Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:The very best people.
Off to jail he goes. Sounds like his family will not be too upset by his absence.
"No Collusion, No Collusion"
Re: "No Collusion, No Collusion"
Off to jail he goes. Sounds like his family will not be too upset by his absence.
Zadok:
I did not have a faith crisis. I discovered that the Church was having a truth crisis.
Maksutov:
That's the problem with this supernatural stuff, it doesn't really solve anything. It's a placeholder for ignorance.
I did not have a faith crisis. I discovered that the Church was having a truth crisis.
Maksutov:
That's the problem with this supernatural stuff, it doesn't really solve anything. It's a placeholder for ignorance.
Re: "No Collusion, No Collusion"
Chap wrote:Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:The very best people.
Off to jail he goes. Sounds like his family will not be too upset by his absence.
I usually don't joke about prison rape. I'm not joking when I say this guy deserves some just for general karma.
"God" is the original deus ex machina. --Maksutov
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_subgenius
- _Emeritus
- Posts: 13326
- Joined: Thu Sep 01, 2011 12:50 pm
Re: "No Collusion, No Collusion"
Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:Not that anyone who needs to read this will:
https://np.reddit.com/r/politics/commen ... t/egkd6d8/
This isn't a link-n-run because the entirety of the link correlates proof of Trump's campaign colluding with the Russians. Also, I'd recommend reading the rest of the thread since there are some relevant comments regarding the topic.
- Doc
tldr:
Hillary did a bunch of illegal and unethical stuff. Some guys from Trump campaing and Wikileaks exposed it to voters who rightfully were entitled to know prior to voting. And Democrats feel like who deserves prosecution?
Seek freedom and become captive of your desires...seek discipline and find your liberty
I can tell if a person is judgmental just by looking at them
what is chaos to the fly is normal to the spider - morticia addams
If you're not upsetting idiots, you might be an idiot. - Ted Nugent
I can tell if a person is judgmental just by looking at them
what is chaos to the fly is normal to the spider - morticia addams
If you're not upsetting idiots, you might be an idiot. - Ted Nugent
Re: "No Collusion, No Collusion"
Maksutov wrote:I usually don't joke about prison rape. I'm not joking when I say this guy deserves some just for general karma.
imprisonment is the penalty imposed by law. The last thing a prison should be is lawless. Else whence does its legitimacy come?
Zadok:
I did not have a faith crisis. I discovered that the Church was having a truth crisis.
Maksutov:
That's the problem with this supernatural stuff, it doesn't really solve anything. It's a placeholder for ignorance.
I did not have a faith crisis. I discovered that the Church was having a truth crisis.
Maksutov:
That's the problem with this supernatural stuff, it doesn't really solve anything. It's a placeholder for ignorance.
-
_Kevin Graham
- _Emeritus
- Posts: 13037
- Joined: Fri Oct 27, 2006 6:44 pm
Re: "No Collusion, No Collusion"
subgenius wrote:tldr:
Hillary allegedly did a bunch of illegal and unethical stuff but there was never any evidence found despite incessant investigation. Several key officials in Trump's campaign, including his campaign manager and his son, colluded with a hostile foreign government Trump was indebted to in order to help win an election.
Fixed it for you.
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_Doctor CamNC4Me
- _Emeritus
- Posts: 21663
- Joined: Mon Jun 15, 2009 11:02 am
Re: "No Collusion, No Collusion"
You know, coming back to this thread, KG makes the key point in this: 'Indebted' to a hostile foreign government. The Trump family needed to get out of debt and make money. What kind of IOU has the Trump ticket written the Russians?
People need to realize this point is moot: whether or not Trump is actively aware, and intentionally operating on behalf of Russia, he has still done more in two years to advance the agenda of this hostile foreign nation, to the detriment of the US, than any other person in recent memory.
We seem hopelessly entangled in answering the question of whether he's knowingly operating on Russia's behalf and have neglected the fact that he is actively aiding Russia and harming us egregiously in the process. We have become blind to the what while we hunt for the why.
There is no circumstance where Trump ought not be immediately impeached for the things we have witnessed occur in plain sight. If you see someone on the street stabbing people, do you stand by on the sideline and ponder what events in this murderer's life led him to stab people? No, you remove him from the street and put him in a cell to prevent him from harming people, and then you uncover a motive.
Just consider what we know he has done:
》He advanced a withdrawal from Syria - against all counsel of all relevant experts - to Russia's delight. No explanation for this was ever provided to the American people.
》He has refused to enforce sanctions legally codified into law - and in some cases reversed standing sanctions on Russian companies. No explanation for this was ever provided to the American people.
》He has denounced his own intelligence agencies in a press conference with Putin on election meddling - and publicly endorsed Putin's version of events. No explanation for this was ever provided to the American people.
》He has conducted FIVE completely private meetings and conferences with Putin, and has gone to great lengths to prevent literally anyone, even people in his administration, from learning what was discussed. No explanation for this was ever provided to the American people.
》He has lied countless times about having business interests in Russia, which have been clearly and undeniably proven false in extremely public ways. No explanation for this was ever provided to the American people.
》He pulled out of the INF treaty, which allows Putin to create missiles that can threaten Europe with impunity, whereas before, there would be sanctions and severe penalties for doing so. The US already has all the weaponry that the INF would ban the development of, so this offers us literally nothing, while allowing Russia to develop powerful new weapons to challenge our allies. No explanation for this was ever provided to the American people.
》Trump insults the President of Montenegro, a country I am extremely confident he never knew existed up until that point, for literally no apparent reason... except Putin was furious at them. There's quite literally no possible other justification for this. I dare someone to even try. And of course, no explanation was ever provided to the American people.
》And no list would be complete without his repeated threats to pull out of NATO, over money, a move so catastrophically stupid, so inconceivably cosmically myopic, I truly can't express the profundity of the idiocy. Suffice to say, pulling out of NATO would be like the only guy in a prison yard with a shotgun just throwing it over the fence for absolutely no reason, suddenly giving the people with crude homemade shivs complete power. Again, no explanation beyond the pitiful ramblings of a single real estate con man was ever provided to the American people for this decision.
At every step, he has handed Russia enormous concessions with no justification. He takes Putin's word - a notorious liar - at face value, always, above all of his own countrymen, and even the people he himself hired to lead his agencies.
And just consider that very fact alone - the fact that Trump just keeps believing things, coincidentally the things Russia says - over what everyone in his own administration tell him. The CIA, FBI, and assorted US intelligence agencies are the largest and most equipped in the world. And Donald Trump just basically shrugged and said he believed Vladmir Putin instead - because... he seemed like a nice guy? The absurdity here is self-evident. Putin is the guy accused of the crime - interfering in our election - and the US president just believes his word over his own intelligence apparatus.
You cannot be a rational person and justify this. In no rational world is this defensible. This is either treason or profound and alarming incompetence and gullibility. There is no world, after Helsinki, where someone could have made the case that Trump ought to keep acting as Chief Executive of the US.
Now let's also remember, Russia is nothing compared to the US. The US has infinitely more muscle than Russia. This is why the policy - right up until Trump - has been to deal with them through sanctions and military conflicts where necessary.
They agitate, they hit and run, but Russia is an organized crime state whose economy is nearly collapsed, whose leadership consists of a coalition of loosely allied kleptocrats, oligarchs, and billionaires, all of whom are just as likely to knife each other as their foreign adversaries.
Had Clinton won, she would have continued her policy she advanced at the State Department, and sanctioned Russia until Putin's government imploded from the stress of Putin's brutality and kleptocracy. Which, obviously, is why he pulled out all the stops to ensure Clinton did not win the election.
The evidence is unambiguous. Trump - for reasons we do not know but ought not really care - betrayed, is betraying the US to Putin's Russia, each and every day.
So, I ask - why do we care whether he's a card-carrying Russian agent enthusiastic about the cause, a victim of blackmail, a seeker of quid pro quo, or just a really gullible imbecile?
He is clearly and transparently committing treason right out in the open. He has sacrificed our security and our interests to advance Russia's. Ignorance is not an excuse here. Let the courts sort that out, but this is far and away grossly impeachable behavior, and a level of embarrassing and humiliating subservience the likes of which have never been witnessed from an American leader on the world stage.
And let's not forget - let's always footnote talk about Trump's treason with the fact that this is just one of MANY separate, discrete, and unique massive, impeachable scandals. On top of pursuing the agenda of a hostile foreign nation, he also committed numerous acts of campaign finance violation, publicly attacked private citizens and the media, condemned his own agents and agencies for legally investigating him, told nearly ten thousand lies about things ranging from serious to extremely mundane, appointed his own family members to positions far above their capacity (breaking many ethics laws and vetting procedures to do so and get them security clearances).
And the list goes on and on and damned on. Seriously, it goes on and on and on and on. I could exhaust myself listing out the oaths Trump has betrayed, the crimes he has committed, the many more crimes he has probably committed, the Constitutional amendments he has attacked or condemned, all of which, in and of themselves, should warrant impeachment or serious scrutiny.
The last President was impeached, by Republicans, for one - one - count of perjury, about a meaningless sexual exploit. Which was an actual example of a perjury trap, by the way, wherein the prosecutor gets the defendant on the stand, on the record, for a crime - in this case, the Whitewater investigations into Clinton's real estate dealings, and then questions him about something embarassing but irrelevant and not illegal, compelling the defendant to lie and commit perjury to prevent embarassment.
That's what Republicans thought qualified a previous President for impeachment.
And now we come to Trump, who has a list of genuine impeachable criteria so long I legit can't remember all of them in one go. All of these individual scandals or crimes or gross acts of idiocy demonstrating severely compromised judgment and ability to execute the powers of the office.
And then you add actual treason on top of it. A violation of America and its interests not only inconceivable in its treachery, but to a far, far, far weaker adversary.
So what the “F” is he still doing in office? Well, the answer to that has been demonstrated over and over and over again on this board. And it's sad. It's really just sad. But we're here now, and it is what it is.
- Doc
People need to realize this point is moot: whether or not Trump is actively aware, and intentionally operating on behalf of Russia, he has still done more in two years to advance the agenda of this hostile foreign nation, to the detriment of the US, than any other person in recent memory.
We seem hopelessly entangled in answering the question of whether he's knowingly operating on Russia's behalf and have neglected the fact that he is actively aiding Russia and harming us egregiously in the process. We have become blind to the what while we hunt for the why.
There is no circumstance where Trump ought not be immediately impeached for the things we have witnessed occur in plain sight. If you see someone on the street stabbing people, do you stand by on the sideline and ponder what events in this murderer's life led him to stab people? No, you remove him from the street and put him in a cell to prevent him from harming people, and then you uncover a motive.
Just consider what we know he has done:
》He advanced a withdrawal from Syria - against all counsel of all relevant experts - to Russia's delight. No explanation for this was ever provided to the American people.
》He has refused to enforce sanctions legally codified into law - and in some cases reversed standing sanctions on Russian companies. No explanation for this was ever provided to the American people.
》He has denounced his own intelligence agencies in a press conference with Putin on election meddling - and publicly endorsed Putin's version of events. No explanation for this was ever provided to the American people.
》He has conducted FIVE completely private meetings and conferences with Putin, and has gone to great lengths to prevent literally anyone, even people in his administration, from learning what was discussed. No explanation for this was ever provided to the American people.
》He has lied countless times about having business interests in Russia, which have been clearly and undeniably proven false in extremely public ways. No explanation for this was ever provided to the American people.
》He pulled out of the INF treaty, which allows Putin to create missiles that can threaten Europe with impunity, whereas before, there would be sanctions and severe penalties for doing so. The US already has all the weaponry that the INF would ban the development of, so this offers us literally nothing, while allowing Russia to develop powerful new weapons to challenge our allies. No explanation for this was ever provided to the American people.
》Trump insults the President of Montenegro, a country I am extremely confident he never knew existed up until that point, for literally no apparent reason... except Putin was furious at them. There's quite literally no possible other justification for this. I dare someone to even try. And of course, no explanation was ever provided to the American people.
》And no list would be complete without his repeated threats to pull out of NATO, over money, a move so catastrophically stupid, so inconceivably cosmically myopic, I truly can't express the profundity of the idiocy. Suffice to say, pulling out of NATO would be like the only guy in a prison yard with a shotgun just throwing it over the fence for absolutely no reason, suddenly giving the people with crude homemade shivs complete power. Again, no explanation beyond the pitiful ramblings of a single real estate con man was ever provided to the American people for this decision.
At every step, he has handed Russia enormous concessions with no justification. He takes Putin's word - a notorious liar - at face value, always, above all of his own countrymen, and even the people he himself hired to lead his agencies.
And just consider that very fact alone - the fact that Trump just keeps believing things, coincidentally the things Russia says - over what everyone in his own administration tell him. The CIA, FBI, and assorted US intelligence agencies are the largest and most equipped in the world. And Donald Trump just basically shrugged and said he believed Vladmir Putin instead - because... he seemed like a nice guy? The absurdity here is self-evident. Putin is the guy accused of the crime - interfering in our election - and the US president just believes his word over his own intelligence apparatus.
You cannot be a rational person and justify this. In no rational world is this defensible. This is either treason or profound and alarming incompetence and gullibility. There is no world, after Helsinki, where someone could have made the case that Trump ought to keep acting as Chief Executive of the US.
Now let's also remember, Russia is nothing compared to the US. The US has infinitely more muscle than Russia. This is why the policy - right up until Trump - has been to deal with them through sanctions and military conflicts where necessary.
They agitate, they hit and run, but Russia is an organized crime state whose economy is nearly collapsed, whose leadership consists of a coalition of loosely allied kleptocrats, oligarchs, and billionaires, all of whom are just as likely to knife each other as their foreign adversaries.
Had Clinton won, she would have continued her policy she advanced at the State Department, and sanctioned Russia until Putin's government imploded from the stress of Putin's brutality and kleptocracy. Which, obviously, is why he pulled out all the stops to ensure Clinton did not win the election.
The evidence is unambiguous. Trump - for reasons we do not know but ought not really care - betrayed, is betraying the US to Putin's Russia, each and every day.
So, I ask - why do we care whether he's a card-carrying Russian agent enthusiastic about the cause, a victim of blackmail, a seeker of quid pro quo, or just a really gullible imbecile?
He is clearly and transparently committing treason right out in the open. He has sacrificed our security and our interests to advance Russia's. Ignorance is not an excuse here. Let the courts sort that out, but this is far and away grossly impeachable behavior, and a level of embarrassing and humiliating subservience the likes of which have never been witnessed from an American leader on the world stage.
And let's not forget - let's always footnote talk about Trump's treason with the fact that this is just one of MANY separate, discrete, and unique massive, impeachable scandals. On top of pursuing the agenda of a hostile foreign nation, he also committed numerous acts of campaign finance violation, publicly attacked private citizens and the media, condemned his own agents and agencies for legally investigating him, told nearly ten thousand lies about things ranging from serious to extremely mundane, appointed his own family members to positions far above their capacity (breaking many ethics laws and vetting procedures to do so and get them security clearances).
And the list goes on and on and damned on. Seriously, it goes on and on and on and on. I could exhaust myself listing out the oaths Trump has betrayed, the crimes he has committed, the many more crimes he has probably committed, the Constitutional amendments he has attacked or condemned, all of which, in and of themselves, should warrant impeachment or serious scrutiny.
The last President was impeached, by Republicans, for one - one - count of perjury, about a meaningless sexual exploit. Which was an actual example of a perjury trap, by the way, wherein the prosecutor gets the defendant on the stand, on the record, for a crime - in this case, the Whitewater investigations into Clinton's real estate dealings, and then questions him about something embarassing but irrelevant and not illegal, compelling the defendant to lie and commit perjury to prevent embarassment.
That's what Republicans thought qualified a previous President for impeachment.
And now we come to Trump, who has a list of genuine impeachable criteria so long I legit can't remember all of them in one go. All of these individual scandals or crimes or gross acts of idiocy demonstrating severely compromised judgment and ability to execute the powers of the office.
And then you add actual treason on top of it. A violation of America and its interests not only inconceivable in its treachery, but to a far, far, far weaker adversary.
So what the “F” is he still doing in office? Well, the answer to that has been demonstrated over and over and over again on this board. And it's sad. It's really just sad. But we're here now, and it is what it is.
- Doc
In the face of madness, rationality has no power - Xiao Wang, US historiographer, 2287 AD.
Every record...falsified, every book rewritten...every statue...has been renamed or torn down, every date...altered...the process is continuing...minute by minute. History has stopped. Nothing exists except an endless present in which the Ideology is always right.
Every record...falsified, every book rewritten...every statue...has been renamed or torn down, every date...altered...the process is continuing...minute by minute. History has stopped. Nothing exists except an endless present in which the Ideology is always right.
-
_Kevin Graham
- _Emeritus
- Posts: 13037
- Joined: Fri Oct 27, 2006 6:44 pm
Re: "No Collusion, No Collusion"
"Do you still believe the President could be a Russian asset?" asked CNN's Anderson Cooper during an interview with McCabe on "Anderson Cooper 360."
"I think it's possible. I think that's why we started our investigation, and I'm really anxious to see where (special counsel Robert) Mueller concludes that," McCabe said.
"I think it's possible. I think that's why we started our investigation, and I'm really anxious to see where (special counsel Robert) Mueller concludes that," McCabe said.
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_Doctor CamNC4Me
- _Emeritus
- Posts: 21663
- Joined: Mon Jun 15, 2009 11:02 am
Re: "No Collusion, No Collusion"
https://www.rollcall.com/news/congress/ ... mony-trump
Could you imagine the outcry from the Right had a Democratic Congressman pulled the same stunt toward an informer if the roles were reversed? Anyone on the Right see the problem with this?
- Doc
Republican Matt Gaetz threatens Cohen over ‘girlfriends’ on eve of testimony
The Florida congressman asked Cohen on Twitter, ‘Do your wife & father-in-law know about your girlfriends?’
Rep. Matt Gaetz appeared to openly intimidate President Donald Trump’s former personal lawyer Michael Cohen less than 24 hours before Cohen publicly testifies against his old boss in the House Oversight and Reform Committee.
Could you imagine the outcry from the Right had a Democratic Congressman pulled the same stunt toward an informer if the roles were reversed? Anyone on the Right see the problem with this?
- Doc
In the face of madness, rationality has no power - Xiao Wang, US historiographer, 2287 AD.
Every record...falsified, every book rewritten...every statue...has been renamed or torn down, every date...altered...the process is continuing...minute by minute. History has stopped. Nothing exists except an endless present in which the Ideology is always right.
Every record...falsified, every book rewritten...every statue...has been renamed or torn down, every date...altered...the process is continuing...minute by minute. History has stopped. Nothing exists except an endless present in which the Ideology is always right.
Re: "No Collusion, No Collusion"
Doctor CamNC4Me wrote: We have become blind to the what while we hunt for the why.
Ka-boom!"God" is the original deus ex machina. --Maksutov