Traumatized Immigrant children harming themselves

[_Jersey Girl]

At one time there was excess conquered land taken from the Amerinds. America needed immigrants and they needed America.

How do you figure that America needed immigrants?

[_Chap]

Tell that to the judge.

Perhaps I will when we get judges appointed who are more interested in justice and putting the American people first.

And one way they can and will if required show their interest in justice and putting the American people first will be by making you pay the taxes that the American people voted for when they elected their government.

[_Themis]

I have no complaints about Trump's policy on taxation.

LOL No complaints his tax policy is selling your future and will require massive tax increases to keep the lights on and pay places like China their amount of the interest they own on that debt.

[_Doctor CamNC4Me]

Which President started the detention of illegal immigrant children? Anyone know? The internet seems to be all over the place on this one.

- Doc

[_Ceeboo]

Which President started the detention of illegal immigrant children? Anyone know? The internet seems to be all over the place on this one.

- Doc

This is something that I posted on another thread:


When you have a topic that is as emotional and heart-breaking as this, I think that some perspective is demanded in order to - hopefully - take some of the politically charged vitriol off the table so that some real discussion about potential solutions to this gigantic problem might have a chance to develop.

Anyway, here is an article by Ben Shapiro (Yes, he surely writes from a conservative chair but not a Trump fan for what it's worth) that recalls a very similar onslaught of illegal immigrants in 2014/2015. It's kind of long but I didn't want to post it out of context so here it is in full:

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------



FLASHBACK: The Obama White House Kept Children Together With Parents In 'Widespread Deplorable Conditions' ... And Cited Holding Women And Children As A 'Deterrent'

While the media fulminate over the issue of illegal immigrant parental separation from children — and while they go nearly insane over the implication by certain members of the Trump administration that such policy amounts to an attempt to “deter” illegal immigration — it’s worth remembering that the Obama administration pursued nearly all the same activities as the Trump administration with regard to treatment of an influx of illegal immigration in 2014-2015.

In 2015, for example, The New York Times reported that a federal judge had found that the Obama administration had violated the Flores settlement in keeping families together in custody. According to the Times:


Judge Gee also found that migrant children had been held in “widespread deplorable conditions” in Border Patrol stations after they were first caught, and she said the authorities had “wholly failed” to provide the “safe and sanitary” conditions required for children even in temporary cells.

Furthermore, it turns out that the Obama administration was holding women and children together — and not releasing children — in order to deter further immigration. Yes, you read that right. The same people now complaining about the Trump administration using child/parent separation as a deterrent were entranced with the idea of keeping children and parents together as a deterrent. Jeh Johnson, former Secretary of Homeland Security, said at the time regarding family detention, "The practice has reformed considerably since 2 years ago when we first opened these things up, but I think that we need to continue the practice, so we’re not just engaging in catch-and-release on the border." Johnson, in other words, used the exact same verbiage as the Trump administration to describe keeping children in custody alongside parents — not out of humanitarian concern, but as a deterrent.


Yet Johnson recently ripped parental separation while admitting, "We actually did the opposite of what is going on now by keeping families together. A lot of people objected to holding families in detention facilities. We expanded family detention. That was controversial. Very clearly."

Here’s the Times:

Initially, Homeland Security officials said they were detaining the families to send a message to others in Central America to deter them from coming to the United States illegally. In February, a federal court in Washington, D.C., ruled that strategy unconstitutional. Officials stopped invoking deterrence as a factor in deciding whether to release mothers and children as they seek asylum in the United States.

But many women and children remained stalled behind bleak walls and fences month after month with no end in sight. Mothers became severely depressed or anxious, and their distress echoed in their children, who became worried and sickly.

In fact, the Obama administration’s statements regarding the deterrent effects of keeping children in custody alongside parents led the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals to rule that children had to be released. The court stated:

In January 2015, a group of Central American migrants, who were not represented by Flores class counsel, filed a putative class action, claiming that the government had adopted a no-release policy as to Central American families. ... The court found that ICE had not adopted a blanket no-release policy, but found ample support for the plaintiffs’ alternative contention that “DHS policy directs ICE officers to consider deterrence of mass migration as a factor in their custody determinations, and that this policy has played a significant role in the recent increased detention of Central American mothers and children.” Id. at 174. The court preliminarily enjoined the government from using deterrence as a factor in detaining class members. R.I.L-R v. Johnson, No. 1:15-cv-00011- JEB, Dkt. 32 (D.D.C. Feb. 20, 2015).


In other words, keeping children and parents together was not to be treated as a deterrent, according to the Court. Yet the outrage over the Obama administration holding women and children together for deportation as a stated deterrent drew no ubiquitous comparisons to Nazi Germany or Japanese internment from the mainstream media.

The Obama administration was castigated somewhat mildly for keeping children and parents together; the Trump administration has been ripped a new one for separating them. Here, then, is the point: the only real solution sought by the hard Left is release of all illegal immigrant parents into the interior of the United States.

[_honorentheos]

I thought we talked about this in the first thread or two when this was breaking. The Obama administration was clearly in the wrong in the manner and facility care used when they faced the explosion of central American minors that they detained for indefinite periods of time. But it was also a time when most of the minors coming to the US were legitimately unaccompanied minors. The lawsuits that limited the time a minor could be kept in detention resulted in the widely used reproach of the Obama admin being guilty of "catch and release" because that became the policy afterward. They were moved out of detention into guardianships while awaiting hearings.

The Trump administration faced a new challenge with the increased number of families with very young accompanied minors. The policy change this last spring was to forcibly separate the youth from their parents and THEN declare them to be unaccompanied minors. It was a move to circumvent law and judicial orders that limited the amount of time a minor could be detained that would have affected how long the Trump admin could detain the family unit.

They're not equivilent.

[_ajax18]

How do you figure that America needed immigrants?

Settlers is what allowed the English to gain control of the continent from the French and Spanish. Spain was actually giving away land in Louisiana to French Canadians in a losing effort to become the ultimate owners of Louisiana.

[_subgenius]

Charge the administration and President himself with:

Child abduction
Child endangerment
Child abuse


Be done.

according to documents you would charge Obama as well.
Perhaps it's time to let parents be liable for the danger they put their children in?

[_Chap]

I think many people are more concerned with the question of who in the US government is going to stop family separations than with the question of who might be said to have started them.

And it is the President now in power, and his administration, who have to answer that.

[_subgenius]

I think many people are more concerned with the question of who in the US government is going to stop family separations than with the question of who might be said to have started them.

And it is the President now in power, and his administration, who have to answer that.

huh?
everyday children are separated from their families when said family commits a crime. It is no less "tragic" when single parent Bobby Joe is picked up for selling crank.
Quit chasing symptoms and treat the disease.