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 Post subject: Re: Kavanaugh Selected. What is your opposition?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 1:39 pm 
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I'm not sure how many people read anything over at SCOTUSblog but they do have a write-up of Kavanaugh with bit of background information on both cases he ruled on, how he defended/presented those rulings, and what implications they had on other cases. It is a fairly long read but probably worth a look if you're interested in knowing more about him.

Your reddit list is nice Doc (and thanks for sharing) but I like being able to run down some of the decisions themselves.

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 Post subject: Re: Kavanaugh Selected. What is your opposition?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 1:46 pm 
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Xenophon wrote:
I'm not sure how many people read anything over at SCOTUSblog but they do have a write-up of Kavanaugh with bit of background information on both cases he ruled on, how he defended/presented those rulings, and what implications they had on other cases. It is a fairly long read but probably worth a look if you're interested in knowing more about him.

Your reddit list is nice Doc (and thanks for sharing) but I like being able to run down some of the decisions themselves.

Thank you Xeno (and Doc C).

I really don't see a whole lot to warrant any type of "Er Meh Gerrd!" from my inner Eric Holder mustache. Seems like a pretty reasonable replacement pick as far as not swinging things too far out of balance from how they are now.

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 Post subject: Re: Kavanaugh Selected. What is your opposition?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 1:50 pm 
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Doctor Steuss wrote:

I really don't see a whole lot to warrant any type of "Er Meh Gerrd!" from my inner Eric Holder mustache.




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 Post subject: Re: Kavanaugh Selected. What is your opposition?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 2:20 pm 
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Is Ajax all right with this choice?? Justice Kavanaugh is an establishment guy with Jeb Bush proclaiming he is an excellent choice for the Supreme Court.
https://mobile.twitter.com/JebBush/stat ... gr%5Etweet


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 Post subject: Re: Kavanaugh Selected. What is your opposition?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 2:28 pm 
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Brackite wrote:
Is Ajax all right with this choice?? Justice Kavanaugh is an establishment guy with Jeb Bush proclaiming he is an excellent choice for the Supreme Court.
https://mobile.twitter.com/JebBush/stat ... gr%5Etweet


The establishment still controls congress. This may be what it takes to get him confirmed.

Is illegal immigration even an issue when it comes to the supreme court?


Mark Levine seemed to have some concerns about Kavanaugh. I always respect Mark's opinion. I'm not sure how those of you who think I hate Jews can explain that.

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 Post subject: Re: Kavanaugh Selected. What is your opposition?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 5:41 pm 
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Kevin Graham wrote:
The point being that if Mueller were to pursue indictment then this thing would to to Supreme Court. Going on and on about what the Senate can (but won't) do is irrelevant.

Can you explain under what scenario that "this" would go to Supreme Court? What process are referring to? How are imagining that whatever-THIS-is suddenly appears at Supreme Court?

Kevin Graham wrote:

Who said anything about impeachment?

Well, you brought up Kavanaugh's view on President.
Besides, how do you not understand what impeachment is and what indictment is?

Kevin Graham wrote:

There is plenty credible evidence, ... The evidence is all over the place that he has violated this clause of the Constitution.

No, there is not. Credible evidence would be actionable.
You act as if 12 months ago there was a video broadcast on CNN of Trump shooting a baby along with a copy of his diary entry entitled "I shot a baby today" - but here we are 12 months later...

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 Post subject: Re: Kavanaugh Selected. What is your opposition?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 5:44 pm 
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Water Dog wrote:
Kevin Graham wrote:
Swamp anyone? Trump appoints the one guy who is most likely to get him off the hook if he's indicted and no one on the Right sees a conflict of interest here?

Kavanaugh's position is without controversy and would be affirmed by every justice on the court today. Supreme Court has long upheld that the executive possesses plenary powers which are beyond judicial review. The only remedy for removing a President is Congress and impeachment. Which is a political remedy, not a legal one. Which means it can happen for any reason, just or not. You simply need a political majority to make it happen.

Upon removal from office a President is no longer afforded the plenary power protection, ergo regular citizen prosecution. An impeachment is tantamount to an indictment.

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 Post subject: Re: Kavanaugh Selected. What is your opposition?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 6:05 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: Kavanaugh Selected. What is your opposition?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 7:35 pm 
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subgenius wrote:
Can you explain under what scenario that "this" would go to Supreme Court?


If Mueller decides to subpoena and/or indict Trump, this would most certainly head to the Supreme Court when Trump undoubtedly refuses to be indicted. As EAllusion explained, "Supreme Court may have to answer the question of the legality of criminal indictment of Trump at some point." Yeah, no kidding.

Barbara McQuade, professor at Michigan Law School and a former U.S. Attorney for the Eastern District of Michigan wrote this just prior to Kavanaugh's announcement:

Quote:
If confirmed, Brett Kavanaugh, President Donald Trump’s next appointee to the Supreme Court, will face cases involving many significant legal issues, such as abortion, immigration and voting rights, to name a few. But other legal issues that will come before the new justice go right to the heart of our democracy – cases relating to Trump himself.

As Special Counsel Robert Mueller continues his investigation into Russian interference with the 2016 presidential election, we can anticipate potential legal challenges that may come before the Supreme Court in the near future. For instance, can a sitting president be charged in an indictment? The Department of Justice’s own Office of Legal Counsel has concluded that a sitting president cannot be indicted, and that the only remedy for a president’s crimes is impeachment, but the question has never been put to the Court. Kavanaugh has written that a President should be immune from criminal investigations, and that impeachment should be the sole remedy for misconduct.

Another question likely to come before the Court is the scope of executive privilege. While the Court held in 1974 in United States v. Nixon that the privilege is not absolute and "must yield to the demonstrated, specific need for evidence in a pending criminal trial," that case addressed only a subpoena seeking material items, such as tape recordings. The Court has not yet decided whether a sitting president must honor a grand jury subpoena for his testimony. If Trump refuses to comply with a subpoena for his testimony, the Court may face that question.

And how about whether executive power makes it legally impossible for a president to obstruct justice? Some legal scholars have argued that because the president is the chief executive who oversees the Department of Justice, he is lawfully permitted to initiate or end any investigation, even if he interfered to protect himself. Others contend that impeding an investigation with a corrupt intent is a crime regardless of who commits it. These are just some of the imminent legal questions that involve potentially existential consequences for Trump’s presidency.


Indeed, Trump knows he has the Senate in his back pocket and thus, doesn't need to concern himself with impeachment. But he cannot control Mueller and it clearly weighs on his mind. We're talking about a man with a long documented history of being sued, and a man who has manipulated the system to work for him any way he can. He has used lawyers and his wealth to keep himself out of prison (i.e. defrauding thousands of Americans gets settled with a $25 million payoff right after he promised he wouldn't settle) and now he's rigging the Supreme Court with "loyalists" who will have his back when the time comes.

subgenius wrote:
Well, you brought up Kavanaugh's view on President.


Yes, who said President should be immune from criminal investigations (i.e. indictments). Trump could potentially be indicted and Kavanaugh believes President is immune to that. Why is this so hard for you to understand? We don't need you to keep talking about how the Senate impeaches, and then pretend that is something relevant to anything I'm saying, just so you can claim I'm ignorant about impeachment.

subgenius wrote:
Besides, how do you not understand what impeachment is and what indictment is?


You're the one who keeps talking about impeachment when I've never said that. I referred specifically, three times now, to Trump being indicted by Mueller, which involves a grand jury, not the Senate. The question as to whether the President can be indicted like any other citizen is one that has being debated ever since Trump got elected, and for good reason. This moron and his lawyer have said that he can be neither subpoenaed nor indicted and he declares near absolute authority as the Executive.

subgenius wrote:
No, there is not. Credible evidence would be actionable


Well no kidding it needs to be actionable. But the Senate has no interest in taking action because of who is in office. This doesn't make the evidence not credible just because they refuse to pursue it on political grounds. Actionable means, "giving sufficient reason to take legal action." Well, legal action has been taken, just not by Trump's loyalists in the Senate. The fact that a federal judge declared that the lawsuit was allowed to proceed, pretty much establishes the point that the evidence is actionable.

Remember, Republicans threatened to impeach Obama on a number of dubious claims. From the Taliban prisoner swap to Benghazi, impeaching Obama was always a subject to be entertained by House and Senate Republicans. But Trump clearly profits from his office as President and he has made decisions that clearly make his personal wealth increase as a result, and this is an unambiguous violation of the emoluments clause that doesn't get even a double-take from those same Republicans. Why? Because politics is more important than the Constitution.

subgenius wrote:
You act as if 12 months ago there was a video broadcast on CNN of Trump shooting a baby along with a copy of his diary entry entitled "I shot a baby today" - but here we are 12 months later...


Was that supposed to make any sense? The fact is you have no defense of Trump's violation of the emoluments clause and Republicans haven't even pretended to put up a defense because they know they don't have to. Why? Because unless they're willing to impeach him on those grounds, there is really no reason for them to discuss it. And they're obviously not. But hey, they sure were upset with Obama when Rep. Joe Sestak claimed the White House offered him a job to prevent him from challenging Arlen Specter in a primary.

President Trump Has No Defense Under the Foreign Emoluments Clause - by Joshua Matz, former law clerk to Justice Anthony M. Kennedy of the United States Supreme
Court, and Laurence H. Tribe, Carl M. Loeb University Professor at Harvard Law School


Last edited by Kevin Graham on Tue Jul 10, 2018 11:27 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Kavanaugh Selected. What is your opposition?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 8:07 pm 
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subgenius wrote:
You act as if 12 months ago there was a video broadcast on CNN of Trump shooting a baby along with a copy of his diary entry entitled "I shot a baby today" - but here we are 12 months later...

Would Kavanaugh's judicial viewpoint allow for an exclusion of that diary entry, about shooting the baby, from consideration?

I imagine Kavanaugh was selected because he could be counted for delivering pro-conservative votes and arguments.

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 Post subject: Re: Kavanaugh Selected. What is your opposition?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 8:11 pm 
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moksha wrote:
Would Kavanaugh's judicial viewpoint allow for an exclusion of that diary entry, about shooting the baby, from consideration?


As asinine as his comment was, I'm not sure he'd support impeachment even if Trump did in fact kill a baby. There seems to be absolutely nothing this guy can do to earn his disapproval. Identity politics at work.


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 Post subject: Re: Kavanaugh Selected. What is your opposition?
PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 7:46 am 
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Kevin Graham wrote:
subgenius wrote:
Can you explain under what scenario that "this" would go to Supreme Court?


If Mueller decides to subpoena and/or indict Trump, this would most certainly head to the Supreme Court when Trump undoubtedly refuses to be indicted. As EAllusion explained, "Supreme Court may have to answer the question of the legality of criminal indictment of Trump at some point." Yeah, no kidding.

You repeating the claim is not an actual "explanation".
See, you wrote: "The point being that if Mueller were to pursue indictment then this thing would to to Supreme Court."
and then i asked : "Can you explain under what scenario that "this" would go to Supreme Court?"
then you wrote repeated: "If Mueller decides to subpoena and/or indict Trump"...with the redundancy of "when Trump undoubtedly refuses to be indicted" (because yeah, we all noticed the context)....and quoting EAllusion's "legality of criminal indictment of Trump at some point" also does not suffice, because you have yet to explain "at what point"? you have yet to offer the explanation that merits the belief that "at some point" falls on some realistic line.

Trump's refusal to be indicted does not = automatically go straight to Supreme Court.

So, again - please explain your statement of fear here.

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what is chaos to the fly is normal to the spider - morticia addams
If you're not upsetting idiots, you might be an idiot. - Ted Nugent


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