It is currently Sat Sep 22, 2018 11:38 pm

All times are UTC - 7 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 573 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22 ... 28  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: Fear Of The Left.......
PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 5:27 pm 
God
User avatar

Joined: Sat Feb 13, 2010 7:58 pm
Posts: 7296
.


Last edited by Ceeboo on Fri Jul 20, 2018 12:11 am, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Fear Of The Left.......
PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 6:10 pm 
God
User avatar

Joined: Sat Feb 13, 2010 7:58 pm
Posts: 7296
.


Last edited by Ceeboo on Fri Jul 20, 2018 12:11 am, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Fear Of The Left.......
PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 7:07 pm 
God
User avatar

Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2007 8:59 am
Posts: 12989
Ceeboo and Doc share a fantasy. Cute.

_________________
"You get to have your own beliefs, and your own wishes, and dreams, and imaginations. What you don't get to have is your own reality." - Sethbag

"Good thing your safe space isn't being violated with the horrors of self-awareness." - Dmetri Cromwell (some guy on Facebook)


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Fear Of The Left.......
PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 8:11 pm 
God
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 01, 2011 6:50 am
Posts: 10446
Location: Your mother's purse
EAllusion wrote:
Why do you impute the actions of Donald Trump, Steven Miller, and other figures who have played a prominent role in stoking racial resentment onto all of white people? Seems really racist of you, which I suppose answers my question.

That resentment was stoked well before Trump, and with a purpose..and it wasn't an RNC bellows. For 8 years the race card wasn't played, but rather the race deck was played. The DNC was at a crossroads with race in America and true to DNC platform they lacked the will, desire, and ability to go down any other path than the well trodden "politics as usual".

_________________
Seek freedom and become captive of your desires...seek discipline and find your liberty
I can tell if a person is judgmental just by looking at them
what is chaos to the fly is normal to the spider - morticia addams
If you're not upsetting idiots, you might be an idiot. - Ted Nugent


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Fear Of The Left.......
PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 10:18 pm 
God
User avatar

Joined: Wed Dec 07, 2011 12:54 am
Posts: 5341
Quote:
I have known for quite some time that my Conservative values were different than my fellow Americans on the hard left. But I don't think it has ever been as crystal clear to me as this thread has made it.

Ceeboo,

Can you give some examples of what these differences are?

Can any of these differences be illustrated via the behaviors of any particular users of this board?

It seems like there has been lots of vague talk about leftists and such, and the dangers that they supposedly pose to America, but very little in the way of defining just what constitutes a leftist and just what they're doing that is so unique.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Fear Of The Left.......
PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 10:27 pm 
Seedy Academician
User avatar

Joined: Sat Dec 13, 2008 4:00 pm
Posts: 18978
Location: The Brutus Memorial Rectory at Cassius University
Ceeboo wrote:
As I have thought about some of the recent posts in the thread - An article that I read a while ago came to mind. It was in the Washington Times.

It is so freaking spot on it's scary!

(Bold is mine)


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Dave Rubin, lapsed progressive, explains why he left the left:

Internet talk show host Dave Rubin says he no longer identifies as a progressive after becoming disillusioned with the left’s increasing disregard for concepts such as freedom of speech, religious liberty and judging people on the content of their character rather than the color of their skin.

In an episode of Prager University released on Monday, Mr. Rubin says so-called progressives are actually rather regressive.

“Banning speakers whose opinions you don’t agree with from college campuses — that’s not progressive,” Mr. Rubin says in the four-minute video. “Prohibiting any words not approved of as ‘politically correct’ — that’s not progressive. Putting ‘trigger warnings’ on books, movies, music, anything that might offend people — that’s not progressive, either.”

“All of this has led me to believe that much of the left is no longer progressive, but regressive,” he continues.

The host of the eponymous “Rubin Report,” a popular talk show on YouTube, Mr. Rubin says progressives have become obsessed with identity politics and measuring which group has been most victimized by straight, white males.

“If you’re black, or female, or Muslim, or Hispanic or a member of any other minority group, you’re judged differently than the most evil of all things: a white, Christian male,” he says. “The regressive left ranks minority groups in a pecking order to compete in a kind of ‘Oppression Olympics.’ Gold medal goes to the most offended.”

But none of these things leads to a flourishing and free society, Mr. Rubin says. In fact, they’re the perfect “recipe for authoritarianism.”

“I’m a married gay man, so you might think that I appreciate the government forcing a Christian baker or photographer or florist to act against their religion in order to cater, photograph or decorate my wedding. But you’d be wrong,” he says. “A government that can force Christians to violate their conscience can force me to violate mine. If a baker won’t bake you a cake, find another baker; don’t demand that the state tell him what to do with his private business.”

Mr. Rubin says he now describes his political views as “classically liberal.”

“For these reasons, I can no longer call myself a progressive,” he says. “I don’t really call myself a Democrat, either. I’m a classical liberal. A free thinker. And, as much as I don’t like to admit it, defending my liberal values has suddenly become a conservative position.”


Guess what! I’m not a Democrat either. Nor do I identify as a Progressive. I do not like a baker discriminating against a gay couple, but I don’t know that I believe the baker should be required to make that cake. He is welcome to his extremism, even if I think it is odd. As a point of law, that case was probably decided correctly.

Like Rubin, I am deeply concerned by illiberalism among some Progressives. I think it is healthy for universities to have a broad ideological range of instruction, so long as the talks are intellectually rigorous and/or of educational value. And I do not say this as a dodge to exclude conservatives. Send me the brightest conservative minds to speak and teach. Send me the brightest liberal minds to speak and teach.

I do not believe in boycotting or disrespecting conservative intellectuals and leaders on campus. I want an open discussion and thoughtful exchanges, not fruitless spectacles to shut down others’ ideas.

But I take issue with the way this fellow’s story, as he frames it, is put to use, or exploited, really. It is a story of conversion from a mirage of phony, monolithic identity to something purportedly better. What Rubin has done is to become disgusted with disturbing elements in Progressive politics and concluded, incorrectly, that he has found the essence of said politics and therefore decided to turn in his imaginary membership card.

Uh, OK. His life, his experience. Now he is a classical liberal. Well, cool. I wonder what that means to him when his idea of Progressivism was so skewed. The use of Rubin’s story as a catalyst for conversion or reconversion is silly. It has as much value as Amway testimonials. And I would hope that we could look past the social marketing ploy to realize that Rubin has told us very little of value. He saw the light. Good for him. His light. It may or may not be yours.

Here’s the thing, I can share some of Rubin’s concerns without jumping to Rubin’s conclusions. I don’t feel to sing the song of praise to Rubin’s unstated ideas about classical liberalism that borders on conservatism. It would be one thing if this were not transparently being used to affirm conservative identity through a caricature of liberal identity. Unfortunately it is exactly that and little more.

Most of all, Rubin’s story has absolutely zero to do with Trumpism, which has nothing to do with classical liberalism. I hope no one here would confuse these things.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Fear Of The Left.......
PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 10:35 pm 
Seedy Academician
User avatar

Joined: Sat Dec 13, 2008 4:00 pm
Posts: 18978
Location: The Brutus Memorial Rectory at Cassius University
Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:
This is really rich. The hate-mongerers on this thread are now bewildered and playing the victim. It's a page right out of DCP's playbook. The Leftists on this thread peddle lies about an entire swath of people, hate our country, and can't wrap their poisoned minds around individual agency and the ability to rise above one's circumstances through choice, discipline, and hope.

They're peddlers of fear, hate, intolerance, and misery. Just look at them. Look at what they post. Do you want to be like that? Be like them? No ____ ing thanks. I'll cast aside their bigotry, prejudice, and intolerance for hope, egalitarianism, and merit. They can keep their misery, the misery born of failed socialist and communist governments that have been relegated to the dustbin of history.


This is really confusing stuff, Doc. Hate our country? Who here hates our country? Can’t wrap our minds around the ability to succeed through effort? Really? Who are these folks? Where are they? Egalitarianism? How are you using this word? Who here is miserable because of the failure of Soviet-style communism?

I am really puzzled by this torrent of confusing verbiage. Any help would be appreciated.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Fear Of The Left.......
PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 10:38 pm 
Seedy Academician
User avatar

Joined: Sat Dec 13, 2008 4:00 pm
Posts: 18978
Location: The Brutus Memorial Rectory at Cassius University
Ceeboo wrote:
I believe in building bridges...........I still try to IRL - in almost every case............But when it comes to American politics, I don't think I believe in building bridges anymore. This is a first for me.

If I am really honest with myself, this all boils down to values. The political left in America and the political right in America have a completely different set of values - And the divide that these values create has widened so much at this point that it's very likely unbridgeable.

I have known for quite some time that my Conservative values were different than my fellow Americans on the hard left. But I don't think it has ever been as crystal clear to me as this thread has made it.


I don’t buy this, Ceeboo. People in America probably have a lot more in common than all the propagandists want us to believe. By spending our time focusing on the differences, we place too much emphasis on them. I am not saying that differences are unimportant, but should exaggerated emphasis on differences alienate us from each other?


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Fear Of The Left.......
PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 10:42 pm 
God
User avatar

Joined: Wed Dec 07, 2011 12:54 am
Posts: 5341
Quote:
Like Rubin, I am deeply concerned by illiberalism among some Progressives. I think it is healthy for universities to have a broad ideological range of instruction, so long as the talks are intellectually rigorous and/or of educational value. And I do not say this as a dodge to exclude conservatives. Send me the brightest conservative minds to speak and teach. Send me the brightest liberal minds to speak and teach.



If this is the same Rubin that was highlighted in the Spirit Paradise thread linked below, then he doesn't appear to be a very deep or thorough thinker, at least not in the featured clip.

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=49312

But, perhaps he has better examples out there...


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Fear Of The Left.......
PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2018 5:20 am 
God
User avatar

Joined: Sat Feb 13, 2010 7:58 pm
Posts: 7296
.


Last edited by Ceeboo on Fri Jul 20, 2018 12:12 am, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Fear Of The Left.......
PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2018 5:43 am 
God
User avatar

Joined: Sat Feb 13, 2010 7:58 pm
Posts: 7296
.


Last edited by Ceeboo on Fri Jul 20, 2018 12:12 am, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Fear Of The Left.......
PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2018 6:07 am 
God
User avatar

Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2007 8:59 am
Posts: 12989
Kishkumen wrote:
This is really confusing stuff, Doc. Hate our country? Who here hates our country? Can’t wrap our minds around the ability to succeed through effort? Really? Who are these folks? Where are they? Egalitarianism? How are you using this word? Who here is miserable because of the failure of Soviet-style communism?

I am really puzzled by this torrent of confusing verbiage. Any help would be appreciated.

There are two basic explanations for doc:

- He's a moron who believes the nonsense he writes
- He's a troll

So, you know, either way, there's only so much attention he deserves. I wouldn't try to divine any real insight from what he writes. Blood from a stone, and all that.

_________________
"You get to have your own beliefs, and your own wishes, and dreams, and imaginations. What you don't get to have is your own reality." - Sethbag

"Good thing your safe space isn't being violated with the horrors of self-awareness." - Dmetri Cromwell (some guy on Facebook)


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Fear Of The Left.......
PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2018 6:09 am 
God
User avatar

Joined: Wed Dec 07, 2011 12:54 am
Posts: 5341
Ceeboo wrote:
CP,

This is now page 19 of the thread - If you have read the thread and If you believe what you suggest here then there is absolutely nothing I am going to be able to do to help you - Unfortunately! Perhaps you should schedule an eye exam?

Let’s approach this another way.

What were the values represented by candidate Trump that earned your vote, as opposed to candidate Clinton?


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Fear Of The Left.......
PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2018 6:38 am 
Seedy Academician
User avatar

Joined: Sat Dec 13, 2008 4:00 pm
Posts: 18978
Location: The Brutus Memorial Rectory at Cassius University
Hey, Ceeboo:

Thank you for the further information. I am very sorry to hear that your political choices have caused a breach between you and some family members. I think a lot of us have been shocked by the events unfolding, and the anxiety caused tends to set people at odds in a more serious way. The other night I was worked up about politics, and my father erupted telling me that this was tearing us apart. I was baffled. Without intending to do so, he revealed where he actually stood, and how much it meant to him. He was not taking kindly to my criticisms of his preferred politician, and the exchange went very poorly indeed. I think we recovered from it, but I do feel there is a distance there that was not present before.

I suppose I get what you mean by building bridges. My first regret is that bridge building is necessary. Somehow our political discussion has gotten out of hand to the point where people act like members of two tribes instead of Americans with some differing opinions. For me it confirms why I am not a joiner and do not belong to a party or religion. I lament the fact that people have become Rs or Ds first and Americans second. This has led to all kinds of bad things.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Fear Of The Left.......
PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2018 6:51 am 
God
User avatar

Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2007 8:59 am
Posts: 12989
How does one build a bridge with someone who lives in a fantasy world? It's a bridge to nowhere. It's like building a bridge off a coastal cliff.

People can only come together if there are ground rules about what reality is. When ____ is a person's worldview, there's no point in trying to communicate with them. It's like trying to play chess with someone in football gear.

A good portion of this country has been inculcated by right wing media BS. They are essentially reality amputees. If a person thinks Drumpf is great, they are clearly out of touch. There are willing to call a ____ salad ambrosia.

_________________
"You get to have your own beliefs, and your own wishes, and dreams, and imaginations. What you don't get to have is your own reality." - Sethbag

"Good thing your safe space isn't being violated with the horrors of self-awareness." - Dmetri Cromwell (some guy on Facebook)


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Fear Of The Left.......
PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2018 6:53 am 
God
User avatar

Joined: Sat Feb 13, 2010 7:58 pm
Posts: 7296
.


Last edited by Ceeboo on Fri Jul 20, 2018 12:12 am, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Fear Of The Left.......
PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2018 6:56 am 
God
User avatar

Joined: Sat Feb 13, 2010 7:58 pm
Posts: 7296
.


Last edited by Ceeboo on Fri Jul 20, 2018 12:13 am, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Fear Of The Left.......
PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2018 7:02 am 
God
User avatar

Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2007 8:59 am
Posts: 12989
Ceeboo wrote:
The timing of your bigotry and intolerance is breath-taking!

Got the vapors, do you?

I might be hurt by this if I weren't so entertained by the irony and your lack of self-awareness.

_________________
"You get to have your own beliefs, and your own wishes, and dreams, and imaginations. What you don't get to have is your own reality." - Sethbag

"Good thing your safe space isn't being violated with the horrors of self-awareness." - Dmetri Cromwell (some guy on Facebook)


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Fear Of The Left.......
PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2018 7:06 am 
God
User avatar

Joined: Sat Feb 13, 2010 7:58 pm
Posts: 7296
/


Last edited by Ceeboo on Fri Jul 20, 2018 12:13 am, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Fear Of The Left.......
PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2018 7:15 am 
Seedy Academician
User avatar

Joined: Sat Dec 13, 2008 4:00 pm
Posts: 18978
Location: The Brutus Memorial Rectory at Cassius University
canpakes wrote:
If this is the same Rubin that was highlighted in the Spirit Paradise thread linked below, then he doesn't appear to be a very deep or thorough thinker, at least not in the featured clip.

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=49312

But, perhaps he has better examples out there...


Yes, Rubin seems to be pretty excited by some of the libertarian ideas that make the rounds, and I think that some of them are attractive in theory, but the idea that competition can replace regulation, while interesting, just does not work out. Adam Smith understood capitalism would work in regulated markets, not some kind of free-for-all. And it really is just the case that greed induces us to make bad choices. Ambition is good to a point, but we can quickly be pulled into neglecting good choices and making bad ones because we feel we need more.

Ponzi schemes are a fine example of how things can spin out of control. An investor may borrow from his clients in an emergency situation and then find himself returning to the trough repeatedly. Competition will eventually stop the schemer, but only after very many people have been hurt. Laws and regulations are inconvenient, but they really are necessary.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Fear Of The Left.......
PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2018 7:25 am 
God
User avatar

Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2007 8:59 am
Posts: 12989
Kishkumen wrote:
Yes, Rubin seems to be pretty excited by some of the libertarian ideas that make the rounds, and I think that some of them are attractive in theory, but the idea that competition can replace regulation, while interesting, just does not work out.

I watched a brief clip of Rubin talking about this with Joe Rogan. It was pretty funny to watch Rogan tell him, dude, without regulation, building construction quality would go to ____.

"Regulations" is one of those scare words on the right which they seem to equate with squashing freedom. They don't seem to understand how much of it is consumer protection. When I go to the gas station, for instance, I can feel good that the amount of gas it says I'm buying actually ends up in my tank, because there are regulations surrounding the accuracy of gas pumps.

I've run small businesses, so I know what people are complaining about with respect to regulations, but again, this isn't a bad thing just because. Some regulations are good, some aren't.

_________________
"You get to have your own beliefs, and your own wishes, and dreams, and imaginations. What you don't get to have is your own reality." - Sethbag

"Good thing your safe space isn't being violated with the horrors of self-awareness." - Dmetri Cromwell (some guy on Facebook)


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 573 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22 ... 28  Next

All times are UTC - 7 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Gunnar, huckelberry and 20 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Jump to:  
Revival Theme By Brandon Designs By B.Design-Studio © 2007-2008 Brandon
Revival Theme Based off SubLite By Echo © 2007-2008 Echo
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group