVERY outlet like this caveat:


Then why report on it at all? Oh that's right, the media has an agenda to drive and people to mislead.
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_MeDotOrg
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Re: Breaking News: Trump's Felony #2

Post by _MeDotOrg »

During the Watergate investigation, Woodward and Bernstein published a story where they got some of their facts wrong. I've forgotten the exact story, but they named someone as having control over a slush fund that was inaccurate. The method they had used to verify the story was misinterpreted by the person giving the verification.

Of course the White House landed on them like a ton of bricks. They learned a lesson. It is very dangerous to get ahead of your story.

Credit Mueller for issuing a correction. Credit the President for crediting Mueller. But if you're looking at this story as part of a vast left-wing conspiracy against the President, I don't think so, anymore than Watergate was a vast conspiracy against Nixon.

As for those who say there is a left wing conspiracy, many on the right have consistently called this investigation a witch hunt and have ignored the serious threat the Russian interference poses to our democratic institutions.
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