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 Post subject: Re: Breast is Best>
PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 7:23 am 
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subgenius wrote:
You seem to be in this stance that formula=evil and breastfeeding=good.


Sure. Everybody can see that from my posts. If they read them backwards and jumble the words about a bit. Or if they just use their imagination.

subgenius wrote:
I believe that the mother (or parents or caregivers) should make the choice for themselves...like 2 dads might have to do.


Yup. Me too. Everybody can see that from my posts. Except you, perhaps.

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 Post subject: Re: Breast is Best>
PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 7:26 am 
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Perhaps subgenius missed this post?

viewtopic.php?p=1130440#p1130440

Chap wrote:
FYI, not unexpectedly, the final text of the resolution as passed has apparently not yet been posted on the WHO website. These things are usually circulated post-meeting so people can check for errors and confusions in the text before it is published.

But a draft version, which Ecuador was planning to propose before the US threatened them with sanctions, was circulated at a preparatory meeting in May, and can be seen HERE.

Of interest to the current discussion are the following sections - amongst which the most concerning is the one that says:

Quote:
only two in every three children between 6 months and 2 years of age receive any breast-milk in low- and middle-income countries


We are dealing here with countries where it will often be difficult to prepare baby formula safely and hygienically, where parents may not be able to afford to buy enough high-quality commercial formula to nourish their child adequately, and where babies may be in particular need of the immunoprotective qualities of breast milk. Yet a third of babies get no breast milk at all.

Quote:
The Seventy-first World Health Assembly,

PP1. Taking note the reports on maternal, infant and young child nutrition1: “Comprehensive implementation plan on maternal, infant and young child nutrition: biennial report”, and “Safeguarding against possible conflicts of interest in nutrition programmes”
...
PP4. Reaffirming also that breastfeeding is critical for child survival, nutrition and development, and maternal health;
PP4bis. Affirming that the protection, promotion, and support of breastfeeding contributes substantially to the achievement of sustainable development goals on nutrition and health, and is a core element of
quality health care;
...
PP6. Expressing concern that nearly two in every three infants under 6 months are not exclusively breastfed; that fewer than one in five infants are breastfed for 12 months in high-income countries; and that only two in every three children between 6 months and 2 years of age receive any breast-milk in low- and middle-income countries;
...
URGES MEMBER STATES

(OP1.1) to increase investment in development, implementation and monitoring of laws, policies and programmes aimed at protection, promotion, and support of breastfeeding, including through multi-sectoral approaches, and awareness raising;
(OP1.2) to reinvigorate the Baby-friendly Hospital Initiative (BFHI), including by promoting full integration of the Ten Steps to Successful Breastfeeding in efforts and programmes aimed at improving quality of care for maternal, new-born and child health;
...
(OP1.4) to continue taking all necessary measures in the interest of public health to end the inappropriate promotion of foods for infants and young children, including, in particular implementation of the Guidance on Ending the Inappropriate Promotion of Foods for Infants and Young Children, while taking into account existing legislation and policies, as well as international obligations;



Board members may also like to consult:

Guidance on ending the inappropriate promotion of foods for infants and young children (2016)

This document, amongst other recommendations, says:

Quote:
14. [Advertising] Messages [for baby-milk formula] should not:
• include any image, text or other representation that might suggest use for infants under the age of 6 months (including references to milestones and stages);
• include any image, text or other representation that is likely to undermine or discourage breastfeeding, that makes a comparison to breast-milk, or that suggests that the product is nearly equivalent or superior to breast-milk;
• recommend or promote bottle feeding;
• convey an endorsement or anything that may be construed as an endorsement by a professional or other body, unless this has been specifically approved by relevant national, regional or international regulatory authorities

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 Post subject: Re: Breast is Best>
PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 8:10 am 
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EAllusion wrote:
Every woman I know who breastfed had to pump, because they also work, which was ridiculously inconvenient. I'm not sure any of them would've appreciated someone extolling the virtues of convienance while they had a machine hooked up to their breasts in a car on their lunch break.

At first I thought maybe this is just a bias for Mormon influenced stay at home Mom culture. Then I remembered two women I know talking about latching problems that led to use of nipple shields that led to clamping issues that were so bad they said it was like their nipples were being stabbed with sharp knives every day.

If you talked about their attitude problems, I'm not saying I'd approve of your murder, but I'd understand it.

I think that there is some loading of the word, 'attitude', by any given reader, that will then color how they're interpreting the comment.

To draw an analogy - the question of 'attitude' can be applied to choosing to run for physical fitness. Why would anyone run? It's inconvenient. It's time consuming. You probably have to wear some stupid-looking shoes. The activity is replete with potential problems such as knee pain, shin splints, muscle cramps or related injuries. If you're trying to be consistent with it, you'll probably find yourself running in some places that are unfamiliar or at times and in weather that isn't amenable to it.

So, why bother to run, when there are other options for staying fit? Ask a runner and their reasoning will either end up making sense to you, or might just sound as if it's 'selfish' or faulty. Regardless, it works for the runner, and the runner has adjusted their attitude to deal or cope with the very real issues that accompany the activity. For better or worse, they see more benefit than inconvenience with the whole program and have made the active choice to stick to it.

But, you're probably thinking at this point, "Wait - every woman who has a child has to feed that child... every woman has to run". And you're correct - having a baby, and then not feeding it, is generally considered to be bad form. So, every woman that chooses to have a child also has to 'run'. But here again is a choice that can be made. One can choose between running outside, or purchasing a treadmill. Maybe do both, if that works. But although the two are basically the same in function, the benefits of either are not equal, the potential for problems with either exists, and there will always be certain tangible or intangible benefits of one that cannot be reproduced by the other. Again, attitude and situation affect this.

It's absolutely true that having an infant treat your nipple like an enthusiastic puppy mauling a chew toy is not a happy experience. Nor is finding yourself in an outside or work setting and having to deal with the possibility of other folks glaring at you for daring to breastfeed in public, even with your child discreetly shieded by a cowl or somesuch. But these are inconveniences that are preferred by some, over having to otherwise deal with mixing, carrying, chilling, hauling and cleaning formula bottles. And breastfeeding provides a unique manifestation of the mother-child bond. It's not a bad thing to want to experience that.

There will always be some folks for whom - for some reason or another - breastfeeding doesn't work out. Maybe there are latching issues, or health issues. Maybe the baby is picky and uncooperative. Maybe the whole exercise is just too darn inconvenient, in part because American society still typically reacts to public breastfeeding as it it were some sort of terrible social faux pas and the typical work setting that many mothers exist within doesn't provide for or believe in any support for it. In those situations, formula is a godsend. But if the choice exists, and breastfeeding is a viable option, then I don't see that the practice should be discouraged by an industry that would prefer mothers to pay for their manufactured option rather than explore the mother's own.


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 Post subject: Re: Breast is Best>
PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 8:41 am 
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Canpakes -

Let me see if I follow you here.

You argue that breastfeeding is "ridiculously more convenient." But it isn't necessarily. It's actually quite inconvenient compared to formula for some women. Breastfeeding can be really tough on women. This is pointed out to you. You reply that whether or not it is convenient is dependent on their attitude.

The conventional way to understand that assertion would be that women who find it more inconvenient just have a bad attitude about it. That's what would preserve the value of your initial statement. You receive criticism for saying that. In response, you point out that convenience itself is a state of mind and therefore inherently dependent on your attitude. Ok, but that's just a tautology and it makes the first statement perplexing. Why say it then? It would reduce into "breastfeeding is ridiculously more convenient if you find it convenient, but if not, then not." Well, yeah.

I think you were actually saying breastfeeding is better because it's objectively more convenient. You may have been insulated from the world of pumps, lactation consultants, massive doses of fenugreek, shields, nipple balm, thrush, reconnaissance missions to find places to feed, etc. women sometimes go through. If everything goes well, it certainly can be more convenient.


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 Post subject: Re: Breast is Best>
PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 8:48 am 
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I think in the present that there is such pressure to breastfeed, especially in the the sort of affluent, liberal culture you'd find in place like Madison, WI, that women can be made to feel like failures if they can't hack it for whatever reason. And stuff goes wrong in breastfeeding way more often than soft focus pictures of pretty woman in full makeup breastfeeding next to a sunlit window would have you believe.

I think that culture needs to be pushed back against.


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 Post subject: Re: Breast is Best>
PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 8:52 am 
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Chap -

I think you misreading me. The initial resolution the US used its pressure to kill by making its would-be sponsors back off. It found a new sponsor in the pee-pee tape holders* and will come back in a final form we haven't seen yet as far as I know, but I wasn't disagreeing with that. I'm saying the language of the resolution we have seen seems exaggerated compared to what the science can underwrite, because politics is playing a role in what it says, and it dying isn't that bad thing. I'd rather see more hedged language.

ETA: *Chill out. This is a joke.


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 Post subject: Re: Breast is Best>
PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 9:01 am 
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EAllusion wrote:
Canpakes -

Let me see if I follow you here.

You argue that breastfeeding is "ridiculously more convenient." But it isn't necessarily. It's actually quite inconvenient compared to formula for some women. Breastfeeding can be really tough on women. This is pointed out to you. You reply that whether or not it is convenient is dependent on their attitude.

The conventional way to understand that assertion would be that women who find it more inconvenient just have a bad attitude about it. That's what would preserve the value of your initial statement. You receive criticism for saying that. In response, you point out that convenience itself is a state of mind and therefore inherently dependent on your attitude. Ok, but that's just a tautology and it makes the first statement perplexing. Why say it then? It would reduce into "breastfeeding is ridiculously more convenient if you find it convenient, but if not, then not." Well, yeah.

I think you were actually saying breastfeeding is better because it's objectively more convenient. You may have been insulated from the world of pumps, lactation consultants, massive doses of fenugreek, shields, nipple balm, thrush, reconnaissance missions to find places to feed, etc. women sometimes go through. If everything goes well, it certainly can be more convenient.

Absolutely, we can run with this. I did not intend for the statement to mean that it is ridiculously more convenient for every mother at every time. For us, any inconvenience was seen as being acceptable and worth the choice. We are also a working couple with some flexibility in our schedules, and that flexibility helped. Still, in situations where it could have seemed subjectively more convenient to whip out a stashed bottle of formula, breastfeeding was still the choice. So for our own case, there is an effect from attitude, towards dealing with the issues that breastfeeding brings along with it.

Don’t interpret my failure to flesh that sentence out better as an indictment of women who opt for formula. It isn’t. I speak to that in the post above. My sister-in-law could not breastfeed without a struggle for several reasons - none of them related to her work or home situation - and there was certainly no judgment rendered by anyone that we personally knew because of her eventual complete reliance on formula. Such misplaced judgment would have been presumptuous and cruel.


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 Post subject: Re: Breast is Best>
PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 9:17 am 
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I just want to put a few things "out there". I'm on 4 hours of sleep--don't ask.

It's been about 10 years since I've prepared a bottles of either infant formula or breastmilk, and prepared them en masse for an infant nursery ;-), so something might be different but I don't think so...I did help feed a preemie not so long ago so I don't think anything has changed.

(I have no brain cells left, bear with me)

Preparing a bottle of infant formula takes about 2 seconds. So long as there is a clean water source, there is no need to sterilize anything. It takes oh, I dunno, maybe 10 minutes to hand wash a dozen bottles or you can run them through the dishwasher. A dishwasher is the name of the game in an infant nursery.

There's no need to chill anything--so long as you're using powdered formula, it's as easy as throwing powdered flavoring into your adult water bottle or whipping up a glass of pedialyte for a child. In fact, preparing a bottle of breastmilk can take longer depending on how you're giving it a little warm up.

Let's not forget women who choose to exclusively formula feed, breastfeed, exclusively pump, supplement, use donor milk, and women whose plans were thwarted due to unforeseen circumstances.

Let's exercise support and compassion for all of them. Everyone has a story. Our stories are not theirs.

(If none of this made sense, I refer you to sentence #2)

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 Post subject: Re: Breast is Best>
PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 9:56 am 
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EAllusion wrote:

I think you were actually saying breastfeeding is better because it's objectively more convenient. You may have been insulated from the world of pumps, lactation consultants, massive doses of fenugreek, shields, nipple balm, thrush, reconnaissance missions to find places to feed, etc. women sometimes go through. If everything goes well, it certainly can be more convenient.


The fenugreek...we used to take brewer's yeast. Instead of today's nipple balm we used straight up lanolin and did some old fashioned "prep" (good times, but it worked) before baby was born so there wasn't much need for lanolin--which if I recall correctly, needed to be washed off prior to feeding vs vitamin E that did not. (I might have that backwards, it's been a while) And now, there's also Mother's Milk Tea which sounds like a good idea.

Let's not forget mother's who struggle with mental illness.

This society can manufacture any number of reasons to make a mother feel less than valued. It's really some kind of blasphemy to do it to each other. But it happens. We live in a competitive society.

Some days it sucks, particularly when we think we're losing the "race".

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 Post subject: Re: Breast is Best>
PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 10:16 am 
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EAllusion wrote:
Every woman I know who breastfed had to pump, because they also work, which was ridiculously inconvenient. I'm not sure any of them would've appreciated someone extolling the virtues of convienance while they had a machine hooked up to their breasts in a car on their lunch break.


There's also SAHM's that exclusively pump and bottle feed because of the freedom it gives them.

Quote:
At first I thought maybe this is just a bias for Mormon influenced stay at home Mom culture. Then I remembered two women I know talking about latching problems that led to use of nipple shields that led to clamping issues that were so bad they said it was like their nipples were being stabbed with sharp knives every day.


Knives'll do it. Let's talk about biting. The little terrorists. :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Breast is Best>
PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 10:22 am 
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canpakes wrote:
Don’t interpret my failure to flesh that sentence out better as an indictment of women who opt for formula. It isn’t.

Are you referring to this part?
Quote:
Still, in situations where it could have seemed subjectively more convenient to whip out a stashed bottle of formula, breastfeeding was still the choice.

I don't think you realize how offensive this statement can come across.

Quote:
My sister-in-law could not breastfeed without a struggle for several reasons - none of them related to her work or home situation - and there was certainly no judgment rendered by anyone that we personally knew because of her eventual complete reliance on formula. Such misplaced judgment would have been presumptuous and cruel.

Yes. Are you sure the people who didn't know her situation didn't mention to her that she should try not subjective inconvenience as an excuse to whip out that stashed bottle? :lol: :lol:

Not giving you a hard time, canpakes, I'm just trying to make the point that a woman's controllable attitude is irrelevant when a woman can't breastfeed, and continuing to argue that attitude can fix issues opens the door to women being shamed for not doing it. I gather attitude helped your situation, that's great, but I still would argue that the good attitude was correlated with your ability to breastfeed, not causal to it.


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 Post subject: Re: Breast is Best>
PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 11:12 am 
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Lemmie wrote:
Not giving you a hard time, canpakes, I'm just trying to make the point that a woman's controllable attitude is irrelevant when a woman can't breastfeed, and continuing to argue that attitude can fix issues opens the door to women being shamed for not doing it. I gather attitude helped your situation, that's great, but I still would argue that the good attitude was correlated with your ability to breastfeed, not causal to it.

Lemmie, we are actually in complete agreement on this one. I am arguing that attitude and situation are factors when a woman has a choice. I am absolutely not arguing that in the situation of mothers without that choice that simply putting on a happy face or adopting a different attitude will change that. It won’t. And it would be horrible for anyone to assume as much.

That’s why I entered the conversation in the first place. It seems like many formula manufacturers market their product in a manner that aims for women who have the choice to either breastfeed or use formula, with the intent to influence the decision in favor of formula due to convenience. The position that I’m taking is in relation to that concept of convenience, and the idea that attitudes about what convenience means - and the perceived benefit of it relative to other factors - contribute to the decision.


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 Post subject: Re: Breast is Best>
PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 11:17 am 
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Jersey Girl wrote:
Preparing a bottle of infant formula takes about 2 seconds. So long as there is a clean water source, there is no need to sterilize anything. It takes oh, I dunno, maybe 10 minutes to hand wash a dozen bottles or you can run them through the dishwasher. A dishwasher is the name of the game in an infant nursery.

IIRC, the country that was initially sponsoring the resolution was Ecuador. For poorer nations such as this, reliable and clean water sources are not always guaranteed.


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 Post subject: Re: Breast is Best>
PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 11:49 am 
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canpakes wrote:
IIRC, the country that was initially sponsoring the resolution was Ecuador. For poorer nations such as this, reliable and clean water sources are not always guaranteed.

I don’t know about water concerns, but there is a definite risk surrounding the actual formulas – in particular in countries that might lack (or have lapses in) some oversight.

It was only a decade ago that about 53,000 babies were hospitalized (and several died) as a result of the Sanlu baby formula scandal -- estimates are that about 300,000 were made sick from the formula. There was another instance in China where some people were arrested for making fake formula and slapping name-brand labels on it (like Similac), and yet another where a company had to recall formula after a watchdog group found high mercury levels.

Earlier this year France had a salmonella scare with forumula that ended up with 26 infants hospitalized (they had a similar problem with the same company in 2005 where more than 140 babies were hospitalized).

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 Post subject: Re: Breast is Best>
PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 12:52 pm 
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canpakes wrote:
Lemmie wrote:
Not giving you a hard time, canpakes, I'm just trying to make the point that a woman's controllable attitude is irrelevant when a woman can't breastfeed, and continuing to argue that attitude can fix issues opens the door to women being shamed for not doing it. I gather attitude helped your situation, that's great, but I still would argue that the good attitude was correlated with your ability to breastfeed, not causal to it.

Lemmie, we are actually in complete agreement on this one....
Thanks, I appreciate your comments.
Quote:
That’s why I entered the conversation in the first place. It seems like many formula manufacturers market their product in a manner that aims for women who have the choice to either breastfeed or use formula, with the intent to influence the decision in favor of formula due to convenience...

I don't think convenience is the issue that caused the dispute over the resolution. Re: just formula marketing in general, world-wide, no matter how much people may disagree with other people's choices made on the basis of convenience, I don't see how preventing marketers from emphasizing convenience can be legislated. People have a right to make this choice based on their criteria, which may contain convenience. I personally feel that right can potentially be overridden in a limited way if it offers a best solution to issues related to children, but that doesn't seem to be the case here.

The notes chap posted emphasized mis-information as the influence:
Quote:
14. [Advertising] Messages [for baby-milk formula] should not:
• include any image, text or other representation that might suggest use for infants under the age of 6 months (including references to milestones and stages);
• include any image, text or other representation that is likely to undermine or discourage breastfeeding, that makes a comparison to breast-milk, or that suggests that the product is nearly equivalent or superior to breast-milk;
• recommend or promote bottle feeding;
• convey an endorsement or anything that may be construed as an endorsement by a professional or other body, unless this has been specifically approved by relevant national, regional or international regulatory authorities


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 Post subject: Re: Breast is Best>
PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 1:20 pm 
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Lemmie wrote:
I don't think convenience is the issue that caused the dispute over the resolution. Re: just formula marketing in general, world-wide, no matter how much people may disagree with other people's choices made on the basis of convenience, I don't see how preventing marketers from emphasizing convenience can be legislated. People have a right to make this choice based on their criteria, which may contain convenience. I personally feel that right can potentially be overridden in a limited ways if it offers a best solution to issues related to children, but that doesn't seem to be the case here.

Agreed. Adding here, too, that my earlier comment was interpreted more in the vein of First World experiences versus Third World Realities, likely because I worded this clumsily:

Quote:
Also, breastfeeding is ridiculously more convenient. No hauling around or cleaning separate bottles. No purchase required of same. Mom is always prepared for the baby’s needs.

This is a huge asset for folks in less-developed nations. Breastfeeding also contributes to less water use and wastewater generation (by not washing and sterilizing formula bottles) and less chance of infecting the baby from improperly cleaned bottles and nipples.

I’d bet that more than a few folks in the States don’t always consider that mothers tending children in Third World nations won’t always have the infrastructure and resources to deal with what we take for granted every day, or what we regard as simple and convenient. If a mother is hauling in her daily supply of water by jug and on foot over a few miles, it might not be the best use of that water to clean out formula bottles when the breastfeeding option is available. This is the sort of ‘convenience’ that I’m referring to.


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 Post subject: Re: Breast is Best>
PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 1:40 pm 
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canpakes wrote:
...If a mother is hauling in her daily supply of water by jug and on foot over a few miles, it might not be the best use of that water to clean out formula bottles when the breastfeeding option is available. This is the sort of ‘convenience’ that I’m referring to.

are you suggesting that these water-toting mothers are receiving the marketing campaign materials? ...Enfamil ad-campaign via billboards along the water-toting trail?
exactly how do you "imagine" these mothers are being exposed to this seemingly unscrupulous advert campaign that the WHO protects them from?

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 Post subject: Re: Breast is Best>
PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 2:57 pm 
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subgenius wrote:
canpakes wrote:
...If a mother is hauling in her daily supply of water by jug and on foot over a few miles, it might not be the best use of that water to clean out formula bottles when the breastfeeding option is available. This is the sort of ‘convenience’ that I’m referring to.

are you suggesting that these water-toting mothers are receiving the marketing campaign materials? ...Enfamil ad-campaign via billboards along the water-toting trail?
exactly how do you "imagine" these mothers are being exposed to this seemingly unscrupulous advert campaign that the WHO protects them from?

It’s not really possible to extract your conclusion from my text, but if you’re going to ask if such a thing could happen, you might do some research, first. Here’s a start:

http://www.businessinsider.com/nestles- ... -formula-7


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 3:56 pm 
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Thanks for the link.

Quote:
Meanwhile in the Third World, women tried to save money by diluting the formula.
Formulas had to be mixed with water, but Third World mothers didn't understand that overdilluting it—especially with contaminated water—could "prevent a child from absorbing the nutrients in food and lead to malnutrition," said War on Want.

A New York Times' article on the scandal said one Jamaican family's income "averaged only $7 a week," leading the mother to dilute the water with as much as three times the recommended amount of water so she could feed two children.

Millions of babies died from malnutrition.

"The results can be seen in the clinics and hospitals, the slums and graveyards of the Third World," said War on Want. "Children whose bodies have wasted away until all that is left is a big head on top of the shriveled body of an old man."

In the Times, United States Agency for International Development official, Dr. Stephen Joseph, blamed reliance on baby formula for a million infant deaths every year through malnutrition and diarrheal diseases.

It also hindered infant growth in general, said War on Want. Citing "complex links emerging between breast feeding and emotional and physical development," the group said breastfed children walked "significantly better than bottle-fed" kids, and were more emotionally advanced.


Anyone surprised?

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 Post subject: Re: Breast is Best>
PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 6:04 pm 
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Chap wrote:
DoubtingThomas wrote:
Yes breastfeeding is better, but it doesn't mean scientists won't create a better powdered or artificial milk in the future.


That is perfectly possible.

But as has already been pointed out by more than one poster, even the creation of a perfect breast-milk-equivalent formula does not render it desirable that the producers should undertake intensive marketing designed to make mothers in poor countries switch to formula from breast milk - simply because preparing and feeding formula without risk to infant health demands hygienic conditions that many poor mothers in poor countries will simply not be able to meet. Breast milk will always be safer in that regard.

In addition, there are two risks in persuading poor women that feeding formula is superior to breast milk, and that failure to do so shows deficient parenting:

1. If they purchase a good (and hence expensive) brand, the cost of it will impact the family budget in ways that damage the health of themselves and other family members - or the baby itself, if they cannot afford enough formula to feed the required amount.

2. If they purchase a cheap brand on the principle that 'formula is better', then even if they do feed hygienically and in the specified quantity the baby may be malnourished.


Interesting.


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 Post subject: Re: Breast is Best>
PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 7:03 am 
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canpakes wrote:
subgenius wrote:
are you suggesting that these water-toting mothers are receiving the marketing campaign materials? ...Enfamil ad-campaign via billboards along the water-toting trail?
exactly how do you "imagine" these mothers are being exposed to this seemingly unscrupulous advert campaign that the WHO protects them from?

It’s not really possible to extract your conclusion from my text, but if you’re going to ask if such a thing could happen, you might do some research, first. Here’s a start:

http://www.businessinsider.com/nestles- ... -formula-7

Um, none of these articles addressed the notion that a "mother is hauling in her daily supply of water by jug and on foot over a few miles" is being victimized by an advert campaign that would otherwise be thwarted by the WHO resolution - in fact, one article suggests that a lack of knowledge about formula is a problem (but the bias conclusion of using contaminated water in formula=bad while ignoring that breastfeeding mother drinking same contaminated water=good?...geez)...so, "do research" is great advice, but perhaps you should also heed it..

...and just so i am clear, the science behind baby formula, is that good science or bad science?

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