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 Post subject: Justice Kennedy's Son and Trump's $1 billion Loan
PostPosted: Sat Jun 30, 2018 5:19 am 
Bishop

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What. In the ever. ____

From Business Insider:

Trump's business career is more connected to Supreme Court Justice Anthony Kennedy than we ever knew

Quote:
The son of Supreme Court Justice Anthony Kennedy was leading a real-estate division of Deutsche Bank as it gave President Donald Trump over $1 billion in loans to finance his real-estate projects when other banks wouldn't, The New York Times reported Thursday.

Justin Kennedy, the former global head of Deutsche Bank's real-estate capital markets division, was one of Trump's close business associates, The Times reported, citing two sources familiar with the matter.

Because of Trump's inconsistent track record in business, which included multiple bankruptcy filings and frequent lawsuits, most other major banks would not lend to him. Deutsche Bank loaned Trump the funds to construct and renovate skyscrapers and other developments in New York City and Chicago, The Times reported.

After Trump's first address to Congress, in February 2017, he reportedly stopped to chat with Anthony Kennedy, saying: "Say hello to your boy. Special guy."

The Times article describes an unusually close relationship between Anthony Kennedy and Trump and a "quiet campaign" from the White House to encourage Kennedy to retire. Trump has praised Kennedy and his work, though it has included decisions on hot-button issues such as abortion, marriage equality, and the death penalty that many conservatives disagreed with.

After nominating Neil Gorsuch to fill a Supreme Court vacancy in January 2017, Trump appointed three judges who had previously clerked for Kennedy to federal appeals courts, and he included another two on the shortlist to fill any subsequent vacancies on the Supreme Court, The Times reported.

Kennedy's retirement announcement on Wednesday sent shockwaves through Washington and constituted a victory for Trump, who will choose Kennedy's replacement, pending confirmation from the Republican-controlled Senate.

By nominating a solidly conservative justice to replace Kennedy, who was known as a "swing vote" and a decider in many key cases, Trump and the Senate can swing the ideological balance of the court to the right, a move that is likely to satisfy his base ahead of crucial midterm elections this year.


If the tables were turned and this were happening during the second year of Obama, it would be enough fodder for at least 14 conspiracy theories to consume at least two decades of Right Wing media attention. As it is, this is just business as usual for their puppet master in chief, so move along. Nothing to see here.


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 Post subject: Re: Justice Kennedy's Son and Trump's $1 billion Loan
PostPosted: Sat Jun 30, 2018 9:46 am 
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Hawkeye wrote:

If the tables were turned and this were happening during the second year of Obama, it would be enough fodder for at least 14 conspiracy theories to consume at least two decades of Right Wing media attention. As it is, this is just business as usual for their puppet master in chief, so move along. Nothing to see here.
Normally, yeah, but not this one. It seems like conspiracy mongering on this story has really taken off on the left. It's more of a parallel situation than an asymmetric one. I'm still not sure what the conspiracy is even supposed to be despite the avalanche of commentary about it. It's mostly Glenn Beckian in that people are throwing a bunch of a connections against the wall and letting the impression of sinister implication do the work.


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 Post subject: Re: Justice Kennedy's Son and Trump's $1 billion Loan
PostPosted: Sat Jun 30, 2018 10:01 am 
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Hawkeye wrote:
move along. Nothing to see here.

sounds like your response to every time the Clinton Foundation and Russia, and Goldman Sachs, and campaign donors, and state department, and so on....so welcome to the party, what took you so long?

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 Post subject: Re: Justice Kennedy's Son and Trump's $1 billion Loan
PostPosted: Sat Jun 30, 2018 10:04 am 
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All I can say is that it was wildly irresponsible of Justice Kennedy to retire right now. The only good reason for it would be private health concerns of a very serious nature. If Kennedy is retiring just because, it does not speak well of his judgment. Trump is an enemy of the Constitution and our system of laws. It’s all hands on deck to minimize the harm Trump is doing to the Republic.


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 Post subject: Re: Justice Kennedy's Son and Trump's $1 billion Loan
PostPosted: Sat Jun 30, 2018 10:08 am 
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subgenius wrote:
Hawkeye wrote:
move along. Nothing to see here.

sounds like your response to every time the Clinton Foundation and Russia, and Goldman Sachs, and campaign donors, and state department, and so on....so welcome to the party, what took you so long?


So you buy into all of these conspiracy theories?


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 Post subject: Re: Justice Kennedy's Son and Trump's $1 billion Loan
PostPosted: Sat Jun 30, 2018 10:08 am 
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Kishkumen wrote:
All I can say is that it was wildly irresponsible of Justice Kennedy to retire right now. The only good reason for it would be private health concerns of a very serious nature. If Kennedy is retiring just because, it does not speak well of his judgment. Trump is an enemy of the Constitution and our system of laws. It’s all hands on deck to minimize the harm Trump is doing to the Republic.

blah blah blah, "irresponsible" is in the eyes of the beholder.
Justice Kennedy is doing a great service to America. The nightmare of an appointment by Democrat is averted.

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 Post subject: Re: Justice Kennedy's Son and Trump's $1 billion Loan
PostPosted: Sat Jun 30, 2018 10:16 am 
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Kishkumen wrote:

So you buy into all of these conspiracy theories?

"buy into" is a bit exaggerated....
I have long stated my appreciation for such theories, regardless of party affiliation. Conspiracies are how most everything in this world, today and through history, gets accomplished.
And Clintons....geez, Clintons are the masters of a style of politics that was a beautiful in its art of conspiracy. Granted that style is passing, but they will forever be its archetype. At best Obama was their puppet, bought and paid for - his legacy will forever be as their Uncle Tom, which is a shame (the buyer's remorse for Obama is real).

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 Post subject: Re: Justice Kennedy's Son and Trump's $1 billion Loan
PostPosted: Sat Jun 30, 2018 10:26 am 
Seedy Academician
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subgenius wrote:
blah blah blah, "irresponsible" is in the eyes of the beholder.
Justice Kennedy is doing a great service to America. The nightmare of an appointment by Democrat is averted.


What’s blah blah blah is the fact that you can’t see past R and D. Trump is a different character. He isn’t really in the tradition of R or D, and he only plays the two off of each other for his own benefit. So your commentary consistently misses the point. What we need is a return to order in the legislature, and lawfulness in the executive. In the judiciary we need competence and respect for the rule of law. Trump has a spotty record in appointing judges. He is not the kind of guy any responsible person should be eager to have making lifetime appointments to the bench. The guy can’t even be bothered to read.

And here you sit spouting all of this whataboutism. It doesn’t seem to matter to you whether something is wrong or dangerous or clearly harmful. You just want to argue that Democrats are just as bad or worse.

I want a president who behaves like a statesman, you know, responsibly, who deliberates carefully, understands what is at stake, and makes wise decisions. I am not interested in ignorance, celebrity, shallowness, boorishness, irresponsibility, spendthrift habits, disregard for the less fortunate, etc, etc. Give me a Republican with real character and wisdom before a Democrat who lacks these qualities.

It’s not about the political tribe.


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 Post subject: Re: Justice Kennedy's Son and Trump's $1 billion Loan
PostPosted: Sat Jun 30, 2018 10:45 am 
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subgenius wrote:
I have long stated my appreciation for such theories, regardless of party affiliation. Conspiracies are how most everything in this world, today and through history, gets accomplished.
And Clintons....geez, Clintons are the masters of a style of politics that was a beautiful in its art of conspiracy. Granted that style is passing, but they will forever be its archetype. At best Obama was their puppet, bought and paid for - his legacy will forever be as their Uncle Tom, which is a shame (the buyer's remorse for Obama is real).


I have long viewed conspiracy theories to be a false source of comfort for people who fail to grasp how complex the world is. It is more realistic to say that governance has an oligarchic tendency. In any given situation often the decisions of a few have an outsized influence. It is also the case that human relations usually have a transactional aspect. Between these two facts it is easy to see why conspiracy theories are popular. Most popular conspiracy theories, however, are nonsense.


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 Post subject: Re: Justice Kennedy's Son and Trump's $1 billion Loan
PostPosted: Sat Jun 30, 2018 10:53 am 
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Kishkumen wrote:
subgenius wrote:
I have long stated my appreciation for such theories, regardless of party affiliation. Conspiracies are how most everything in this world, today and through history, gets accomplished.
And Clintons....geez, Clintons are the masters of a style of politics that was a beautiful in its art of conspiracy. Granted that style is passing, but they will forever be its archetype. At best Obama was their puppet, bought and paid for - his legacy will forever be as their Uncle Tom, which is a shame (the buyer's remorse for Obama is real).


I have long viewed conspiracy theories to be a false source of comfort for people who fail to grasp how complex the world is. It is more realistic to say that governance has an oligarchic tendency. In any given situation often the decisions of a few have an outsized influence. It is also the case that human relations usually have a transactional aspect. Between these two facts it is easy to see why conspiracy theories are popular. Most popular conspiracy theories, however, are nonsense.

Keep in mind that you’re conversing with a poster who believes that the Clinton Kill List is real, while simultaneously asserting that there is no evidence that the Germans ever gassed anyone during WWII.

Your road here to a sensible and honest discussion between two parties will be long and arduous, with a good chance that the path washed out long ago.


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 Post subject: Re: Justice Kennedy's Son and Trump's $1 billion Loan
PostPosted: Sat Jun 30, 2018 11:09 am 
Bishop

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subgenius wrote:
Hawkeye wrote:
move along. Nothing to see here.

sounds like your response to every time the Clinton Foundation and Russia, and Goldman Sachs, and campaign donors, and state department, and so on....so welcome to the party, what took you so long?


Unlike the bogus charities paying for Trump's paintings and legal fees, the Clinton Foundation is actually a reputable, transparent charity.


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 Post subject: Re: Justice Kennedy's Son and Trump's $1 billion Loan
PostPosted: Sat Jun 30, 2018 11:16 am 
Bishop

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EAllusion wrote:
Hawkeye wrote:

If the tables were turned and this were happening during the second year of Obama, it would be enough fodder for at least 14 conspiracy theories to consume at least two decades of Right Wing media attention. As it is, this is just business as usual for their puppet master in chief, so move along. Nothing to see here.
Normally, yeah, but not this one. It seems like conspiracy mongering on this story has really taken off on the left. It's more of a parallel situation than an asymmetric one. I'm still not sure what the conspiracy is even supposed to be despite the avalanche of commentary about it. It's mostly Glenn Beckian in that people are throwing a bunch of a connections against the wall and letting the impression of sinister implication do the work.


I'm not sure what the conspiracy is either, but it seems fishy to say the least especially when we know how Trump operates on planet quid pro quo. He doesn't fawn over anyone unless they're doing him favors. You have the son of a Supreme Court Justice giving Trump $1 billion when no one else would because he's not credit worthy. That in and of itself a huge favor. Then you have his father retiring out of nowhere during Trump's first term so he can replace him with another radical religious nut. Kennedy isn't an idiot. He knows his replacement is likely to be Gorsuch 2.0. The question that remains is what is the Kennedy family getting in return.


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 Post subject: Re: Justice Kennedy's Son and Trump's $1 billion Loan
PostPosted: Sat Jun 30, 2018 11:51 am 
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Hawkeye wrote:
Unlike the bogus charities paying for Trump's paintings and legal fees, the Clinton Foundation is actually a reputable, transparent charity.

and as if on cue you post - "move along. Nothing to see here.".
:lol:

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I can tell if a person is judgmental just by looking at them
what is chaos to the fly is normal to the spider - morticia addams
If you're not upsetting idiots, you might be an idiot. - Ted Nugent


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 Post subject: Re: Justice Kennedy's Son and Trump's $1 billion Loan
PostPosted: Sat Jun 30, 2018 4:53 pm 
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subgenius wrote:
Hawkeye wrote:
Unlike the bogus charities paying for Trump's paintings and legal fees, the Clinton Foundation is actually a reputable, transparent charity.

and as if on cue you post - "move along. Nothing to see here.".
:lol:

You are free to post the 'something'. There's lots of bandwidth here for your hair-fire conspiracy notes; have at it.


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 Post subject: Re: Justice Kennedy's Son and Trump's $1 billion Loan
PostPosted: Sat Jun 30, 2018 5:16 pm 
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I think it is weird that all of this is coming out now. I'd ask Res Ipsa's input on this, but I would think that Justice of Kennedy would have numerous areas of potential conflicts of interests.

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 Post subject: Re: Justice Kennedy's Son and Trump's $1 billion Loan
PostPosted: Sat Jun 30, 2018 7:44 pm 
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It's interesting that sites like Predictit have seen a slight dip from practical certainty Kennedy will be the next justice to retire on Thursday to trading a couple of percentage points down from absolute certainty today. Looks like some people are willing to risk a little money on the off chance the news impacts his announcement. But he's been the odds on favorite for a while to be the next justice to leave office followed by Ginsberg. Ginsberg would almost certainly have retired by now if Clinton had been elected, though. So turns out people who couldn't stand Clinton and voted third party or stayed home last election really didn't understand the stakes. Especially given the number of people who felt so strongly about overturning Roe v. Wade they would even vote for pussy-grabbing, clearing lacking an honest bone in his body, the red-haired derriere Donald F'in Trump to be our President. I mean, Ginsberg is 85 and despite being healthy for a person decades younger than her age, the actuarial tables don't lie when they indicate Trump could very well get a third appointee before 2020. The President potentially being able to name three justices to the court was a topic before the election, but apparently not among venues where people were paying attention I guess.

Frankly, this whole Supreme Court thing over Kennedy retiring makes me despise liberals a little bit. A little late to actually give a ____, folks. But let's make sure Rachel Maddow gets emotional and lots of protest placards get made because that's how we protect democracy.

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 Post subject: Re: Justice Kennedy's Son and Trump's $1 billion Loan
PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2018 5:57 am 
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DONALD TRUMP MADE JUSTICE KENNEDY AN OFFER HE COULDN’T REFUSE

Behind the scenes, the president worked for months to assure Kennedy his legacy would be in good hands. “I think the Gorsuch nomination had a huge impact,” one law professor said.

The left was stunned by the announcement that Justice Anthony Kennedy, one of the decisive swing votes on the Supreme Court, will retire next month, opening yet another lifetime appointment for Donald Trump to fill. “The timing,” as constitutional law professor Jonathan Turley said shortly after, “could not be worse for the Democrats”: with the Supreme Court filibuster a thing of the past, and at least two and a half years until Trump leaves office, Democrats have virtually no options to prevent the president from naming whichever candidate he likes. “Things look pretty bleak,” another legal expert told me.

Inside the White House, however, news of Kennedy’s retirement didn’t come as a shock. In fact, as The New York Times reports, the 81-year-old’s announcement was the culmination of a carefully orchestrated 17-month campaign by the Trump administration to remake the Supreme Court before the 2018 midterms, when there is an outside chance that Republicans could lose their majority. For conservatives, Kennedy’s seat was seen as one of they keys to rolling back abortion rights—on the campaign trail, Trump pledged to appoint a justice who would overturn Roe v. Wade. But first, Trump had to demonstrate to Kennedy that he could be trusted to nominate quality jurists to the Supreme Court. The campaign was multifaceted: over the course of several months, Trump systematically nominated three of Kennedy’s former clerks for plum judicial posts. While he criticized other, more conservative members of the court, he lavished praise on Kennedy—despite the fact that the justice has been pilloried by the right for his votes on social issues. And he cultivated a relationship with Justice Kennedy’s son, Justin, who worked closely with the Trump Organization in his role at Deutsche Bank as the global head of real-estate capital markets, according to the Times.

The overtures continued outside the White House. Ivanka Trump reportedly took Kennedy to lunch shortly after the inauguration and brought her daughter Arabella Kushner to the Supreme Court to hear oral arguments as special guest of Kennedy shortly after. Republican Senator Chuck Grassley, who serves as chairman of the Senate Judiciary Committee, went on conservative commentator Hugh Hewitt’s radio show last month to implore the court’s aging judges, “If you’re thinking about quitting this year, do it yesterday.”

Perhaps most important, Trump used the nomination of Neil Gorsuch to demonstrate to Kennedy how his own legacy could be preserved. He ensured that Kennedy was involved in swearing in Gorsuch, who used to clerk for him—something that gave Kennedy “virtually parental pride,” Turley told me, describing Kennedy’s obvious delight at the ceremony’s after-party. After Gorsuch was sworn in, the White House made sure to float two more potential Supreme Court candidates—Judge Brett Kavanaugh of the United States Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia Circuit and Judge Raymond Kethledge—both of whom also clerked for Kennedy.

“I think the Gorsuch nomination was reassuring,” Turley explained. “I think it gained him a level of trust with Trump that he could discern a quality nominee, that he could find a quality nominee that could also fulfill his pledge to appoint a conservative nominee. I think the Gorsuch nomination had a huge impact on Kennedy and if I was to point at anything explaining the timing [of Kennedy’s retirement], I would probably have to say it was the Gorsuch nomination.”

For Trump and the Republican Party, winning Kennedy’s trust paid off. “The promise that [Trump] made the most often was to put a reliably conservative jurist on the court. Everyone understood that to be about Kennedy,” Turley said. “So we have every reason to expect that he will select someone more conservative than Kennedy.”

Of course, there is no guarantee that a Trump nominee will sail through the Senate. With a slim majority of 51 to 49 in the upper chamber, and the absence of Senator John McCain, who is home in Arizona battling cancer, a single Republican defection could tank a Trump Supreme Court nomination. As I reported on Thursday, Senators Susan Collins of Maine and Lisa Murkowski of Alaska are viewed as potential turncoats if Trump names a justice too far to the right, given their past support for women’s reproductive health. While a Republican Senate aide told me that “Nothing unites Republicans of all stripes like judges,” Collins and Murkowski could break ranks if “Trump nominates someone truly objectionable.” Already, both senators have signaled that the president should look beyond the short list of more than two-dozen names the White House released.

The possibility of Collins and Murkowski defecting is not lost on their fellow Republicans. Senator John Thune of South Dakota urged the administration to find someone palatable for the two senators. “As much as you can, find somebody Collins and Murkowski can support,” he said. “I think we ought to plan to get this done with Republican votes.” The White House is taking their concerns seriously. According to Politico, White House counsel Don McGahn called Collins on Thursday for what the Maine Republican characterized as a “preliminary discussion” about the vacancy. Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell met privately with Murkowski on Thursday afternoon, though she didn’t comment on what they discussed.


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 Post subject: Re: Justice Kennedy's Son and Trump's $1 billion Loan
PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2018 7:23 am 
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Hawkeye wrote:
The question that remains is what is the Kennedy family getting in return.
The answer might simply be that the "Kennedy family" is getting to finally retire in his 80's. Or Justice Kennedy was more conservative, partisan Republican, and/or naïve than you thought. There doesn't have to be any kind of sinister connection and there's no there there at this point.


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 Post subject: Re: Justice Kennedy's Son and Trump's $1 billion Loan
PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2018 7:56 am 
Bishop

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EAllusion wrote:
Hawkeye wrote:
The question that remains is what is the Kennedy family getting in return.
The answer might simply be that the "Kennedy family" is getting to finally retire in his 80's. Or Justice Kennedy was more conservative, partisan Republican, and/or naïve than you thought. There doesn't have to be any kind of sinister connection and there's no there there at this point.


Well the thing that makes this so weird is he's deciding to do this right after the Times published a piece about Trump's financial connections with his son. Coincidence I guess.


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 Post subject: Re: Justice Kennedy's Son and Trump's $1 billion Loan
PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2018 8:05 am 
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EAllusion wrote:
Hawkeye wrote:
The question that remains is what is the Kennedy family getting in return.
The answer might simply be that the "Kennedy family" is getting to finally retire in his 80's. Or Justice Kennedy was more conservative, partisan Republican, and/or naïve than you thought. There doesn't have to be any kind of sinister connection and there's no there there at this point.

Both Kennedy and Ginsberg were identified as likely to retire during this presidential term before the world was shocked by Clinton's loss. I agree, there doesn't seem to be a real story here. Maybe the Trump admin HAS been suggesting to Kennedy that retiring would be a good idea. It's what any republican administration would be doing. We're talking about politics. If Clinton had won, Ginsberg would almost certainly have announced her retirement within the year by all accounts.

In many ways I feel like this is another one of those issues where liberals are just barely waking up to truths conservatives have known and had strategies on for a long time. Like the need to control state legislatures and governorships, or the importance of census year control, suddenly it seems people who identify as liberals are realizing that the ability to make a life-time appointment to the Supreme Court is immensely impactful and should be a top priority in one's thinking when considering the potential outcomes of a Presidential election. The evangelicals who made overhauling the Supreme Court their top priority and held their noses while punching their tickets for Trump are feeling vindicated. And they are doing so with much more just cause compared to the ajax-type voters who only want to see a wall built on our southern border.

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 Post subject: Re: Justice Kennedy's Son and Trump's $1 billion Loan
PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2018 9:49 am 
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Hawkeye wrote:

If the tables were turned and this were happening during the second year of Obama, it would be enough fodder for at least 14 conspiracy theories to consume at least two decades of Right Wing media attention. As it is, this is just business as usual for their puppet master in chief, so move along. Nothing to see here.


LMAO

Who would ever make a loan to Obama for a private development? It would take years to first teach Obama the concept of “return on capital”! The idea is as much mind boggling as it is hilarious.

Obama, much like Bill and Hillary only understand “return on Capitol”!!

You are a funny guy Kevin!


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