Fear of the Left . . .

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_Some Schmo
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Re: Fear Of The Left.......

Post by _Some Schmo »

Ceeboo and Doc share a fantasy. Cute.
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_subgenius
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Re: Fear Of The Left.......

Post by _subgenius »

EAllusion wrote:Why do you impute the actions of Donald Trump, Steven Miller, and other figures who have played a prominent role in stoking racial resentment onto all of white people? Seems really racist of you, which I suppose answers my question.

That resentment was stoked well before Trump, and with a purpose..and it wasn't an RNC bellows. For 8 years the race card wasn't played, but rather the race deck was played. The DNC was at a crossroads with race in America and true to DNC platform they lacked the will, desire, and ability to go down any other path than the well trodden "politics as usual".
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_canpakes
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Re: Fear Of The Left.......

Post by _canpakes »

I have known for quite some time that my Conservative values were different than my fellow Americans on the hard left. But I don't think it has ever been as crystal clear to me as this thread has made it.

Ceeboo,

Can you give some examples of what these differences are?

Can any of these differences be illustrated via the behaviors of any particular users of this board?

It seems like there has been lots of vague talk about leftists and such, and the dangers that they supposedly pose to America, but very little in the way of defining just what constitutes a leftist and just what they're doing that is so unique.
_Kishkumen
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Re: Fear Of The Left.......

Post by _Kishkumen »

Ceeboo wrote:As I have thought about some of the recent posts in the thread - An article that I read a while ago came to mind. It was in the Washington Times.

It is so freaking spot on it's scary!

(Bold is mine)


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Dave Rubin, lapsed progressive, explains why he left the left:

Internet talk show host Dave Rubin says he no longer identifies as a progressive after becoming disillusioned with the left’s increasing disregard for concepts such as freedom of speech, religious liberty and judging people on the content of their character rather than the color of their skin.

In an episode of Prager University released on Monday, Mr. Rubin says so-called progressives are actually rather regressive.

“Banning speakers whose opinions you don’t agree with from college campuses — that’s not progressive,” Mr. Rubin says in the four-minute video. “Prohibiting any words not approved of as ‘politically correct’ — that’s not progressive. Putting ‘trigger warnings’ on books, movies, music, anything that might offend people — that’s not progressive, either.”

“All of this has led me to believe that much of the left is no longer progressive, but regressive,” he continues.

The host of the eponymous “Rubin Report,” a popular talk show on YouTube, Mr. Rubin says progressives have become obsessed with identity politics and measuring which group has been most victimized by straight, white males.

“If you’re black, or female, or Muslim, or Hispanic or a member of any other minority group, you’re judged differently than the most evil of all things: a white, Christian male,” he says. “The regressive left ranks minority groups in a pecking order to compete in a kind of ‘Oppression Olympics.’ Gold medal goes to the most offended.”

But none of these things leads to a flourishing and free society, Mr. Rubin says. In fact, they’re the perfect “recipe for authoritarianism.”

“I’m a married gay man, so you might think that I appreciate the government forcing a Christian baker or photographer or florist to act against their religion in order to cater, photograph or decorate my wedding. But you’d be wrong,” he says. “A government that can force Christians to violate their conscience can force me to violate mine. If a baker won’t bake you a cake, find another baker; don’t demand that the state tell him what to do with his private business.”

Mr. Rubin says he now describes his political views as “classically liberal.”

“For these reasons, I can no longer call myself a progressive,” he says. “I don’t really call myself a Democrat, either. I’m a classical liberal. A free thinker. And, as much as I don’t like to admit it, defending my liberal values has suddenly become a conservative position.”


Guess what! I’m not a Democrat either. Nor do I identify as a Progressive. I do not like a baker discriminating against a gay couple, but I don’t know that I believe the baker should be required to make that cake. He is welcome to his extremism, even if I think it is odd. As a point of law, that case was probably decided correctly.

Like Rubin, I am deeply concerned by illiberalism among some Progressives. I think it is healthy for universities to have a broad ideological range of instruction, so long as the talks are intellectually rigorous and/or of educational value. And I do not say this as a dodge to exclude conservatives. Send me the brightest conservative minds to speak and teach. Send me the brightest liberal minds to speak and teach.

I do not believe in boycotting or disrespecting conservative intellectuals and leaders on campus. I want an open discussion and thoughtful exchanges, not fruitless spectacles to shut down others’ ideas.

But I take issue with the way this fellow’s story, as he frames it, is put to use, or exploited, really. It is a story of conversion from a mirage of phony, monolithic identity to something purportedly better. What Rubin has done is to become disgusted with disturbing elements in Progressive politics and concluded, incorrectly, that he has found the essence of said politics and therefore decided to turn in his imaginary membership card.

Uh, OK. His life, his experience. Now he is a classical liberal. Well, cool. I wonder what that means to him when his idea of Progressivism was so skewed. The use of Rubin’s story as a catalyst for conversion or reconversion is silly. It has as much value as Amway testimonials. And I would hope that we could look past the social marketing ploy to realize that Rubin has told us very little of value. He saw the light. Good for him. His light. It may or may not be yours.

Here’s the thing, I can share some of Rubin’s concerns without jumping to Rubin’s conclusions. I don’t feel to sing the song of praise to Rubin’s unstated ideas about classical liberalism that borders on conservatism. It would be one thing if this were not transparently being used to affirm conservative identity through a caricature of liberal identity. Unfortunately it is exactly that and little more.

Most of all, Rubin’s story has absolutely zero to do with Trumpism, which has nothing to do with classical liberalism. I hope no one here would confuse these things.
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_Kishkumen
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Re: Fear Of The Left.......

Post by _Kishkumen »

Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:This is really rich. The hate-mongerers on this thread are now bewildered and playing the victim. It's a page right out of DCP's playbook. The Leftists on this thread peddle lies about an entire swath of people, hate our country, and can't wrap their poisoned minds around individual agency and the ability to rise above one's circumstances through choice, discipline, and hope.

They're peddlers of fear, hate, intolerance, and misery. Just look at them. Look at what they post. Do you want to be like that? Be like them? No “F” ing thanks. I'll cast aside their bigotry, prejudice, and intolerance for hope, egalitarianism, and merit. They can keep their misery, the misery born of failed socialist and communist governments that have been relegated to the dustbin of history.


This is really confusing stuff, Doc. Hate our country? Who here hates our country? Can’t wrap our minds around the ability to succeed through effort? Really? Who are these folks? Where are they? Egalitarianism? How are you using this word? Who here is miserable because of the failure of Soviet-style communism?

I am really puzzled by this torrent of confusing verbiage. Any help would be appreciated.
"Petition wasn’t meant to start a witch hunt as I’ve said 6000 times." ~ Hanna Seariac, LDS apologist
_Kishkumen
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Re: Fear Of The Left.......

Post by _Kishkumen »

Ceeboo wrote:I believe in building bridges...........I still try to in real life - in almost every case............But when it comes to American politics, I don't think I believe in building bridges anymore. This is a first for me.

If I am really honest with myself, this all boils down to values. The political left in America and the political right in America have a completely different set of values - And the divide that these values create has widened so much at this point that it's very likely unbridgeable.

I have known for quite some time that my Conservative values were different than my fellow Americans on the hard left. But I don't think it has ever been as crystal clear to me as this thread has made it.


I don’t buy this, Ceeboo. People in America probably have a lot more in common than all the propagandists want us to believe. By spending our time focusing on the differences, we place too much emphasis on them. I am not saying that differences are unimportant, but should exaggerated emphasis on differences alienate us from each other?
"Petition wasn’t meant to start a witch hunt as I’ve said 6000 times." ~ Hanna Seariac, LDS apologist
_canpakes
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Re: Fear Of The Left.......

Post by _canpakes »

Like Rubin, I am deeply concerned by illiberalism among some Progressives. I think it is healthy for universities to have a broad ideological range of instruction, so long as the talks are intellectually rigorous and/or of educational value. And I do not say this as a dodge to exclude conservatives. Send me the brightest conservative minds to speak and teach. Send me the brightest liberal minds to speak and teach.



If this is the same Rubin that was highlighted in the Spirit Paradise thread linked below, then he doesn't appear to be a very deep or thorough thinker, at least not in the featured clip.

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=49312

But, perhaps he has better examples out there...
_Ceeboo
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Re: Fear Of The Left.......

Post by _Ceeboo »

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_Ceeboo
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Re: Fear Of The Left.......

Post by _Ceeboo »

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_Some Schmo
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Re: Fear Of The Left.......

Post by _Some Schmo »

Kishkumen wrote:This is really confusing stuff, Doc. Hate our country? Who here hates our country? Can’t wrap our minds around the ability to succeed through effort? Really? Who are these folks? Where are they? Egalitarianism? How are you using this word? Who here is miserable because of the failure of Soviet-style communism?

I am really puzzled by this torrent of confusing verbiage. Any help would be appreciated.

There are two basic explanations for doc:

- He's a moron who believes the nonsense he writes
- He's a troll

So, you know, either way, there's only so much attention he deserves. I wouldn't try to divine any real insight from what he writes. Blood from a stone, and all that.
God belief is for people who don't want to live life on the universe's terms.
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