It is currently Mon Jul 16, 2018 5:56 pm

All times are UTC - 7 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 47 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Who picks your food in the USA?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2018 12:52 am 
God

Joined: Sat Nov 18, 2006 3:22 pm
Posts: 1425
http://www.latimes.com/projects/la-fi-f ... migration/

In Australia most of the work is done by backpackers from Asia and Europe. They are required by law to pay the basic wage which is $18.93 an hour, or $719.20 a week. They love doing this as it gives them a working holiday and they often spend a lot of the money locally. There are some employers caught not making the correct payment.

_________________
Israeli Archaeologist Israel Finkelstein " For if there were no patriarchs no Exodus,no conquest of Canaan -and no prosperous united monarchy under David & Solomon- can we say that early biblical Israel as described in the Five Books of Mosesand the books of JoshuaJudgesand Samuel ever existed at all?" The Bible Unearthed p.124.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Who picks your food in the USA?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2018 7:26 am 
God
User avatar

Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2007 8:59 am
Posts: 12575
Quote:
Who picks your food in the USA?

Depends on who does the shopping, I guess. If I'm shopping, I'm picking what I want.

_________________
"You get to have your own beliefs, and your own wishes, and dreams, and imaginations. What you don't get to have is your own reality." - Sethbag

"Good thing your safe space isn't being violated with the horrors of self-awareness." - Dmetri Cromwell (some guy on Facebook)


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Who picks your food in the USA?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2018 9:32 am 
God
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jun 11, 2007 4:23 am
Posts: 12465
Location: On the imaginary axis
God loves America very much, so American food is usually picked by Jesus.

Image

_________________
Zadok:
I did not have a faith crisis. I discovered that the Church was having a truth crisis.
Maksutov:
That's the problem with this supernatural stuff, it doesn't really solve anything. It's a placeholder for ignorance.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Who picks your food in the USA?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2018 3:52 pm 
God
User avatar

Joined: Fri Oct 27, 2006 2:42 pm
Posts: 18937
Location: Koloburbia
Depends on whether commercial trucks or passenger vehicles are most prevalent on the highway that day. No possums where I live.

_________________
Cry Heaven and let loose the Penguins of Peace


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Who picks your food in the USA?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2018 7:47 pm 
God
User avatar

Joined: Tue Dec 26, 2006 8:29 pm
Posts: 3665
As Chap suggests, that is thanks to Jesus Gonzalez, Jesus Garcia, Jesus Gutierrez, Jesus La Cruz, and all their friends and relatives including Jesus Rivera who is three years old and whose social security number allows his dad, Jesus Rivera to work in the US.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Who picks your food in the USA?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2018 8:08 pm 
God
User avatar

Joined: Tue Oct 24, 2006 8:56 pm
Posts: 5012
We don't have slaves anymore. But how different is what we do with Latinos than slavery? They're not getting paid $18/hr. that's for sure.

_________________
And when the confederates saw Jackson standing fearless as a stone wall the army of Northern Virginia took courage and drove the federal army off their land.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Who picks your food in the USA?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2018 8:46 pm 
God
User avatar

Joined: Wed Dec 07, 2011 12:54 am
Posts: 4968
ajax18 wrote:
We don't have slaves anymore. But how different is what we do with Latinos than slavery? They're not getting paid $18/hr. that's for sure.

Well, for starters, they’re getting paid, period.

Then there’s the part about not being able to buy and sell your Latino employees, whip them, or impregnate them against their will legally. And they get to tell you, “Adios, pendejo!” when they decide to move on.

There are a few hundred other key differences, but I just don’t feel like I need to actually tell you those; the short list above should suffice. One thing’s for sure, though - there’s something about watching Fox that is seriously ____ up people’s brains, if this sort of question ends up being asked by their viewers.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Who picks your food in the USA?
PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2018 1:59 pm 
God
User avatar

Joined: Tue Oct 24, 2006 8:56 pm
Posts: 5012
Quote:
Well, for starters, they’re getting paid, period.


Have you ever seen the movie Angel City, Canpakes?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GhlLu_bwivE

This is a good answer to who picks your food in the USA.

"What you're saying doesn't make any sense. The more I pick the more I get paid, right?"

_________________
And when the confederates saw Jackson standing fearless as a stone wall the army of Northern Virginia took courage and drove the federal army off their land.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Who picks your food in the USA?
PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2018 2:22 pm 
God

Joined: Tue Dec 04, 2007 6:39 am
Posts: 13648
ajax18 wrote:
We don't have slaves anymore. But how different is what we do with Latinos than slavery? They're not getting paid $18/hr. that's for sure.



I like that for all your conspiracy mongering about dangerous communists behind every idea you disagree with, you have the most communist-friendly point of view of anyone on the board.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Who picks your food in the USA?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 05, 2018 1:36 am 
God
User avatar

Joined: Mon May 10, 2010 11:07 pm
Posts: 2035
Chap wrote:
God loves America very much, so American food is usually picked by Jesus.

Image


And he works like this

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/201 ... tions-jobs

and this
http://nfwm.org/education-center/farm-w ... low-wages/


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Who picks your food in the USA?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 05, 2018 2:00 am 
God
User avatar

Joined: Wed Dec 07, 2011 12:54 am
Posts: 4968
ajax18 wrote:
Quote:
Well, for starters, they’re getting paid, period.


Have you ever seen the movie Angel City, Canpakes?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GhlLu_bwivE

This is a good answer to who picks your food in the USA.

"What you're saying doesn't make any sense. The more I pick the more I get paid, right?"


Yes, I've seen this movie made almost 4 decades ago. What point do you wish to make from it? Here's a few you can choose from:

A. Replace those damn brown and black folks with white folks, so that the white folks can get screwed over, instead!

B. Replace those damn brown and black folks earning just about nothing with actual slaves, because it makes that crazy bookkeeping scheme unnecessary and keeps everyone happier!

C. Isn't it terrible how Mexicans came into this country and forced fruit and vegetable growers to pay them ____ wages?


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Who picks your food in the USA?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 05, 2018 6:16 am 
God
User avatar

Joined: Tue Oct 24, 2006 8:56 pm
Posts: 5012
I had no point with it. I just thought it was applicable to the original post.

We paid a very high price for bringing African slaves into the US to serve as cheap domestic labor. What makes you think Latin American cheap labor will be any different? There's always a hidden cost to cheap labor. Maybe we should learn from history and do our own work for a change.


Tell me how what Mr. Creedy was doing was any better than slavery?

_________________
And when the confederates saw Jackson standing fearless as a stone wall the army of Northern Virginia took courage and drove the federal army off their land.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Who picks your food in the USA?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 05, 2018 6:48 am 
God
User avatar

Joined: Wed Dec 07, 2011 12:54 am
Posts: 4968
ajax18 wrote:
There's always a hidden cost to cheap labor. Maybe we should learn from history and do our own work for a change.

Then you're going to have to talk to your good, conservative neighbors about it:

A. American employers have to be willing to pay a reasonable wage for this work,

B. American workers have to be willing to do this work,

C. American consumers have to be willing to pay enough to make it work.

Brown folks really aren't the actual problem in all of this.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Who picks your food in the USA?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 05, 2018 7:16 am 
God
User avatar

Joined: Tue Oct 24, 2006 8:56 pm
Posts: 5012
Quote:
Then you're going to have to talk to your good, conservative neighbors about it:

A. American employers have to be willing to pay a reasonable wage for this work,

B. American workers have to be willing to do this work,

C. American consumers have to be willing to pay enough to make it work.

Brown folks really aren't the actual problem in all of this


I couldn't agree more that brown folks aren't the actual problem. They're only here collecting our tax dollars and taking our jobs because those in power allow them to do so. It's big business republicans that want the cheap labor and democrat politicians who want the cheap votes. Those are the two forces that stop the border from being enforced.

_________________
And when the confederates saw Jackson standing fearless as a stone wall the army of Northern Virginia took courage and drove the federal army off their land.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Who picks your food in the USA?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 05, 2018 7:23 am 
God
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jun 11, 2007 4:23 am
Posts: 12465
Location: On the imaginary axis
ajax18 wrote:
I couldn't agree more that brown folks aren't the actual problem. They're only here collecting our tax dollars and taking our jobs because those in power allow them to do so. It's big business republicans that want the cheap labor and democrat politicians who want the cheap votes. Those are the two forces that stop the border from being enforced


So the mass of ordinary people, including Trump's core voter base, would, in your view, be perfectly happy to pay the higher food prices that would be the consequence of paying agricultural workers well enough to attract American workers to do those jobs?

What evidence do you have for that?

Your statement that 'cheap votes' can be gained by keeping food prices down suggests the contrary.

_________________
Zadok:
I did not have a faith crisis. I discovered that the Church was having a truth crisis.
Maksutov:
That's the problem with this supernatural stuff, it doesn't really solve anything. It's a placeholder for ignorance.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Who picks your food in the USA?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 05, 2018 8:29 am 
God
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 01, 2011 6:50 am
Posts: 10131
Location: Your mother's purse
canpakes wrote:
ajax18 wrote:
There's always a hidden cost to cheap labor. Maybe we should learn from history and do our own work for a change.

Then you're going to have to talk to your good, conservative neighbors about it:

A. American employers have to be willing to pay a reasonable wage for this work,

B. American workers have to be willing to do this work,

C. American consumers have to be willing to pay enough to make it work.

Brown folks really aren't the actual problem in all of this.

A. Is it your position that Conservatives are solely/more responsible for wages paid for "this work"?
B. American workers are not willing to do this work ?
C. That American consumers are not willing to pay enough to make it work?

and how are Brown folks not part of the problem? are Brown folks excluded from your A, B, and C scenarios above? Is this just a white folks problem because "only whites"?

footnote:
A. Does a reasonable wage for this work include Union dues? Do Labor Unions that allow illegal immigrant membership have any influence on this wage and are these Unions primarily Conservative? Does the promotion of illegal immigrant employment promote "reasonable wages"? Are you aware of the several labor unions involved in "this type of work"? Is there one political party way more heavily involved in labor unions?
B. Let us set aside the fact that in the industrialized world, Americans work more (longer days, less vacation, retire later)...Now focusing on "this work", who are the Americans that would otherwise be doing this work?...it is usually physically demanding or menial, correct? Not usually a "skilled" worker or "professional/educated" worker...so maybe a high school education is not even required - like a young healthy person would be a good fit, correct?...it is well documented that most immigrants (especially undocumented) are men ages 18 to 39....and let us not forget that this type of "work" is not suited to persons who are looking to put down roots in the community...the work is seasonal and relative to harvest periods, these workers are immigrants to our country but they necessarily migrate across jobs (to and fro).
So who are the Americans that could compete in this market?
The share of 16- to 24-year-olds saying they simply did not want to work rose from an average 29.5% in 2000 to an average 39.4% by 2015 - is this demographic primarily Conservative or Liberal? (ages 25 to 54 remained mostly unchanged and 55+ actually decreased).
....and is there any irony in the historical fact that early Spanish colonists utilized African slaves because the Spanish colonist were unwilling to do that sort of work?
C. Your notion sounds like some sort of free market mumbo jumbo - shouldn't the government just raise taxes on white people and subsidize ?

_________________
Seek freedom and become captive of your desires...seek discipline and find your liberty
I can tell if a person is judgmental just by looking at them
what is chaos to the fly is normal to the spider - morticia addams
If you're not upsetting idiots, you might be an idiot. - Ted Nugent


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Who picks your food in the USA?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 05, 2018 8:57 am 
God
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jun 11, 2007 4:23 am
Posts: 12465
Location: On the imaginary axis
canpakes wrote:
ajax18 wrote:
There's always a hidden cost to cheap labor. Maybe we should learn from history and do our own work for a change.

Then you're going to have to talk to your good, conservative neighbors about it:

A. American employers have to be willing to pay a reasonable wage for this work,

B. American workers have to be willing to do this work,

C. American consumers have to be willing to pay enough to make it work.

Brown folks really aren't the actual problem in all of this.


subgenius wrote:
A. Is it your position that Conservatives are solely/more responsible for wages paid for "this work"?
B. American workers are not willing to do this work ?
C. That American consumers are not willing to pay enough to make it work?
...


An odd set of responses from subgenius.

On A: frankly, I don't much care one way or another whether your average employer of seasonal agricultural labor is more likely to be Rep or Dem. I'd guess the former, but it remains certain that the labor shortage that would result from the exclusion of currently working migrant labourers won't be solved without wages that have been increased to a level that will attract Americans (though we can't be sure what that level is). Present levels certainly will not.

On B: Yup, looks like it. There are of course also some signs (as in the case of the Mar a Lago hiring policy for restaurant workers) that some employers recruit seasonal migrant labour preferentially to Americans. We don't, of course, know what wage level would be enough to attract t sufficient Americans into this kind of seasonal work. It might turn out to be higher than anyone is willing to pay for (see C).

On C: The only way to settle that question definitively would be to run on a political platform of a big hike in wages for seasonal agricultural labor, and be upfront with voters that this will raise the cost of their weekly shop. There are no signs that anybody much is about to do that. But let's put it this way: I don't think anybody is going to act on the basis that 'pay more so they get paid more' is likely to be a big vote winner. What do you think?

Overall: it is quite possible that it is economically and electorally impossible for the US to harvest a large proportion of its crops without seasonal migrant labour. If you think it's worth the risk, just try it and see ...

_________________
Zadok:
I did not have a faith crisis. I discovered that the Church was having a truth crisis.
Maksutov:
That's the problem with this supernatural stuff, it doesn't really solve anything. It's a placeholder for ignorance.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Who picks your food in the USA?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 05, 2018 11:03 am 
God
User avatar

Joined: Tue Oct 24, 2006 8:56 pm
Posts: 5012
Quote:
So the mass of ordinary people, including Trump's core voter base, would, in your view, be perfectly happy to pay the higher food prices that would be the consequence of paying agricultural workers well enough to attract American workers to do those jobs?


Why not? We're perfectly fine with paying higher prices for European and Asian goods until we win this trade war.

_________________
And when the confederates saw Jackson standing fearless as a stone wall the army of Northern Virginia took courage and drove the federal army off their land.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Who picks your food in the USA?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 05, 2018 11:12 am 
God
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jun 11, 2007 4:23 am
Posts: 12465
Location: On the imaginary axis
ajax18 wrote:
Quote:
So the mass of ordinary people, including Trump's core voter base, would, in your view, be perfectly happy to pay the higher food prices that would be the consequence of paying agricultural workers well enough to attract American workers to do those jobs?


Why not? We're perfectly fine with paying higher prices for European and Asian goods until we win this trade war.
ajax18 wrote:
Quote:
So the mass of ordinary people, including Trump's core voter base, would, in your view, be perfectly happy to pay the higher food prices that would be the consequence of paying agricultural workers well enough to attract American workers to do those jobs?


Why not? We're perfectly fine with paying higher prices for European and Asian goods until we win this trade war.


Half a minute - let me get this straight. You think that at some time in the future European and Asian food products will get cheaper than they are, do you? Let's assume you are right

But you believe that even when that happens, US consumers will still be willing to buy American food products, which will have become considerably more expensive since the relevant wages will have been increased to the point where American workers are willing to do the harvesting?

Really?

_________________
Zadok:
I did not have a faith crisis. I discovered that the Church was having a truth crisis.
Maksutov:
That's the problem with this supernatural stuff, it doesn't really solve anything. It's a placeholder for ignorance.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Who picks your food in the USA?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 05, 2018 12:10 pm 
God
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 01, 2011 6:50 am
Posts: 10131
Location: Your mother's purse
Chap wrote:

An odd set of responses from subgenius.

arguable, but since we're throwing out trivial commentary -
An odd set of responses from Chap.

Chap wrote:
On A: frankly, I don't much care one way or another whether your average employer of seasonal agricultural labor is more likely to be Rep or Dem. I'd guess the former, but it remains certain that the labor shortage that would result from the exclusion of currently working migrant labourers won't be solved without wages that have been increased to a level that will attract Americans (though we can't be sure what that level is). Present levels certainly will not.

Maybe, maybe not...the American demographic capable of fulfilling this workforce simply does not want to work.

Chap wrote:
On B: Yup, looks like it. There are of course also some signs (as in the case of the Mar a Lago hiring policy for restaurant workers) that some employers recruit seasonal migrant labour preferentially to Americans.

No, it is a market driven employment.

Chap wrote:
We don't, of course, know what wage level would be enough to attract t sufficient Americans into this kind of seasonal work. It might turn out to be higher than anyone is willing to pay for (see C).

And it might not...the assumption that it is purely wage level driven is interesting, but unlikely.

Chap wrote:
On C: The only way to settle that question definitively would be to run on a political platform of a big hike in wages for seasonal agricultural labor, and be upfront with voters that this will raise the cost of their weekly shop.

There are likely more indicative methods that provide more accurate measures for consumer behavior than the ballot.

Chap wrote:
There are no signs that anybody much is about to do that. But let's put it this way: I don't think anybody is going to act on the basis that 'pay more so they get paid more' is likely to be a big vote winner. What do you think?

I don't quite understand what you are asking about...i know the Democrats often act on the "they pay more so you get paid more" premise.

Chap wrote:
Overall: it is quite possible that it is economically and electorally impossible for the US to harvest a large proportion of its crops without seasonal migrant labour. If you think it's worth the risk, just try it and see ...

I agree that seasonal migrant labor is integral, but no one is talking about erasing that force...it is just whether that force is made of up of illegal/undocumented immigrants or citizens.
Anyway, it is not "impossible" as the robot force increases. Automation is the single biggest threat to this type of workforce in America.
Consider this side-story...Years ago a Chinese delegate came to our offices to give a presentation on their Marble/Granite export capabilities (our company uses hella-lot of granite and marble). We were already aware of how it much cheaper to have stone quarried and processed overseas than in the States..heck it is even cheaper to quarry stone here (eg Vermont) and ship it to Italy for processing and then ship it back to the States than having it all done Stateside...yep, those stone Union wages are just that cost prohibitive.
Anyway, the Chinese went through their presentation and the inquiry was made about the modern quality of processing equipment at their production facilities (laser guided cutting tools and what-not)...the delegation quickly noted how everything is done "by hand" because they cannot afford to displace so many people with automation....like how Chinese cigarettes are still hand rolled by hundreds of workers, etc.
So it became apparent how their is a critical mass for the displacement of labor by automation and when comparing Chinese population to American it would seem that "there is plenty of time" for that concern....but it is not just robots that can displace a labor force. Yes, people may seemingly not want this job or that job because the necessity has not reached critical mass as of yet...but did the Chinese make the right call? Should they not have chosen the robot work force over their own people? Would not the efficiencies offered eventually allow for all those workers to enjoy entitlement after entitlement ? free from the constraints of "working for a living"?

So, Chinese granite and marble is everywhere in the States, most likely your recent upgraded countertop - but it is inferior quality...it is all you would expect from a Chinese knock-off...aka, you get what you pay for...nevertheless, we chose to not do business with the Chinese that day (though I scored some great tea) and we still do not....our stone suppliers still source from South America and Italy - because yeah, America is still cost-prohibitive to Americans.

_________________
Seek freedom and become captive of your desires...seek discipline and find your liberty
I can tell if a person is judgmental just by looking at them
what is chaos to the fly is normal to the spider - morticia addams
If you're not upsetting idiots, you might be an idiot. - Ted Nugent


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Who picks your food in the USA?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 05, 2018 1:29 pm 
God
User avatar

Joined: Wed Dec 07, 2011 12:54 am
Posts: 4968
subs, is it common for agricultural workers to use strikes or collective bargaining to force their employers to pay them lower wages in any given situation? I’m just trying to determine their role in that process to a better degree.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 47 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3  Next

All times are UTC - 7 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 11 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Jump to:  
Revival Theme By Brandon Designs By B.Design-Studio © 2007-2008 Brandon
Revival Theme Based off SubLite By Echo © 2007-2008 Echo
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group