What it means to live in a Nation of 320 million

The Off-Topic forum for anything non-LDS related, such as sports or politics. Rated PG through PG-13.
_MeDotOrg
_Emeritus
Posts: 4761
Joined: Sun Jun 17, 2012 11:29 pm

What it means to live in a Nation of 320 million

Post by _MeDotOrg »

I just saw a little YouTube video about Barrow, Alaska. It's the most northern town in the United States. Population 4,500. The Siberian town of Tiksi is the only place in the world larger and further north than Barrow.

In summer the sun never sets for 65 days, and in winter it never rises for 65 days. (Winter is coming probably carries more weight for Game of Thrones viewers in Barrow.). There are no paved roads. There are no roads leading out of town. The only way in or out is by airplane, or by barge if there is no ice in summer. Because virtually everything comes in by air, heavy items are astronomically expensive. A frozen pizza is $17.

But of course, all of this is mitigated by the architectural splendor of the town:

Image

To put it charitably, it's probably a blessing that it's dark for 65 days a year. I would not want to be in charge of Tourism for Barrow. The good news: If you don't like hot weather, the warmest day in the history of Barrow was 79°.

What would it be like to live there? What happens to your circadian rhythm in a place where the sun has a bipolar disorder? Tinfoiled windows in the summer and sunlamps in the winter? As you would imagine, a lot of people self-medicate. Barrow is the Iñupiat cultural center of Northern Alaska. Alcoholism was so rampant that Barrow went 'damp' (Alcohol could be consumed but not sold) back in early 90's. The libertarian whites in town for the Prudhoe Bay money helped tip the election against public health officials and concerned Iñupiats. Alcohol was narrowly re-legalized, and continues to ravage the community. An interview with the mayor exhibits little small town chamber of commerce optimism. Barrow is both sustained and ravaged by oil.

But if Barrow isn't thriving, it isn't going anywhere. The population slowly rises.

Human beings are extraordinary creatures. From the Arctic Circle to the Equator, we adapt to conditions that other species cannot. I'm beginning to wonder if that very adaptability is not a clue as to why we are so difficult to govern. We are an unruly bunch. People are born in Barrow, but some people move there. You don't just wash up in Barrow, there are no roads into town. You have to decide to go there, which means that wherever you were, you wanted to get as far away as possible. Barrow is where you go when you run out of running room. Some people are drawn to the frontier, wherever it may be.

Maybe Barrow is the perfect coda for the American experience: Europeans looking to strike it rich duking it with Native Americans on the edge of the world. There's no moral of the story here. Just looking at the multitude of ways that people experience the world.
"The great problem of any civilization is how to rejuvenate itself without rebarbarization."
- Will Durant
"We've kept more promises than we've even made"
- Donald Trump
"Of what meaning is the world without mind? The question cannot exist."
- Edwin Land
_ajax18
_Emeritus
Posts: 6914
Joined: Wed Oct 25, 2006 2:56 am

Re: What it means to live in a Nation of 320 million

Post by _ajax18 »

The war on drugs has been a failure. It's cheaper to legalize drugs like alcohol. It's just those mean conservative Christians who don't want people to be able to drink what they like.
And when the confederates saw Jackson standing fearless as a stone wall the army of Northern Virginia took courage and drove the federal army off their land.
_subgenius
_Emeritus
Posts: 13326
Joined: Thu Sep 01, 2011 12:50 pm

Re: What it means to live in a Nation of 320 million

Post by _subgenius »

Interesting post Met, thanks - I share your fascination on such topics.
$17 for a frozen pizza? geez, couldn't you just make a pizza at home and set it outside to freeze naturally?
Seek freedom and become captive of your desires...seek discipline and find your liberty
I can tell if a person is judgmental just by looking at them
what is chaos to the fly is normal to the spider - morticia addams
If you're not upsetting idiots, you might be an idiot. - Ted Nugent
_subgenius
_Emeritus
Posts: 13326
Joined: Thu Sep 01, 2011 12:50 pm

Re: What it means to live in a Nation of 320 million

Post by _subgenius »

ajax18 wrote:The war on drugs has been a failure.

not to derail, but the war on drugs has been profitable...extremely profitable.
Seek freedom and become captive of your desires...seek discipline and find your liberty
I can tell if a person is judgmental just by looking at them
what is chaos to the fly is normal to the spider - morticia addams
If you're not upsetting idiots, you might be an idiot. - Ted Nugent
_ajax18
_Emeritus
Posts: 6914
Joined: Wed Oct 25, 2006 2:56 am

Re: What it means to live in a Nation of 320 million

Post by _ajax18 »

not to derail, but the war on drugs has been profitable...extremely profitable.


I sort of see what youi're saying. But I've tried questioning conservative libertarians who think drugs should be legal. My question is always, "Who is going to pay for the welfare for those who like to remain drunk, high, or stoned all day? Who pays for those who permanently incapcitate themselves?"

How would you answer that?
And when the confederates saw Jackson standing fearless as a stone wall the army of Northern Virginia took courage and drove the federal army off their land.
_subgenius
_Emeritus
Posts: 13326
Joined: Thu Sep 01, 2011 12:50 pm

Re: What it means to live in a Nation of 320 million

Post by _subgenius »

ajax18 wrote: My question is always, "Who is going to pay for the welfare for those who like to remain drunk, high, or stoned all day? Who pays for those who permanently incapcitate themselves?"

How would you answer that?

Who will pay? The same people who pay for those people today? (Liberals will undoubtedly say that rich CEOs should pay...not Tom Hanks should pay, just other rich white guys and those who vote Republican).

Are you suggesting that there will be a dramatic increase in "those who permanently incapacitate themselves"? I mean is this not tantamount to a prohibition argument? who pays for all the alcoholics?
My signature line "Seek freedom and become captive of your desires...seek discipline and find your liberty" - can this sort of culture not be created where people are self-actualized and thus find discipline with their desires?

Look at Barrow Alaska from the OP...it has a high school, it has airport, a hospital, taxis, newspaper, festivals, etc. (and note that roads are not paved due to permafrost, not economy)
"Barrow, like many communities in Alaska, has enacted a "damp" law, prohibiting the sale of alcoholic beverages. It allows for import, possession and consumption of such beverages."
Seek freedom and become captive of your desires...seek discipline and find your liberty
I can tell if a person is judgmental just by looking at them
what is chaos to the fly is normal to the spider - morticia addams
If you're not upsetting idiots, you might be an idiot. - Ted Nugent
_MeDotOrg
_Emeritus
Posts: 4761
Joined: Sun Jun 17, 2012 11:29 pm

Re: What it means to live in a Nation of 320 million

Post by _MeDotOrg »

Years ago I remember reading a theory about alcoholism that was...sobering. It is simply that cultures with the lowest rates of alcoholism are cultures that have been fermenting the longest. Mediterranean cultures have lower rates of alcoholism than northern countries.

So what happens when cultures are first introduced to alcohol? Alcoholism, big time. By definition, a culture newly introduced to alcohol would not have developed social conventions for its consumption. There can be a sociological or culture component. In France, parents occasionally give their children a sip of wine or watered-down wine. In Russia, vodka is kept in the freezer, and shots are downed not for the taste, but to get inebriated as quickly as possible.

But I think there is a physiological component as well. I think there may be something brutally Darwinian that occurs. People with a strong predilection towards alcoholism can exist for thousands of years in a culture that does not have alcohol. And that would be true if you were Scandinavian or Eskimo. And both cultures have been ravaged by alcoholism since its introduction.

And the third possible contributing factor: People's circadian rhythms. Humans originated near the Equator. How does living in places with vast changes in the amount of darkness and light contribute to a predilection towards self-medicating with alcohol? Does a person with a Mediterranean heritage have a great predilection towards alcoholism if they live north or the Arctic Circle?
"The great problem of any civilization is how to rejuvenate itself without rebarbarization."
- Will Durant
"We've kept more promises than we've even made"
- Donald Trump
"Of what meaning is the world without mind? The question cannot exist."
- Edwin Land
_ajax18
_Emeritus
Posts: 6914
Joined: Wed Oct 25, 2006 2:56 am

Re: What it means to live in a Nation of 320 million

Post by _ajax18 »

Germans have been drinking beer as long as Italians have drank wine. But I thought Amerinds and orientals lacked an enzyme to oxidize alcohol. I think white flour and refined sugar has been as bad for Native Americans (and Caucasians for that matter) as alcohol.
And when the confederates saw Jackson standing fearless as a stone wall the army of Northern Virginia took courage and drove the federal army off their land.
_canpakes
_Emeritus
Posts: 8541
Joined: Wed Dec 07, 2011 6:54 am

Re: What it means to live in a Nation of 320 million

Post by _canpakes »

ajax18 wrote:It's cheaper to legalize drugs like alcohol.

Are you trying to pick a fight with those drug companies that manufacture and market opioids?


ajax18 wrote:It's just those mean conservative Christians who don't want people to be able to drink what they like.

Plenty of conservative Christians seem to be hooked on those opioids.
_Some Schmo
_Emeritus
Posts: 15602
Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2007 2:59 pm

Re: What it means to live in a Nation of 320 million

Post by _Some Schmo »

When I was younger, I spent some time in a northern Canadian town for work. It was November, dusk was at 2:30 in the afternoon and dawn was somewhere around 8:30.

I had a really hard time with it. I was surprised at how much I relied on a decent amount of daylight.
God belief is for people who don't want to live life on the universe's terms.
Post Reply