conservative gratitude?

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_Gadianton
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conservative gratitude?

Post by _Gadianton »

Curious what a few of you think about this. As I recall it, back as a kid, my family, and conservatives that I knew (meaning everyone that I knew) considered themselves blessed in the same way the Zoramites saw themselves as blessed by God, and thanked God in backhanded ways for being better than everyone else -- fully deserving of their prosperity and riches, as compared to the poor, to non-whites, to people in third world countries, and so on. To sum it up, conservatives saw themselves as prosperous and blessed for some kind on inherent superiority, over and above their neighbors.

I feel like things have changed drastically. Today, I interact far less with the religious right, but over the years I've noticed some changes in basic perspective of those I run into, and lately, it's getting ridiculous. The right-wingers on this board certainly qualify as examples of this change, but my observations don't come from them, but from people I know in the real world.

More than one religious right-winger I know with assets in the low millions feels desperate, that they're about to go broke, and struggle to keep hold of the little bit of money they have left. What really drove the point home to me was the other day, one of these guys (with 5 houses and a couple mil in the bank) was questioning his latest trip to Europe because he wasn't sure if he should be spending so freely. He's been listening to right-wing financial consultants who have convinced him (apparently) that he needs a few more million than he has in order to properly retire -- and he's semi-retired. No job, but occasionally does real estate. Today, he went way over the top, desperate to get out and vote because liberal initiatives like "planned parenthood" cost so much money that he's liable to be cleaned out and what, starve? I couldn't get a clear answer. (he brings up politics, I try to avoid it). And it's not about his kids, who he perceives as slackers (I kind of agree, and yes, they are christian conservatives also), he wants to cut them out, if anything, and sometimes talks about divorcing his wife, and so it really comes down to having enough millions to support his own ass (which has 20 years at the most left), to put gas in his motorcycle and pay for a motor home and eat at this stupid cheap local restaurant he likes. He's not a big spender. He's rich, but perceives himself as barely above working class, and about to lose it all -- a victim who has desperately worked so hard his life for just about nothing. So desperate, that he took a trip on his bike to buy Powerball(?) tickets recently, as he was thinking about how he could use that money if he won it to have a taste of the good life he's been deprived of, even after I explained to him he doesn't have the capacity to spend a fraction of it, and it will all go to his kids who could rid themselves of that kind of cash in six months. He's self-made, a workaholic, (and minus his illogical thinking a really good guy who tries to help people), and not really grateful at all for what he has because he thinks he's struggling to make ends meet and a victim of the left wing.

He's kind of the extreme as far as people I know. Co-workers I've had speak roughly the same in terms of their finances thanks to the left, even though they do pretty well. More to the point, about a year and a half ago while sitting with my extended family, all millionaires and then some, got serious about their children's support of Trump. They themselves weren't quite so obvious as to say they support Trump, I mean, these are people seriously with not just money, but culture and manners, and so the justifications came in the form of the plights of their children and children's associates. All with high degrees completely paid for by them of course, and working in professional and executive positions in notable areas of the country (not Alabama Subs!) like liberal Sunnyvale. Trying to put my finger on the subtext of what was being said, it seemed as if the line of reasoning was that these kids are working so hard (and that is true!) and while low millionaires, didn't have the guaranteed free ride and lifestyle of leisure like the parents had, and so there was no gratitude that they had the means to pay for multiple degrees outright for the kids and that the kids were all somewhere between the 2% and 10% at worst, naturally bright, hard working and responsible, and good family people. There was mainly concern, concern they'd have enough, concern that what they had was coming at too high of a price, and that whatever it was Trump was against, was keeping them from the blessings they really deserved but weren't getting.

So to sum up, am I just imagining this, or has there been a transition over the last 30 years from the well-to-do religious right feeling victorious and blessed, to viewing themselves as underdogs, and rightly deserving far more than they have?
Lou Midgley 08/20/2020: "...meat wad," and "cockroach" are pithy descriptions of human beings used by gemli? They were not fashioned by Professor Peterson.

LM 11/23/2018: one can explain away the soul of human beings...as...a Meat Unit, to use Professor Peterson's clever derogatory description of gemli's ideology.
_canpakes
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Re: conservative gratitude?

Post by _canpakes »

There’s probably no surer way to a man’s heart than to tell him how persecuted he is. Then, to offer him a magical protection is the icing on the cake. We get that today with the guy in the White House, and this tactic works just as well on comparatively wealthy folks as well as any mid-America Joe Six Pack.

Gad, do most of these folks you mention that are fretting this way ever look at their own future health care needs and potential costs as drivers of their angst, or are they more inclined to concentrate solely on irrational causes such as PP for their potential financial ruin?
_Some Schmo
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Re: conservative gratitude?

Post by _Some Schmo »

I've come to the solid conclusion that most people on the right are inculcated and overwhelmed by BS. If there's been a change in the last 30 years, there's one primary reason:

Right wing media.

I know plenty of smart people who believe stupid things. It's so obvious how brainwashed the right is. If you have a conversation with a GOP voter, you can tell when they veer off into talking points because they all sound the same.

One of the most entertaining things to hear one say: no Russian made me vote the way I did.

Well sure... not that you're aware of, anyway. Brainwashing only works if you don't realize you've been manipulated.
God belief is for people who don't want to live life on the universe's terms.
_Gadianton
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Re: conservative gratitude?

Post by _Gadianton »

can,

I haven't heard much about healthcare or even obamacare. I think the PP thing was more of the worst example of government as he could think of as an (ex-junkie) Christian. I will have to find out who these financial planners are who influence him. (he's lost a crapload following sham Christian stock market gurus in the past) Honestly, while there is lots of typical right-wing complaining, there isn't much he's connected to his dire financial situation.

For my extended family, no suggestions at all. Just noting how difficult it is for the kids (who had all the advantages) these days -- as if something that should be guaranteed for them wasn't guaranteed. Even the talk about voting for Trump was incredibly nuanced, the children were voting for trump, it seemed to have something to do with their plights, but very non-specific. One point was made that they believed Trump would do what he said he'd do -- but I couldn't figure out what part of what he said he'd do that would make their lives better. this is when I started to think about the unexpected perspective of these people with advantages speaking as if they're the underdogs.

maybe i just don't know enough people or im reading something into it. was curious if others had noticed a change in their right-wing associates who are doing well, if there has been a shift in perception from being well-off, to barely making it; or instead of speaking as if they'd been "blessed" -- speaking as if they'd scraped for every last cent they have and owe nothing to anyone.
Lou Midgley 08/20/2020: "...meat wad," and "cockroach" are pithy descriptions of human beings used by gemli? They were not fashioned by Professor Peterson.

LM 11/23/2018: one can explain away the soul of human beings...as...a Meat Unit, to use Professor Peterson's clever derogatory description of gemli's ideology.
_ajax18
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Re: conservative gratitude?

Post by _ajax18 »

was curious if others had noticed a change in their right-wing associates who are doing well



No such luck with me Gadianton. I'm doing very well financially. I've never done better on taxes during my entire career than last year. I was incredibly busy today and didn't even have time to respond to your post. I was getting paid per patient rather than being taken advantage of on salary so I loved every minute of my stressful day. The further backed up my charts got, the more I liked it. I only had one person walk out because I took too long. Thankfully the old folks are patient because the OD doesn't come to town every day there.

I still live month to month because I'm a family man. I don't intend to ever retire. It's just part of the protestant work ethic passed down from my Virginia ancestors. When you're no longer useful, it's time to die.
And when the confederates saw Jackson standing fearless as a stone wall the army of Northern Virginia took courage and drove the federal army off their land.
_Gadianton
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Re: conservative gratitude?

Post by _Gadianton »

well ajax, you're certainly far on the religious right. If you're self-evaluating as well off, then I'll grant you're a counter-example to what I'm describing.
Congrats!
Lou Midgley 08/20/2020: "...meat wad," and "cockroach" are pithy descriptions of human beings used by gemli? They were not fashioned by Professor Peterson.

LM 11/23/2018: one can explain away the soul of human beings...as...a Meat Unit, to use Professor Peterson's clever derogatory description of gemli's ideology.
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