1984 in 2018

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_SteelHead
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Re: 1984 in 2018

Post by _SteelHead »

Just as I do not have the unfettered right to post what ever my heart might desire to this forum, Jones does not have an unfettered right to post whatever he wants at Facebook. No one's rights are being infringed.
It is better to be a warrior in a garden, than a gardener at war.

Some of us, on the other hand, actually prefer a religion that includes some type of correlation with reality.
~Bill Hamblin
_subgenius
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Re: 1984 in 2018

Post by _subgenius »

SteelHead wrote:Just as I do not have the unfettered right to post what ever my heart might desire to this forum, Jones does not have an unfettered right to post whatever he wants at Facebook. No one's rights are being infringed.

So, censorship of speech can be a good thing? (and spare us the reductio ad absurdum with yelling Fire in a movie theater as speech).
Seek freedom and become captive of your desires...seek discipline and find your liberty
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what is chaos to the fly is normal to the spider - morticia addams
If you're not upsetting idiots, you might be an idiot. - Ted Nugent
_schreech
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Re: 1984 in 2018

Post by _schreech »

subgenius wrote:Image


Keep hammering away you unimaginative, basement dwelling simpleton...I guess imitation is the highest form of flattery but, dude, your infatuation with me is getting a bit eerie.
"your reasoning that children should be experimented upon to justify a political agenda..is tantamount to the Nazi justification for experimenting on human beings."-SUBgenius on gay parents
"I've stated over and over again on this forum and fully accept that I'm a bigot..." - ldsfaqs
_canpakes
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Re: 1984 in 2018

Post by _canpakes »

subgenius wrote:So, censorship of speech can be a good thing? (and spare us the reductio ad absurdum with yelling Fire in a movie theater as speech).

Lol. Don’t understand what ‘censorship’ means, do you?
_SteelHead
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Re: 1984 in 2018

Post by _SteelHead »

subgenius wrote:
SteelHead wrote:Just as I do not have the unfettered right to post what ever my heart might desire to this forum, Jones does not have an unfettered right to post whatever he wants at Facebook. No one's rights are being infringed.

So, censorship of speech can be a good thing? (and spare us the reductio ad absurdum with yelling Fire in a movie theater as speech).


He has a right to speech, he does not have the right to some one else's platform. You have a right to speech, you do not have a right to consume bandwidth and storage on this forum. Jone's rights are not being infringed. There is no right to publish tripe on Facebook. He has his own site, he can publish tripe there to his heart's content.
It is better to be a warrior in a garden, than a gardener at war.

Some of us, on the other hand, actually prefer a religion that includes some type of correlation with reality.
~Bill Hamblin
_DarkHelmet
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Re: 1984 in 2018

Post by _DarkHelmet »

SteelHead wrote:He has a right to speech, he does not have the right to some one else's platform. You have a right to speech, you do not have a right to consume bandwidth and storage on this forum. Jone's rights are not being infringed. There is no right to publish tripe on Facebook. He has his own site, he can publish tripe there to his heart's content.


Wow. 9 pages into this thread and the Trumptards still don't understand this basic concept. I'm not sure how else it can be explained in a way they will get. Maybe pictures and smaller words.
"We have taken up arms in defense of our liberty, our property, our wives, and our children; we are determined to preserve them, or die."
- Captain Moroni - 'Address to the Inhabitants of Canada' 1775
_honorentheos
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Re: 1984 in 2018

Post by _honorentheos »

I forgot there were two threads on this. I posted this in the other thread but seems applicable here as well:
https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/p ... es-705766/

Prior to Trump, if I were asked what I thought the most significant threat to democracy was I would have answered it was money in politics. And that isn't a partisan issue. As you know, the American political system isn't built on the idea we can get saints for Presidents and a choir of angels in congress. Instead, the system is built up acknowledging that if such were possible, we wouldn't need government or checks and balances. But because we're dealing with human beings we have a system that requires pitting interests against each other.

When it comes to the new public square where the venues for expression are also corporations, we have the worst of possible worlds right now. As Taibbi points out, the corporations are uniquely exempted from responsibility for the content they may host which differs from traditional media venues. Facebook or Google financially benefit from eyeballs on ads that are attracted to crazy talk like Jones claiming the Sandy Hook families were paid actors or the US will erupt into civil war on the 4th of July. To them, we as users aren't customers consuming a product they are producing. We're the product they are selling to their actual customers who are the people buying ad space or time. And they fear regulation that would interfere with this, which gives the government leverage. The Taibbi article tells us that this leverage is being used to have voices silenced in the public square. Maybe the ones being silenced are a danger to the public interest, maybe they are a danger to someone else's interest. Who knows?

And that's the issue here. I don't have a problem with regulation of the speech in the new public square to police dangerous behavior any more than I have an issue with physical police keeping the peace. But I do have a problem when this policing is not done with transparency and due process that is accountable to the public is some way to ensure it isn't being abused. There's a reason to believe any process that is based on leverage and quid pro quo (we'll pull the people you want just so long as you don't start regulating us) is ripe for corruption. It doesn't matter which party is in control. Democrats aren't inherently good people. Republicans aren't inherently bad people. They're all people, and promised the Ring of Gyges are more likely to fall prey to corruption than when their behavior is kept out in the light of day.

....

The problem is that it was a quid pro quo to keep the government from regulating them. Capitalism isn't incorruptible. It's the opposite. Corruption that leads to financial benefits is rewarded. Moneyed interests have been able to largely direct our democracy for a reason.

I want transparency and due process. And public accountability.
The world is always full of the sound of waves..but who knows the heart of the sea, a hundred feet down? Who knows it's depth?
~ Eiji Yoshikawa
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