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 Post subject: Re: Fear Of The Left.......
PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 3:32 pm 
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Why the link to the Chinese massacre? To show that hate is a many splendored thing in America. Ethnic groups hating groups in a complex history that's all but forgotten. So much for our national mythology of "home of the free and the brave". Home to all of the worst of humanity at one time or another and with latter day mythicists busy to wrap it up in romance and nostalgia.

Did I think it was funny? Uh...no...and dark humor is fine with me.

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 Post subject: Re: Fear Of The Left.......
PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 4:46 pm 
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Last edited by Ceeboo on Fri Jul 20, 2018 12:03 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Fear Of The Left.......
PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 5:29 pm 
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Maksutov wrote:
Why the link to the Chinese massacre? To show that hate is a many splendored thing in America. Ethnic groups hating groups in a complex history that's all but forgotten. So much for our national mythology of "home of the free and the brave". Home to all of the worst of humanity at one time or another and with latter day mythicists busy to wrap it up in romance and nostalgia.

Did I think it was funny? Uh...no...and dark humor is fine with me.


I mean, I guess showing Mexicans murdering Chinese men somehow relates to a black woman beating a Mexican grandfather with a brick and it's somehow a white person's fault? You didn't provide any context so it's a waaaaaaaay outta left field move. Here. Let me leave you with this:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Destruc ... gol_Empire

And lest Chap ____ out some diamonds here's a link to a picture of George Michael:

https://therecoup.com/?attachment_id=5313

- Doc


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 Post subject: Re: Fear Of The Left.......
PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 6:04 pm 
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Just saw this: Federal Prosecutor Put on Leave after vile Social Media attack on Maxine Waters.

"Being a loud mouthed c#New Testament in the ghetto you'd think someone would have shot this b#tch by now."


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 Post subject: Re: Fear Of The Left.......
PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 6:43 pm 
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Last edited by Ceeboo on Fri Jul 20, 2018 12:03 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Fear Of The Left.......
PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 6:53 pm 
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Ceeboo wrote:
Questions for all - Answer if you want to.

Do you believe you are fortunate to be an American?
Do you believe America is a racist country?
Do you believe America oppresses Latinos? Blacks? Women? Homosexuals? Jews?
If you could, would you fundamentally transform America?
Do you believe America is better than other democracies around the world? (If so, in what ways?)

Anything else you would like to add?


Hi Ceeboo. I see myself as left of center but do not sympathize with the extreme left, marxist etc. I believe I am fortunate to be an American. Our country has both accomplishments based upon our principals and individual strengths we have hope with our ideals.

I do not think the country as a thing is racist but racism has had a large and ugly role in our past. I am glad we have moved away from some of that but do not believe that that past is done and gone.

The phrase fundamentally change America is disturbingly ambiguous. If it meant ridding America of remaining racism, increasing opportunity for all seriously decreasing crime and imprisonment then yes. On the other hand I believe in private property rights, individual responsibility,private enterprise, competition, relatively wide free choice, very wide free speech and respect for individuals. These basic American values need to be preserved.


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 Post subject: Re: Fear Of The Left.......
PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 6:58 pm 
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Last edited by Ceeboo on Fri Jul 20, 2018 12:03 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Fear Of The Left.......
PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 7:40 pm 
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Ceeboo wrote:
Questions for all - Answer if you want to.

Do you believe you are fortunate to be an American?
Do you believe America is a racist country?
Do you believe America oppresses Latinos? Blacks? Women? Homosexuals? Jews?
If you could, would you fundamentally transform America?
Do you believe America is better than other democracies around the world? (If so, in what ways?)

Anything else you would like to add?



Oh look, Ceeboo posts another litany of questions that will undoubtedly result in the following:

1. A 20+ page thread that is excruciating to get through
2. People not named Ceeboo answering his questions faithfully
3. People complaining that Ceeboo isn't even interacting with the subject he started nor addressing anyone's points.
4. Ceeboo denying that this is true, claiming he has responded extensively to everyone.
5. Everyone not named Ceeboo shaking their heads.
6. Ceeboo reeling off a slew of dumb memes.


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 Post subject: Re: Fear Of The Left.......
PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 8:05 pm 
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Do you believe you are fortunate to be an American?

Yes as are all Americans.

Do you believe America is a racist country?

Countries aren't racist, people are. The undeniable fact is there are racists in the United States.

Do you believe America oppresses Latinos? Blacks? Women? Homosexuals? Jews?

Yes.

If you could, would you fundamentally transform America?

Yes, I think social democracy is something to strive for.

Do you believe America is better than other democracies around the world? (If so, in what ways?)

No. The thing most Americans say sets them apart from the rest of the world is "freedom." But other countries have just as much, if not more freedom. The people who make this claim are typically those who have never been outside the USA.

In Social Democracies, the super rich don't make our decisions for us. If we were a social democracy we wouldn't need to spend $1 trillion per year on defense, which is basically insurance for the wealthiest elite who have more to lose in the event of a foreign invasion. In a social democracy, public sentiment prevails over lobbyist demands. In a social democracy, our jobs wouldn't beheld hostage in tax havens for the rich. In a social democracy we wouldn't be idolizing individuals who make it big in Capitalism.

Steve Jobs is viewed as the one guy who created Apple and the IPhone, but the reality is explained by Mariana Mazzucato: “Everything you can do with an iPhone was government-funded. From the Internet that allows you to surf the Web, to GPS that lets you use Google Maps, to touchscreen display and even the SIRI voice activated system — all of these things were funded by Uncle Sam through the Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency (DARPA), NASA, the Navy, and even the CIA.”

Incidentally, I recommend watching the movie the Pirates of Silicon Valley. Available online here: https://vimeo.com/89729316

You'd be surprised to know what Steve and Bill did to get where they're at today. The scams and thefts that were involved.


Last edited by Kevin Graham on Tue Jul 10, 2018 8:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Fear Of The Left.......
PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 8:09 pm 
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Last edited by Ceeboo on Fri Jul 20, 2018 12:04 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Fear Of The Left.......
PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 8:21 pm 
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Ceeboo wrote:
Kevin Graham wrote:
Just saw this: Federal Prosecutor Put on Leave after vile Social Media attack on Maxine Waters.

"Being a loud mouthed c#New Testament in the ghetto you'd think someone would have shot this b#tch by now."


"Just saw this?"

Where do you hang out, in the sewer at a toxic waste plant?


Newark.

Same thing.

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 Post subject: Re: Fear Of The Left.......
PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 9:07 pm 
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It is true that never-Trump Republicans are massively dispropriately represented both in cable news punditry and in the editorial pages of major newspapers. Part of the reason for this is simply that the intellectual Republican class tends to really dislike Trump and that group was disproportionately represented in those posts prior to Trump wresting the Republican nomination in a highly split primary. That they didn't immediately all lose their jobs when Trump won isn't a bad thing. But part of it is also those organizations actively hiring never-Trump Republicans as a sort of attempt at striking a balanced pose.

What's crazy to me is the take that this proves the liberal bias of the media. First, you have to understand that many of those same organizations also deliberately hire and/or put on the air pro-Trumpers, even when those pro-Trumpers do nothing but lie constantly, to argue along side the never-Trumpers. They're meant to represent poles in a debate. Second, the idea that hiring a bunch of Republican/conservatives represents liberal bias seems ridiculous on its face unless that was used to represent the far end of the conservative spectrum, which it isn't. Hiring a bunch of Republicans or conservatives shows a bias towards Republicans or conservatives, obviously. Third, because never-Trumpers take up space that could be given to actual non-Republicans, this crowds out liberal voices. By %, there are more socialist Americans than there are never-Trump ones, yet you see virtually no socialists in the punditry class, either on TV news or in the editorial pages of publications like the New York Times. The true American left, which is much larger than the never-Trump right, is virtually locked out of mainstream press. This is actually a pretty stark bias against the left in terms of representation. The net result is you can see political shows and editorial pages simply dominated by a spectrum of conservatives that ends up significantly over-representing them.


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 Post subject: Re: Fear Of The Left.......
PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 9:17 pm 
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On the other end of things, there are more overt Nazi supporters running for Congress as Republican nominees right now than there are overt never-Trumpers. That's not hyperbole. That's true. Yet, you don't see overt Naziism in represented much in the punditry and guests. You do get in in barely veiled form, like when Rep. Steve King is invited to Sunday talk shows, but it still has to have some fig leaves covering it to get through. This is probably a good thing, but it's a tell that editorial decisions about what the press considers the acceptable bounds of debate is controlling who gets space rather than mere popular representation.


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 Post subject: Re: Fear Of The Left.......
PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 9:21 pm 
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Xenophon wrote:
Chap wrote:
No, honestly, it's just that I am obviously missing something here. There must be some reason why a bunch of innocent Chinese people getting hanged by a mob is funny in the context in which Maksutov referred to it.

I'd really like you to explain. Or maybe someone else will help me out if you won't.
I read Doc's "lol" as being directed at Mak's link generally not at the particular contents of the link. Mainly that the reference was a bit out of left field in the context of discussing current events. Minds may disagree as to the relevance but I think Doc was tickled by what he viewed a non-sequitur.


That seemed pretty clear to me when I read it. He thought the link was a non-sequitur.


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 Post subject: Re: Fear Of The Left.......
PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 9:23 pm 
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ceebs wrote:
Questions for all - Answer if you want to.


Do you believe you are fortunate to be an American?
Yes.

Do you believe America is a racist country?
Could we change this to, "Do I believe racism is a problem in America?" If so, then yes. Otherwise, I'm not sure it makes sense to say a nation is racist. Maybe Hungary...;)

Do you believe America oppresses Latinos? Blacks? Women? Homosexuals? Jews?
Could we change this to asking, "Do I believe Latinos, Blacks, Women, Jews and LBGT persons are disadvantaged in the US compared to White Heterosexual Males?" If so, then yes. The statistics on this are irrefutable, actually.

If you could, would you fundamentally transform America?
Fundamental is a strong word. I believe in pluralism and our form of representative democracy, which I consider the most fundamental aspects of our system of government. But if I could roll back the partisanship, put measures in place that took money out of politics to the extent possible, reintroduced civics in secondary education, and added critical thinking to secondary education curriculums I think those would influence things for the better.

Actually, as I think about it further perhaps reorienting our priorities as a nation would be fundamental. In which case if I could code an algorithm that changed the world, I'd do it such that we deprioritized consumerism as the metric for social status; and prioritized curiosity, a love of learning and imagination as the main metrics for education. Perhaps it would also make virtues of self-knowledge and discovery, the seeking and pursuit of one's duty as a member of multiple rings of community...I don't know. Or maybe we just have a national Bacchanalia that was accepted by all religions. Like that movie The Purge, perhaps, but not for killing people. Just a big, drunken national orgy that everyone understood was a mulligan their God was giving them for one day every year. That might lead to some change
. :wink:

Do you believe America is better than other democracies around the world? (If so, in what ways?)
No, not as the MVP of democracies for 2017-18. We seem to be leading in some categories like being the biggest economy and owning more guns than everyone else. We also use fewer vacation days and have shorter average life spans than other competitors in our Democracy Olympics. We have the biggest military and also the most people in jail. Don't know if that's worth bragging about but I guess we are taking home the gold in those two categories. Canada is bigger, geographically. So I guess we get, what, silver? Switzerland has parts of the country that have been true democracies dating back to medieval times so we can't claim to be the oldest in a true sense, but in the Constitutional category we lock that shizzle down. Switzerland is actually a pretty nice place to live. They have the added advantage of fewer school shootings while having a GDP per capita above ours. So, they might be the overall winner. I don't know. But no, we're not #1.

ceebs wrote:
Anything else you would like to add?

I hated pep assemblies in high school. It seems so silly to get together and shout about being number 1 every year for four years before every sporting event regardless of how good we actually were in that sport. Don't know what made me want to put that out there, but there you go.

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 Post subject: Re: Fear Of The Left.......
PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 9:29 pm 
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Ceeboo wrote:
Questions for all - Answer if you want to.

Do you believe you are fortunate to be an American?
Do you believe America is a racist country?
Do you believe America oppresses Latinos? Blacks? Women? Homosexuals? Jews?
If you could, would you fundamentally transform America?
Do you believe America is better than other democracies around the world? (If so, in what ways?)

Anything else you would like to add?


Yep.
Sometimes.
Sometimes.
Depends.
Some of them.
I'll let you know. :cool:

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You have made this ludicrous assertion about Israelite religion in the New World. Produce one shred of non-faith based evidence to prove it. --Philip Jenkins


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 Post subject: Re: Fear Of The Left.......
PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 9:33 pm 
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The US's per capita income is in the middle of the pack compared to comparable Western democracies. It's behind places like Ireland, Norway, and Switzerland, about on par with places like Germany and the Netherlands, and somewhat ahead of places like the UK and Japan.

Wealth inequality is particularly high in the US, so other measures of income and standard of living averages tend to be worse. Our health outcomes are abysmal for a wealthy nation.

The US is not remarkably advanced in economic success compared to the various flavors of liberal democracies with capitalist economies out there. It's only such an economic powerhouse because it's got a large population thanks to its land size and historical immigration patterns. China is overtaking the US in overall economic might because it's got about a billion more people, but the US vastly outperforms it on a per capita basis. There's more to what makes an economy run well than the size of a nation.

There's very little the US is the best or in the upper echelon of at this point. Free speech rights, maybe. University system, definitely. What we typically think of as America a beacon of it's currently falling apart in. It may not even be appropriate to call it a true liberal democracy at this point. It's sad. You can still be patriotic while not being delusional about its place in the world.


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 Post subject: Re: Fear Of The Left.......
PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 9:36 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: Fear Of The Left.......
PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 10:55 pm 
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I believe informative is the word you're looking for, ceebs.

:wink:

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~ Eiji Yoshikawa


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 Post subject: Re: Fear Of The Left.......
PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 9:49 am 
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 Post subject: Re: Fear Of The Left.......
PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 1:17 pm 
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Here's update on the permanent resident Mexican who was savaged by a black woman, because of white people or Trump or something:

https://www.yahoo.com/news/suspect-arre ... 35820.html

Quote:
The reported incident occurred on July 4, and a witness told The Washington Post they saw a black woman push the man, Rodolfo Rodriguez, to the ground and hit him. She reportedly yelled at the man, “Go back to your country.”

...

The woman then recruited a group of men to join the beating by telling them that Rodriguez was trying to steal her daughter, who was with her during the attack, Rodriguez said.

A GoFundMe campaign started by Rodiguez’s family to pay for his medical expenses had raised $248,307 — far exceeding the $15,000 goal — as of Wednesday morning.


One will note most of the donations on the GoFundMe page are by Caucasians who're clearly at fault for perpetuating an environment in which black women feel entitled to brain Mexican nonagenarians with bricks.

- Doc


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