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 Post subject: Re: 1984 in 2018
PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2018 9:50 pm 
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Ceeboo wrote:
schreech wrote:
Claiming the white christian male victim card got trump elected




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I love dogs, thanks!

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 Post subject: Re: 1984 in 2018
PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2018 10:25 pm 
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Ceeboo wrote:
schreech wrote:
Claiming the white christian male victim card got trump elected

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This is not such an unbelievable point of view. Here's a simple opinion piece from a conservative author, from a while back. With a few keystrokes you can find many such articles that delve into this with more detail.

http://www.startribune.com/trump-plays- ... 399739291/


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 Post subject: Re: 1984 in 2018
PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2018 10:29 pm 
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schreech wrote:
WTF are you talking about? NOTHING YOU HAVE LINKED TO INDICATES THAT THERE IS AN ISSUE OF FREE SPEECH HERE WHICH IS THE PREMISE OF YOUR ENTIRE ARGUMENT NO MATTER HOW MANY TIME YOU FORGET WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT OR TRY TO MOVE THE GOAL POSTS.

Jesus, stay focused.

He has to move the goalposts. He really doesn't believe in any of the crap he's repeating here.


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 Post subject: Re: 1984 in 2018
PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2018 10:34 pm 
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canpakes wrote:
schreech wrote:
WTF are you talking about? NOTHING YOU HAVE LINKED TO INDICATES THAT THERE IS AN ISSUE OF FREE SPEECH HERE WHICH IS THE PREMISE OF YOUR ENTIRE ARGUMENT NO MATTER HOW MANY TIME YOU FORGET WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT OR TRY TO MOVE THE GOAL POSTS.

Jesus, stay focused.

He has to move the goalposts. He really doesn't believe in any of the crap he's repeating here.



Bingo. I got sucked in by the excitement of mockably stupid arguments. I should have bowed out sooner, the mocking and dismantling was completed many posts ago.

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 Post subject: Re: 1984 in 2018
PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2018 10:38 pm 
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Water Dog wrote:
Your web hosting company isn't the internet. There are thousands of such companies. There is only one Facebook.


Facebook isn't the Internet either. It's a social network company. There is a big Internet outside of Facebook.

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 Post subject: Re: 1984 in 2018
PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2018 10:39 pm 
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We can still get our Alex Jones fix on youtube.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qUEy55r49fY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kgUDbvKYbWk

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 Post subject: Re: 1984 in 2018
PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2018 10:48 pm 
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schreech wrote:
Bingo. I got sucked in by the excitement of mockably stupid arguments. I should have bowed out sooner, the mocking and dismantling was completed many posts ago.

Please, don't apologize. Continue the merciless mocking; these sorts of folks deserve to suffer such mocking when they align themselves with self-interested crackpots and end up pushing their lines of BS in the pursuit of their selfish indifference and devotion to undermining the Nation.

These people would wipe their arse in public with the Constitution if they could make a dollar off of the show.


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 Post subject: Re: 1984 in 2018
PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2018 5:21 am 
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Water Dog wrote:
They are shadow banning conservatives. A few weeks ago they admitted it. I see it EVERY DAY on twitter. Every. Day. The pattern is unmistakable. Friends of mine, personal friends, reasonably well known bloggers, I won't see anything from them unless I visit their page directly. I see mention of something they tweeted in an article online. Huh, interesting I never saw that in my feed. They even block referred traffic from sources they don't like. They'll block a blog for instance, or a referring twitter user. Then when you click on those links going to some referred tweet, they won't appear. You'll get "system is busy try again" messages repeatedly, hitting refresh over and over dozens of times, but then magically after removing the src tag from the URL their servers start working.

http://minx.cc:1080/?post=376296


You sent me to some dude’s blog, which links to Breitbart, which links to Vice. Why not just send me to Vice so I don’t have travel through an underworld of false information that’s destroying minds?

If you actually READ the ENTIRE, original article, it becomes apparent that faulty programming to sift out Russian trolls resulted in this fiasco. Meanwhile, Alex Jones was not being impacted at all. There was a hearing about it. Testimony from experts about the nature of the problem, and it was fixed.

I think that the extent to which conservatives are being “shadow banned” is probably the result of clumsy efforts to manage the deluge of false information that pollutes the cyber landscape. The “conservative” information network is so intertwined with nutbar conspiracist material and trolls that it would be very difficult to get that right. It should be done right. It needs to be done correctly. But I am willing to give tech companies the benefit of the doubt and expect “conservatives” to clean up their act and stop spreading obviously false conspiracy nonsense.

But lo and behold, they have been busy turning this problem into a conspiracy too. Next thing you know there will be a child sex ring thrown into the narrative. Oh, and Hillary Clinton.


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 Post subject: Re: 1984 in 2018
PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2018 5:34 am 
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Kishkumen wrote:
But I am willing to give tech companies the benefit of the doubt and expect “conservatives” to clean up their act and stop spreading obviously false conspiracy nonsense.

You don't really expect that, do you?

Kishkumen wrote:
But lo and behold, they have been busy turning this problem into a conspiracy too. Next thing you know there will be a child sex ring thrown into the narrative. Oh, and Hillary Clinton.

Now this, I expect.

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 Post subject: Re: 1984 in 2018
PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2018 5:49 am 
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Some Schmo wrote:
You don't really expect that, do you?


I’m not holding my breath, certainly. The flagship news organization of modern conservatism, FOX News, gave citizen Trump airtime to talk Birtherism long before we hit this low point. Both sides of the spectrum have their nutbars, but FOX puts them on prominent display.


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 Post subject: Re: 1984 in 2018
PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2018 5:57 am 
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Kishkumen wrote:
Some Schmo wrote:
You don't really expect that, do you?


I’m not holding my breath, certainly. The flagship news organization of modern conservatism, FOX News, gave citizen Trump airtime to talk Birtherism long before we hit this low point. Both sides of the spectrum have their nutbars, but FOX puts them on prominent display.

And this is the real difference between the American right and left. The left is rationally embarrassed by the crazy behavior of their radicals. The right elevates and celebrates theirs.

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 Post subject: Re: 1984 in 2018
PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2018 6:13 am 
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Some Schmo wrote:
And this is the real difference between the American right and left. The left is rationally embarrassed by the crazy behavior of their radicals. The right elevates and celebrates theirs.


It seems so. The “conservative” misinformation matrix is the world most people on the Right live in every day. It’s the air they breathe. They reject the sane voices and privilege the nuts. Now the whole environment is permeated by an information illness. Sane people on the Right generally keep their mouths shut or publicly announce their departure from the GOP. Those hanging in there do so in part out of the (probably correct) belief that if they leave their replacements will be much, much worse. The Nazis we’ve already seen popping up here and there. This is Trumpworld.


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 Post subject: Re: 1984 in 2018
PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2018 6:15 am 
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By the way, here is VICE’s article about the correction of the problem:

https://news.vice.com/en_us/article/vbj7w3/twitter-appears-to-have-fixed-search-problems-that-lowered-visibility-of-gop-lawmakers


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 Post subject: Re: 1984 in 2018
PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2018 6:35 am 
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Kishkumen wrote:
The “conservative” misinformation matrix is the world most people on the Right live in every day. It’s the air they breathe. They reject the sane voices and privilege the nuts.

Rather than me offering you my opinion about your opinions, I think I'll just seek some clarity.
Are you suggesting that "most people on the right" privilege Alex Jones and reject sane voices? Or have I misunderstood?
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The Nazis we’ve already seen popping up here and there.

Can you point me to a few examples of these Nazis popping up here and there?


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 Post subject: Re: 1984 in 2018
PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2018 6:48 am 
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Ceeboo wrote:
Quote:
The Nazis we’ve already seen popping up here and there.

Can you point me to a few examples of these Nazis popping up here and there?


I think I found a couple of these Nazis!

Candace Owens and Charlie Kirk (Two of these Conservative Nazis you speak of perhaps?) were having breakfast in Philadelphia a few days ago. Fortunately for us (and all of America) they were unmasked for their Nazi ways by about 25 of our modern american role models. While they tried to eat, they had eggs and water thrown on them with loud courageous screams of "Get out of here you Nazis/Fascists". I thought the "____ the police" chants were really special too. Yeah - nuts and sane voices.

https://youtu.be/zVScEu6HM7E


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 Post subject: Re: 1984 in 2018
PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2018 6:59 am 
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Ceeboo wrote:
Candace Owens and Charlie Kirk (Two of these Conservative Nazis you speak of perhaps?) were having breakfast in Philadelphia a few days ago. Fortunately for us (and all of America) they were unmasked for their Nazi ways by about 25 of our modern american role models. While they tried to eat, they had eggs and water thrown on them with loud courageous screams of "Get out of here you Nazis/Fascists". I thought the "____ the police" chants were really special too. Yeah - nuts and sane voices.


As some Schmo remarked:

Quote:
The left is rationally embarrassed by the crazy behavior of their radicals.


I have never heard of this person before, and I don't approve of people breaking the law by assaulting people with eggs.

But if there is any truth in what we find here, I hope that there are also some people on the right who find Canda Owens just a teeny bit embarrassing too:

Quote:
She has called for the imprisonment of Hillary and Bill Clinton, former FBI director James Comey, and special counsel Robert Mueller, as well as TV anchors such as Jake Tapper, Rachel Maddow and Anderson Cooper.[5]
Race relations[edit]
Owens is known for her criticism of [Black Lives Matter]].[4][26][27][28] She has described Black Lives Matter protesters as "a bunch of whiny toddlers, pretending to be oppressed for attention."[29] Owens has argued that African Americans have a "victim mentality" and often refers to the Democratic Party as a "plantation".[24][26] She has argued that the American left "like black people to be government-dependent".[30] Owens has argued that black people have been brainwashed to vote for Democrats.[3] She has argued that police violence against black people is not about racism.[26][29] According to The Guardian and the Daily Beast, Owens has referred to police killings of black people as a trivial matter to African Americans.[24][8]
After the 2017 white supremacist rally in Charlottesville, Owens said that concern over rising white nationalism was “stupid.”[5]
Climate change[edit]
Owens rejects the scientific consensus on climate change.[31][5] She has called climate change a lie used to “extract dollars from Americans.”[5]
Me Too Movement[edit]
Owens described the #MeToo Movement - which was an international movement against sexual harassment and assault - as "stupid" and said that she "hated" the movement.[32][33] Owens wrote that the #MeToo Movement was premised on the idea that "women are stupid, weak & inconsequential."[32][33] She is critical of feminism.[34]
Abortion[edit]
She has said that abortion is “extermination” of black babies.[5]
Welfare[edit]
She has advocated for an end to all welfare programs.[5]
Other[edit]
She attended the opening of the United States embassy in Jerusalem.[35] She is critical of the press and open borders policies.[34] She has called for the immediate deportation of all undocumented immigrants.[5]
In May 2018, Owens praised Louis Farrakhan's tweet endorsing Donald Trump with a description of “a really big deal” and “relevant.”[32] Afterward, Owens received criticism from conservative figures for praising Farrakhan - who has a history of anti-semitic remarks - Owens deleted the tweet.[32]
She has described George Soros and “globalists” as among the most urgent threats in the United States.[5] She has said that conservative critics of her are generally “secret socialists.”[5]

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 Post subject: Re: 1984 in 2018
PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2018 7:12 am 
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Chap wrote:

But if there is any truth in what we find here, I hope that there are also some people on the right who find Canda Owens just a teeny bit embarrassing too:


Are you equating the expressed personal opinions (no matter what they are or who they are from) with a violent mob that gathered and attacked two American citizens eating breakfast in America?

I support free speech - Almost 100% (Candace Owens, Alex Jones, Some Schmo and yours included) I do not support the violent attacks of American citizens at coffee shops (In Philadelphia, or Houston, or Columbus, or anywhere in this country.)


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 Post subject: Re: 1984 in 2018
PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2018 7:15 am 
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Quote:
Owens rejects the scientific consensus on climate change. She has called climate change a lie used to “extract dollars from Americans.”

She may not be a Nazi, but she is clearly part of the problem on the right.

by the way, should I be defending the chanters in that video now? Is that my leftist responsibility? I'm still trying to figure out what a leftist is supposed to do, since, ya know, I'm apparently one of them.

Not that calling all people who disagree with the current administration "leftist" is bigotry or anything.

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 Post subject: Re: 1984 in 2018
PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2018 7:28 am 
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I think this is generally less of a "left vs. right" problem and more of a "YouTube often fails at striking a balance between free speech and appeasing revenue streams" problem. It really doesn't take much searching to find plenty of instances of the left complaining of Google/YouTube demonetizing or removing videos of those on the left (unless we assume most LGBT+ content creators are GOP shills). Or their long battle with false DMCA take downs on otherwise very legit videos (a rather well known problem among the video game community) that eventually lead them to have to provide monies to defend content creators in these false take-down cases.

I vehemently disagree with censoring voices, no matter what side the aisle, but I suspect YouTube's decisions are based considerably more around $$$ decisions and not ideological ones. The way to counter this is to show YouTube that their decisions actually hurt revenue, not help it (as was the case with false DMCA take downs) . Until they are shown that I doubt highly you will get them to change their approach to the topic.

As an aside, I found Google's behavior around building a censored search engine for China considerably more troubling than their demonetizing practices on their video sharing platform.

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 Post subject: Re: 1984 in 2018
PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2018 7:29 am 
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Some Schmo wrote:

by the way, should I be defending the chanters in that video now?

You will have to make that decision. But since you had to ask the question, I'm not very confident that you posses the wisdom or vision that is required to reach a responsible and mature choice.


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 Post subject: Re: 1984 in 2018
PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2018 7:56 am 
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Xenophon wrote:
The way to counter this is to show YouTube that their decisions actually hurt revenue, not help it (as was the case with false DMCA take downs) . Until they are shown that I doubt highly you will get them to change their approach to the topic.

I agree with you, but what's funny about this is that while they may lose revenue over this, they also may gain it from other demographics. This is truly a market driven choice.

Twitter has come out saying they haven't banned Alex Jones (they missed out on the opportunity to collude with Apple and Facebook... poor bastards). As a result, where I was ambivalent about Twitter before, I will now never register an account with them, at least, not until they get their act together. I will no longer support platforms where outright lying to the public at large is just fine and dandy. I'm not saying they should be shut down. I'm saying I won't support people who support the dissemination of ____ (which is my essential criticism of Drumpf supporters).

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