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1984 in 2018
http://www.mormondiscussions.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=49646
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Author:  schreech [ Fri Aug 10, 2018 10:55 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 1984 in 2018

Water Dog wrote:
schreech wrote:
...to try to distract from the fact that you think the govt should step in and force a private business to be a "free speech" platform for any crackpot that can create a FREE account. You are wrong and will continue to be wrong.

You need to take a step back and breath some fresh air, because I have said no such thing. I am speaking to the principle of the situation, nothing more. They are perfectly within their rights to censor whatever the hell they want for whatever reasons they want. In doing so, however, they are walking a tightrope. If they are perceived to wield power over public discourse that serves to abrogate free speech, they will (rightfully) find themselves under regulatory crosshairs. Which has already happened to a preliminary probing extent. We are witnessing the beginnings of these conversations, which will grow over time.


The slippery slope fallacy is, well, a fallacy and nonsense in this argument. You said that alex jones constitutionally guaranteed right to free speech was infringed upon by Facebook. Who do you think is going to step in to ensure his free speech is not "censored"? Probing? Lol, yea, not going to happen until consumers are negatively affected, you know, the point of anti-trust laws - to protect consumers. Wishful thinking is all you have at this point...

Author:  subgenius [ Fri Aug 10, 2018 12:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 1984 in 2018

schreech wrote:
Image
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"Why Not"? , obviously it is because they did not - thanks Schreech.
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Author:  SteelHead [ Fri Aug 10, 2018 12:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 1984 in 2018

Just as I do not have the unfettered right to post what ever my heart might desire to this forum, Jones does not have an unfettered right to post whatever he wants at Facebook. No one's rights are being infringed.

Author:  subgenius [ Fri Aug 10, 2018 12:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 1984 in 2018

SteelHead wrote:
Just as I do not have the unfettered right to post what ever my heart might desire to this forum, Jones does not have an unfettered right to post whatever he wants at Facebook. No one's rights are being infringed.

So, censorship of speech can be a good thing? (and spare us the reductio ad absurdum with yelling Fire in a movie theater as speech).

Author:  schreech [ Fri Aug 10, 2018 12:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 1984 in 2018

subgenius wrote:
Image


Keep hammering away you unimaginative, basement dwelling simpleton...I guess imitation is the highest form of flattery but, dude, your infatuation with me is getting a bit eerie.

Author:  canpakes [ Fri Aug 10, 2018 1:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 1984 in 2018

subgenius wrote:
So, censorship of speech can be a good thing? (and spare us the reductio ad absurdum with yelling Fire in a movie theater as speech).

Lol. Don’t understand what ‘censorship’ means, do you?

Author:  SteelHead [ Fri Aug 10, 2018 2:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 1984 in 2018

subgenius wrote:
SteelHead wrote:
Just as I do not have the unfettered right to post what ever my heart might desire to this forum, Jones does not have an unfettered right to post whatever he wants at Facebook. No one's rights are being infringed.

So, censorship of speech can be a good thing? (and spare us the reductio ad absurdum with yelling Fire in a movie theater as speech).


He has a right to speech, he does not have the right to some one else's platform. You have a right to speech, you do not have a right to consume bandwidth and storage on this forum. Jone's rights are not being infringed. There is no right to publish tripe on Facebook. He has his own site, he can publish tripe there to his heart's content.

Author:  DarkHelmet [ Fri Aug 10, 2018 2:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 1984 in 2018

SteelHead wrote:
He has a right to speech, he does not have the right to some one else's platform. You have a right to speech, you do not have a right to consume bandwidth and storage on this forum. Jone's rights are not being infringed. There is no right to publish tripe on Facebook. He has his own site, he can publish tripe there to his heart's content.


Wow. 9 pages into this thread and the Trumptards still don't understand this basic concept. I'm not sure how else it can be explained in a way they will get. Maybe pictures and smaller words.

Author:  honorentheos [ Fri Aug 10, 2018 5:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 1984 in 2018

I forgot there were two threads on this. I posted this in the other thread but seems applicable here as well:
https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/p ... es-705766/

Prior to Trump, if I were asked what I thought the most significant threat to democracy was I would have answered it was money in politics. And that isn't a partisan issue. As you know, the American political system isn't built on the idea we can get saints for Presidents and a choir of angels in congress. Instead, the system is built up acknowledging that if such were possible, we wouldn't need government or checks and balances. But because we're dealing with human beings we have a system that requires pitting interests against each other.

When it comes to the new public square where the venues for expression are also corporations, we have the worst of possible worlds right now. As Taibbi points out, the corporations are uniquely exempted from responsibility for the content they may host which differs from traditional media venues. Facebook or Google financially benefit from eyeballs on ads that are attracted to crazy talk like Jones claiming the Sandy Hook families were paid actors or the US will erupt into civil war on the 4th of July. To them, we as users aren't customers consuming a product they are producing. We're the product they are selling to their actual customers who are the people buying ad space or time. And they fear regulation that would interfere with this, which gives the government leverage. The Taibbi article tells us that this leverage is being used to have voices silenced in the public square. Maybe the ones being silenced are a danger to the public interest, maybe they are a danger to someone else's interest. Who knows?

And that's the issue here. I don't have a problem with regulation of the speech in the new public square to police dangerous behavior any more than I have an issue with physical police keeping the peace. But I do have a problem when this policing is not done with transparency and due process that is accountable to the public is some way to ensure it isn't being abused. There's a reason to believe any process that is based on leverage and quid pro quo (we'll pull the people you want just so long as you don't start regulating us) is ripe for corruption. It doesn't matter which party is in control. Democrats aren't inherently good people. Republicans aren't inherently bad people. They're all people, and promised the Ring of Gyges are more likely to fall prey to corruption than when their behavior is kept out in the light of day.

....

The problem is that it was a quid pro quo to keep the government from regulating them. Capitalism isn't incorruptible. It's the opposite. Corruption that leads to financial benefits is rewarded. Moneyed interests have been able to largely direct our democracy for a reason.

I want transparency and due process. And public accountability.

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