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 Post subject: perception is everything?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2018 5:48 am 
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Tune into Twitter, and you'd think the entire civilized world has turned against him. And yet:

:arrow: Gallup has Trump's approval at a new high since the beginning of his presidency: 45%. That's roughly the same as others at this point: Barack Obama (46%), Bill Clinton (46%), Ronald Reagan (45%) and Jimmy Carter (43%).
:arrow: Support among Republicans is 90% in Gallup, also a high.
:arrow: Among independents, he's up to 42% — tied for his personal best, and only the fourth week in his presidency that he has been at 40% or above.
:arrow: Trump's attacks on Mueller are working, too: The special counsel has a 53% unfavorable rating in Morning Consult polling — a new high, and a whopping 26-point spike since July of 2017

https://www.axios.com/donald-trump-poli ... 0e560.html

and so on.

So, is perception everything? or will November 2018 suddenly manifest something altogether different?

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 Post subject: Re: perception is everything?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2018 7:05 am 
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He certainly is the opioid of choice for a good number of folks.


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 Post subject: Re: perception is everything?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2018 7:19 am 
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https://www.npr.org/sections/health-sho ... rt-in-2016

No surprise here


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 Post subject: Re: perception is everything?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2018 9:07 am 
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subgenius wrote:
:arrow: Trump's attacks on Mueller are working, too: The special counsel has a 53% unfavorable rating in Morning Consult polling — a new high, and a whopping 26-point spike since July of 2017

So, is perception everything?

Let's call it the Goebbels Effect. Tell big lies, make them simple, and tell them often enough and people will start to believe it.

Soon Chancellor Trump will be asking for emergency powers to rout the menace of the lying media.

Chancellor Trump wrote:
Wehrmacht is a good word. A powerful word. Not one of those words like Poo-where-toe Reeco which is spoken by bad hombres and the lying media.

We need a Wehrmacht that can take care of this lying media and Make America Great Again. I have done more to protect America from this lying media than any being in the known universe. Russia and North Korea both know I am great. #ChancellorTrump2020

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 Post subject: Re: perception is everything?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2018 2:23 pm 
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canpakes wrote:
He certainly is the opioid of choice for a good number of folks.

Obviously these folks don't follow Hawkeye's twitter account...which is the point of the opening post...clearly, Hawkeye and his ilk heavily rely on social media for their news/opinion/self-worth - but apparently that internet hair-fire of memes and snark are out of proportion with the polls.

So, seemingly the President tweets not for his faithful, but for those who seek to quench their 'habit' via 140 characters a dose...it seems that Trump has managed to get a certain "type" of person so addicted to distractions that he has (according to the record of facts) managed to accomplish many things under the cover provided by the plethora of hair-fires.....and it seems that the math for November 2018 is going to work out just fine for the Republicans.....Red Wave as it were.

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 Post subject: Re: perception is everything?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2018 3:37 pm 
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subgenius wrote:
...it seems that Trump has managed to get a certain "type" of person so addicted to distractions that he has (according to the record of facts) managed to accomplish many things under the cover provided by the plethora of hair-fires....

You pretend that the worlds of Facebook and Twitter exist without overlap, and that voters for Trump are not part of either world? So interesting.

You also assume that the Administration, if keeping folks occupied with ‘hair-fire distractions’’, does so to benefit that portion of The Base that is both the most populous, and economically disadvantaged cohort. This is also fascinating.


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 Post subject: Re: perception is everything?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2018 6:34 pm 
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canpakes wrote:
subgenius wrote:
...it seems that Trump has managed to get a certain "type" of person so addicted to distractions that he has (according to the record of facts) managed to accomplish many things under the cover provided by the plethora of hair-fires....

You pretend that the worlds of Facebook and Twitter exist without overlap, and that voters for Trump are not part of either world? So interesting.

You also assume that the Administration, if keeping folks occupied with ‘hair-fire distractions’’, does so to benefit that portion of The Base that is both the most populous, and economically disadvantaged cohort. This is also fascinating.

yet the numbers are more fascinating than your speculations.
#winning

#overlap? how so? are you suggesting that all these poor ignorant racists are Twitter heads?.....then why we no smell their hair fires more often?

#numbersLOOKgood
#sayWHATnovember2018

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 Post subject: Re: perception is everything?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2018 6:45 pm 
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subgenius wrote:
yet the numbers are more fascinating than your speculations.
#winning


The number you cited was a temporary high that has reverted down to 41%. Such are the perils of overreacting to a single blip in a single poll. Trump is the most unpopular president in his first term in the history of measuring presidential popularity. He is managing this despite inheriting economic conditions that normally predict approvals 20+ points higher than what he has. That's a heck of a thing to describe as "winning." He's a perpetual loser who manages to get lucky enough to stay afloat until he doesn't. Maybe his luck will hold up with the economy and maybe it won't. He sure as heck isn't helping his chances with igniting a trade war. In the meantime, we are witnessing economic power over the electorate to buoy Trump into an area that is still accurately described as quite unpopular.

That he's at this level of popularity is amazing: both from the perspective of how bad you can be and still get a sizeable chunk of the public and from the fact that he exists in conditions that normally make a president crazy-popular.


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 Post subject: Re: perception is everything?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2018 8:44 pm 
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Anyone with a single thread of decency or a modicum of civics knowledge should be ashamed to support this corrupt and corrupting creature.


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 Post subject: Re: perception is everything?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2018 11:07 pm 
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subgenius wrote:
#overlap? how so? are you suggesting that all these poor ignorant racists are Twitter heads?.....then why we no smell their hair fires more often?

It's bad enough that I'd have to, say, point out the painfully obvious and continual hair fires of #DiamondandSilk and their enraged troop of easily-duped followers as just one example amongst many - let alone a certain President unable to contain his daily Twitter vomiting of petty, vindictive, conspiratorial ____ - but you're actually making your claim in the midst of the latest national Conservoshart via Twitter regarding the Red Hen.

But go ahead, and tell me another delusion of yours. The bandwidth is nearly limitless; knock yourself out.


subgenius wrote:
yet the numbers are more fascinating than your speculations.
#winning

Ah, yesss ... the #winning!! Sooo! Much! Winning!!

Do tell ... which part is the #winning?

The stagnant stock market?
The increase in our debt?
Gas prices climbing?
Interest rates rising?
Relative wage levels staying basically flat?
Your health care and insurance costs climbing?
Social Security and Medicare forecasted to become insolvent even sooner than thought last year?
Our giveaway to North Korea for their having to give up nothing in return?
Being smacked down by Mexico and having to pay billions for a useless wall?
Our continued international fall from a position of respect and trust?
Presidential 'leadership' that demonstrates relentless juvenile self-pity as its only defining value?

Oh, wait - I got it! Transgender folks can't have their own bathroom! Victoryyy!

Lol. Yep. Trump voters, you're all 'winning'! Every one of you is a winner! Don't pay no never mind if something starts to feel a little funny in a few years, OK? Just keep telling yourselves about the #winning while the rest of us watch you give yourself the slow shaft up your own arse. ; )


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 Post subject: Re: perception is everything?
PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2018 1:34 am 
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Kishkumen wrote:
Anyone with a single thread of decency or a modicum of civics knowledge should be ashamed to support this corrupt and corrupting creature.

Double amen to that! A big part of the problem is that there are too many people who would rather persist in their stupidity than effectively admit to having been stupid in the first place by abandoning that stupidity. I think sometimes that the greater the stupidity, the more likely that is. Trump supporters are like flat earthers in that respect. The stupider their claims, the more ingeniously they try to avoid the appearance of stupidity by inventing ad hoc, convoluted, yet demonstrably false explanations to justify rejecting a reality that conflicts with what they so desperately want to believe.

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 Post subject: Re: perception is everything?
PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2018 8:41 am 
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EAllusion wrote:
subgenius wrote:
yet the numbers are more fascinating than your speculations.
#winning

The number you cited was a temporary high that has reverted down to 41%. Such are the perils of overreacting to a single blip in a single poll. Trump is the most unpopular president in his first term in the history of measuring presidential popularity. He is managing this despite inheriting economic conditions that normally predict approvals 20+ points higher than what he has. That's a heck of a thing to describe as "winning." He's a perpetual loser who manages to get lucky enough to stay afloat until he doesn't. Maybe his luck will hold up with the economy and maybe it won't. He sure as heck isn't helping his chances with igniting a trade war. In the meantime, we are witnessing economic power over the electorate to buoy Trump into an area that is still accurately described as quite unpopular.

That he's at this level of popularity is amazing: both from the perspective of how bad you can be and still get a sizeable chunk of the public and from the fact that he exists in conditions that normally make a president crazy-popular.

notwithstanding your admirable hedging, but the opening post was clear that there is an interesting contrast between how Trump currently enjoys numbers remarkable similar to his predecessors and the hair-fire that consumes the twitter-sphere.

So spin all ye want, but #winning is a reality...while you have obsessed over Russia, porn-stars, and Obama immigrant shelters the Administration has seen legislative victory after victory; has passed tax-reform; has kicked ACA in the groin; has muted DEM party leaders; successful judicial appointments; Israel; Coal; School-choice; Medicare; Deregulation; Korea; and welfare is on the horizon.....and while this list may not be to your liking; and may not be DNC platform, the fact remains that to Trump and Trump supporters these accomplishments are wins...and they are.

"Popularity" is relative and #winning does not require such a thing...but i get it, the 8 years of being in a cult of presidency is difficult to adjust from; comes with certain levels of denial and post-mortem rationalizations (like poll numbers being "lucky").

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 Post subject: Re: perception is everything?
PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2018 9:00 am 
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subgenius wrote:
notwithstanding your admirable hedging, but the opening post was clear that there is an interesting contrast between how Trump currently enjoys numbers remarkable similar to his predecessors and the hair-fire that consumes the twitter-sphere.

Really? Obama was the target of constant hair-fire by the right wing media going into the 2010 mid-terms that gave rise to the Tea Party. I don't see how you can feel that what is going on with Trump is somehow unique. Well, other than the nature of the attacks on his don't rise to the level of whether or not he holds a cup while saluting or wears the wrong colored suit for your taste...

That said, as a general trend the President's party can expect backlash in the midterm following a Presidential election anyway. That said, the GOP has strong tailwinds going into the 2018 midterms. Gerrymandering favors the house races while the make-up of the seats up this term in the Senate are another disadvantage for Democrats.

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 Post subject: Re: perception is everything?
PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2018 9:07 am 
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subgenius wrote:
legislative victory after victory;

And the win is... what? The ability to, say, pollute more?

Quote:
has passed tax-reform;

Are you loving the highest debt levels ever? Where are you spending your extra 20 bucks?

Quote:
has kicked ACA in the groin;

Congratulations on your increasing insurance costs. There goes your 20 bucks!

Quote:
has muted DEM party leaders;

That might actually be a win for the Democrats, but whatever floats your boat. ; )

Quote:
successful judicial appointments;

The payoff being ...?

Quote:
Israel;

We won Israel? Where will we put it?

Quote:
Coal;

We have coal now, and we didn’t before? Maybe you’re converting your car to coal to beat higher gas prices? Got black lung?

Quote:
School-choice;

This didn’t exist before?

Quote:
Medicare;

Oh, is it fully functional, now?

Quote:
Deregulation;

Can you give some deregulation examples that are winnish? Were clean water standards, perhaps, causing you grief?

Quote:
Korea;

We won giving up our exercises with South Korea for nothing from North Korea? Or are you getting free shipments of kimchee?

Quote:
and welfare is on the horizon.....

Sorry, cannot have won something that is still on the horizon.

Not much winning here. But I applaud your spirit. You get a trophy!


Last edited by canpakes on Tue Jun 26, 2018 9:14 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: perception is everything?
PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2018 9:13 am 
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honorentheos wrote:
subgenius wrote:
notwithstanding your admirable hedging, but the opening post was clear that there is an interesting contrast between how Trump currently enjoys numbers remarkable similar to his predecessors and the hair-fire that consumes the twitter-sphere.

Really? Obama was the target of constant hair-fire by the right wing media going into the 2010 mid-terms that gave rise to the Tea Party.

Not really the same scope, but assuming your point is similar - then what is the relevance? or did you just need to say "Obama did too!"?
Nevertheless, the opening post is not mentioning the media perception (though facts clearly demonstrate that left-wing media is more widespread than right-wing)...it is about the twitter/scoail media hair-fire, which some might consider more indicative of an opinion that may or may not be echoed in the media (for example the media reports about twitter trends, etc.)

honorentheos wrote:
I don't see how you can feel that what is going on with Trump is somehow unique.

Not sure the opening post said anything about "unique" did it?

honorentheos wrote:
Well, other than the nature of the attacks on his don't rise to the level of whether or not he holds a cup while saluting or wears the wrong colored suit for your taste...

"Obama did too!"...yawn.....

honorentheos wrote:
That said, as a general trend the President's party can expect backlash in the midterm following a Presidential election anyway.

True, but irrelevant.

honorentheos wrote:
That said, the GOP has strong tailwinds going into the 2018 midterms. Gerrymandering favors the house races while the make-up of the seats up this term in the Senate are another disadvantage for Democrats.

Yes, the math does not favor Democrats nor does the trend for who usually votes in mid-terms.

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 Post subject: Re: perception is everything?
PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2018 9:26 am 
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subgenius wrote:
honorentheos wrote:
Really? Obama was the target of constant hair-fire by the right wing media going into the 2010 mid-terms that gave rise to the Tea Party.

Not really the same scope, but assuming your point is similar - then what is the relevance?

That hair-fire has long been the norm among the Fox News crowd so your antics are predictably of a class.

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 Post subject: Re: perception is everything?
PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2018 9:32 am 
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subgenius wrote:
notwithstanding your admirable hedging, but the opening post was clear that there is an interesting contrast between how Trump currently enjoys numbers remarkable similar to his predecessors and the hair-fire that consumes the twitter-sphere.


The missing context here is that the numbers cited for Trump are some of his highest ever, not seen since his standard post-election bump, whereas the other presidential numbers cited were around some of the low points of other presidents when they - all of them - were dealing with the effects of poor economic conditions on perceptions of them. Trump's current high water marks make him slightly more unpopular than presidents around the same time falling into or starting to rebound from their low points.

George H.W. Bush, George W. Bush, second terms, and anyone before Jimmy Carter go unmentioned because they don't fit the cherry-picked pattern.

Quote:
So spin all ye want, but #winning is a reality...


Can you walk us through how having approvals that reflect being quite unpopular right now, and on average have been as unpopular as a first term president has ever been, constitutes winning? For instance, they're lower than the cited Obama approvals when Obama's party was heading into a landslide defeat in 2010. Was that #winning too?

Republicans probably won't suffer such a defeat because gerrymandering and voter suppression has insulated them public opinion more than Democrats are, but if we're measuring #winning based on popularity, I'm curious how this works. Well, I know how it works. Trump iz gud. That's how it works. But watching you strain can be entertaining.


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 Post subject: Re: perception is everything?
PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2018 9:35 am 
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canpakes wrote:

Not much winning here. But I applaud your spirit. You get a trophy!

like i said, for you, or the DNC, it may not be a win (such is the way of governance), but i assure you i got more than a trophy.
#whileyouwerenotlooking

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 Post subject: Re: perception is everything?
PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2018 9:47 am 
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subgenius wrote:
canpakes wrote:

Not much winning here. But I applaud your spirit. You get a trophy!

like i said, for you, or the DNC, it may not be a win (such is the way of governance), but i assure you i got more than a trophy.
#whileyouwerenotlooking

Yep, anytime you want to spell out exactly what that is.

But perhaps you’re merely satisfied with being told that you’re ‘winning’. ; )


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 Post subject: Re: perception is everything?
PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2018 11:50 am 
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EAllusion wrote:
Can you walk us through how having approvals that reflect being quite unpopular right now, and on average have been as unpopular as a first term president has ever been, constitutes winning?.

Like i said before, "popularity" is vital to a cult of presidency and does not solely, or exclusively, indicate success with regards to governance....nor is it requisite.
But let me "walk" you over to the some of the #winning list posted here: viewtopic.php?p=1128001#p1128001
The successes listed there were achieved regardless of popularity and they have a far-more reaching impact and influence than the number of re-tweets any distraction du jour receives.

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 Post subject: Re: perception is everything?
PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2018 11:51 am 
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canpakes wrote:
subgenius wrote:
like i said, for you, or the DNC, it may not be a win (such is the way of governance), but i assure you i got more than a trophy.
#whileyouwerenotlooking

Yep, anytime you want to spell out exactly what that is.

But perhaps you’re merely satisfied with being told that you’re ‘winning’. ; )

awkward, but i did spell it out...quite succinctly, even for an abridged version....and i did not have to be told, unlike the DNC faithful, i can think for myself.
viewtopic.php?p=1128001#p1128001

#redwave
#winning
#canpakesBEhatinANDibeRolling

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