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 Post subject: Can Employers fire people for being Gay.
PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 2:51 am 
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https://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-admini ... soc_trk=Facebook

The circus goes on. What next?

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 Post subject: Re: Can Employers fire people for being Gay.
PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 6:40 am 
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It is a reasonable argument to note that LGBT are not "immutable"....but before that distraction, let us note that this gearing up for a Supreme Court run....wonder how that will then be decided?

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 Post subject: Re: Can Employers fire people for being Gay.
PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 7:02 am 
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I hadn't read that the skydiving company had decided to pursue appeal to the Supreme Court after the decision against them. Possibly because the gay man who was fired died in an accident some years ago before this made it through the appeals. But there are other similar ones so it will be interesting to see how this plays out. In some ways this gets to my discussion with EAllusion over public accommodation laws where political party is not explicitly described as a protected class in Title VII of the civil rights act. We forget that gender identity isn't, either, and these cases are usually resolved over argument regarding the inclusion of sex/gender as prohibited cause for discrimination.

Anyway, the courts have been upholding the argument that sex isn't clearly narrowly binary. For example, "The Price Waterhouse plurality, along with two concurring Justices, therefore determined that a female employee who faced an adverse employment decision because she failed to “walk . . . femininely, talk . . . femininely, dress . . . femininely, wear make-up, have her hair styled, [or] wear jewelry,” could properly state a claim for sex discrimination under Title VII—even though she was not discriminated against for being a woman per se, but instead for failing to be womanly enough." So the question of immutability is a distraction.

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 Post subject: Re: Can Employers fire people for being Gay.
PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 2:10 pm 
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The rationale for forbidding discrimination against gays under current statutory authority is that saying you can have sex/relationships with men if you are a woman, but not if you are a man is a form of sex discrimination. The counter argument is that it's not and explicit reference to orientation is needed.

The latter is the more radical view, but Republicans keep winning elections, so that's not neccesarily an impediment to it winning in court


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 Post subject: Re: Can Employers fire people for being Gay.
PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 7:37 pm 
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EAllusion wrote:
The latter is the more radical view, but Republicans keep winning elections, so that's not neccesarily an impediment to it winning in court

I don't know that it's the more radical view. I don't agree with it but it would be hard to argue it is not the most literal interpretation.

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 Post subject: Re: Can Employers fire people for being Gay.
PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 8:34 pm 
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If you are an entrepreneur like Peter Theil, does that mean you can fire yourself? In our Ayn Rand utopia, do we have the libertarian chops to live in a world where people can freely and openly hate not only each other, but themselves?

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 Post subject: Re: Can Employers fire people for being Gay.
PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 8:59 pm 
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honorentheos wrote:
EAllusion wrote:
The latter is the more radical view, but Republicans keep winning elections, so that's not neccesarily an impediment to it winning in court

I don't know that it's the more radical view. I don't agree with it but it would be hard to argue it is not the most literal interpretation.


Saying women are allowed to X but men are not because of gender norms or visa versa is illegitimate sex discrimination unless you can explain a justified purpose to that discrimination. It'd be sex discrimination if you fired women for wearing pants as a violation of a gender norm along the same line of argument. Since the private sexual/relationship preferences of men or women is something that requires neutrality thanks to established court precedent, it follows that is a form of sex discrimination. Women having sex with women is just a violation of a gender norms just like wearing pants is. Price Waterhouse should have this covered.


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 Post subject: Re: Can Employers fire people for being Gay.
PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 9:36 pm 
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EAllusion wrote:
Price Waterhouse should have this covered.

I don't disagree. But again, it's hard to intuitively say that the opposing argument and one we're going to hear isn't the most literal interpretation. It's underlying premise seems radical only because an informed understanding considers the traditional binary gender stereotypes false when compared to the completely analog state of nature. But people still visualize atoms like tiny solar systems, too. One of my coworker's favorite Friday t-shirts is an old school gold Bohr model of a lithium atom if I recall correctly with the word, "SCIENCE" over it on a dark blue Tee. It's jarring to look at. I don't think I'm in the majority on that one, though. I asked him once if it was ironic, and he asked why. I shrugged it off and said never mind, I was just wondering if there was more to it.

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 Post subject: Re: Can Employers fire people for being Gay.
PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 8:05 am 
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At some point it wouldn't surprise me if EAllusion tried to subpoena voting records and fire anyone who voted for DJT because that's racist.

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