It is currently Sun Nov 18, 2018 8:04 pm

All times are UTC - 7 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 420 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 16, 17, 18, 19, 20  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: Trump's War on Children
PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2018 1:48 pm 
God
User avatar

Joined: Tue Oct 24, 2006 8:56 pm
Posts: 5294
Quote:
Adding population does two things: it increases the pool of folks looking for work and it increases the demand for goods and services that, in turn, leads to job creation.

If that were true, immigrants could stay in their own countries and earn the same type of living. We have a limited amount of capital and can absorb a limited number of immigrants at a time without seriously reducing the standard of living for US citizens. Do we have a right to limit the number of immigrants coming into the country or not?

_________________
And when the confederates saw Jackson standing fearless as a stone wall the army of Northern Virginia took courage and drove the federal army off their land.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Trump's War on Children
PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2018 2:33 pm 
God
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 01, 2011 6:50 am
Posts: 10967
Location: Your mother's purse
Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:
Maksutov wrote:
We need borders to remain a sovereign state. But the borders can and should be managed humanely. Both right and left have to come together to make this work. Throwing partisan memes at eachother isn't cutting it. Same with all of the other major problems we have.

How is denying entry of tens millions of impoverished immigrants relevant to our sovereignty by enforcing an invisible line?

- Doc

its relevant in the same way that you can go out to your front lawn and see that there are no squatters pitching tents in hopes of doing the chores at a cheaper price than your kids who don't want to take out the garbage or mow the grass....or clean your pool.

_________________
Seek freedom and become captive of your desires...seek discipline and find your liberty
I can tell if a person is judgmental just by looking at them
what is chaos to the fly is normal to the spider - morticia addams
If you're not upsetting idiots, you might be an idiot. - Ted Nugent


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Trump's War on Children
PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2018 2:40 pm 
God
User avatar

Joined: Fri Oct 05, 2012 5:37 pm
Posts: 7594
Location: On walkabout
ajax18 wrote:
Quote:
Adding population does two things: it increases the pool of folks looking for work and it increases the demand for goods and services that, in turn, leads to job creation.

If that were true, immigrants could stay in their own countries and earn the same type of living. We have a limited amount of capital and can absorb a limited number of immigrants at a time without seriously reducing the standard of living for US citizens. Do we have a right to limit the number of immigrants coming into the country or not?

Of course we have the right to limit immigration. No one is arguing otherwise.

Your response to basic economic facts makes no sense. Wage differentials in different countries are, again, a complete issue involving all kinds of factors.

_________________
​“The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated communist, but people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists.”

― Hannah Arendt, The Origins of Totalitarianism, 1951


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Trump's War on Children
PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2018 2:47 pm 
God
User avatar

Joined: Tue Oct 24, 2006 8:56 pm
Posts: 5294
Quote:
Of course we have the right to limit immigration. No one is arguing otherwise.

Then the asylum laws need to be changed. They're basically stopping us from enforcing the border without incurring a ridicuolous amount of court costs, housing illegal immigrants we put in jail, paying for foster families etc. Enforcing the border would mean none of this would even get started.

I'm fine with immigration that is in the best interest of America and her citizens. It's our country. We're not just citizens of the world.

_________________
And when the confederates saw Jackson standing fearless as a stone wall the army of Northern Virginia took courage and drove the federal army off their land.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Trump's War on Children
PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2018 6:37 pm 
God
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 01, 2011 6:50 am
Posts: 10967
Location: Your mother's purse
ajax18 wrote:
Quote:
Of course we have the right to limit immigration. No one is arguing otherwise.

Then the asylum laws need to be changed. They're basically stopping us from enforcing the border without incurring a ridicuolous amount of court costs, housing illegal immigrants we put in jail, paying for foster families etc. Enforcing the border would mean none of this would even get started.

I'm fine with immigration that is in the best interest of America and her citizens. It's our country. We're not just citizens of the world.

note that currently +80% of asylum claims are proven to be fraudulent, most often after the fact.

_________________
Seek freedom and become captive of your desires...seek discipline and find your liberty
I can tell if a person is judgmental just by looking at them
what is chaos to the fly is normal to the spider - morticia addams
If you're not upsetting idiots, you might be an idiot. - Ted Nugent


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Trump's War on Children
PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2018 7:59 pm 
God
User avatar

Joined: Wed Feb 03, 2010 11:17 pm
Posts: 7947
subgenius wrote:
note that currently +80% of asylum claims are proven to be fraudulent, most often after the fact.

Fraudulent? CFR on that subbie. The percentage is made up, which is bad enough, but claiming that asylum cases are proven "fraudulent" is the sort of language games that might win viewers on Fox but won't hold up under scrutiny.

_________________
The world is always full of the sound of waves..but who knows the heart of the sea, a hundred feet down? Who knows it's depth?
~ Eiji Yoshikawa


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Trump's War on Children
PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2018 8:41 pm 
God
User avatar

Joined: Fri Oct 05, 2012 5:37 pm
Posts: 7594
Location: On walkabout
ajax18 wrote:
Quote:
Of course we have the right to limit immigration. No one is arguing otherwise.

Then the asylum laws need to be changed. They're basically stopping us from enforcing the border without incurring a ridicuolous amount of court costs, housing illegal immigrants we put in jail, paying for foster families etc. Enforcing the border would mean none of this would even get started.

I'm fine with immigration that is in the best interest of America and her citizens. It's our country. We're not just citizens of the world.


We are and have always “enforced the border.” That you want stricter immigration limits does not mean we aren’t enforcing.

The argument is about what is best for America. We disagree on that.

_________________
​“The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated communist, but people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists.”

― Hannah Arendt, The Origins of Totalitarianism, 1951


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Trump's War on Children
PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2018 10:37 pm 
God

Joined: Tue Dec 04, 2007 6:39 am
Posts: 14675
The Trump admin commissioned a study on economic effects of the past 10 years of refugees in America. It found a net 63 billion benefit to the economy. So the Trump admin censored that conclusion and only published the costs:

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/18/us/p ... trump.html

The New York Times was able to obtain the original draft report to reveal this. I mention this because the choices are not, "accept no refugees" or "everyone who is impoverished in the world moves to America immediately." There's an actual, definable flux of refugees coming to America at any given point and we can understand what that impact is in addition to weighing other moral concerns. Research is pretty consistent in showing that on the whole, it's an economic benefit at any level that is realistic to happen. If this really were about costs and economic impact, Ajax, like the Trump admin, wouldn't be so impervious to what the data actually shows.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Trump's War on Children
PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2018 2:08 am 
God
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jun 17, 2012 5:29 pm
Posts: 3851
Location: The Yukon Hotel - 1187 Hunterwasser Los Angeles
Just like to point out that when Trump says to send people who present themselves at the border back to their countries without due process. The courts have generally ruled that people have the right to due process, even when here illegally.

So again, the President is, shall we say, out in front of most established law with respect to due process.

It strikes me more and more that this country is not like Nazi Germany, but like the United States would have been in the 1950's if Joseph McCarthy had taken control of the Republican Party from the Eisenhower wing. The difference was that McCarthy would have been going up against IKE, Supreme Commander of Allied Forces in World War II. In the afterglow of World War II, even the virulence of McCarthy's anti-communism would not have been strong enough to take the sheen off Eisenhower. We didn't have a Democrat or Republican in 2016 with the gravitas of an Eisenhower to go against Trump.

_________________
"Throughout my life, my two greatest assets have been mental stability and being, like, really smart."
- Donald Trump
"The great problem of any civilization is how to rejuvenate itself without rebarbarization."
- Will Durant
"Of what meaning is the world without mind? The question cannot exist."
- Edwin Land


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Trump's War on Children
PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2018 5:33 am 
God

Joined: Tue Dec 04, 2007 6:39 am
Posts: 14675
You can't know a person is here illegally unless you give them due process. Otherwise, you're just declaring that government authorities have the right to deport anyone without the basic protection of them needing to present evidence their allegations are true in a court of law.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Trump's War on Children
PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2018 5:36 am 
Bishop

Joined: Fri Mar 09, 2018 5:45 pm
Posts: 487
EAllusion wrote:
The Trump admin commissioned a study on economic effects of the past 10 years of refugees in America. It found a net 63 billion benefit to the economy. So the Trump admin censored that conclusion and only published the costs:

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/18/us/p ... trump.html

The New York Times was able to obtain the original draft report to reveal this. I mention this because the choices are not, "accept no refugees" or "everyone who is impoverished in the world moves to America immediately." There's an actual, definable flux of refugees coming to America at any given point and we can understand what that impact is in addition to weighing other moral concerns. Research is pretty consistent in showing that on the whole, it's an economic benefit at any level that is realistic to happen. If this really were about costs and economic impact, Ajax, like the Trump admin, wouldn't be so impervious to what the data actually shows.


Excellent point. And the program that was started by Obama was does away with by Trump last year. I posted on this twice in this thread with very little feedback.

Quote:
The Family Case Management Program, which President Donald Trump ended several months after taking office, was meant to keep track of immigrant parents and kids in removal proceedings without having to keep them locked up. It was relatively small ― about 950 families in five locations. But it was hugely successful: More than 99 percent of families in the program showed up for their court dates, and 97 percent participated in required check-ins with their case managers, according to a report from Geo Care, the private prison company that operated the program. And it reportedly cost the government just $36 per family each day, versus $319 per bed per day in a family detention center.


So this isn't about costs, it is about repelling as many asylum seekers as possible. Trump recently said he wanted to do away with judges and due process.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Trump's War on Children
PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2018 5:37 am 
God

Joined: Tue Dec 04, 2007 6:39 am
Posts: 14675
The recently obtained recordings from a detention facility is pretty heartbreaking. The mob boss-like threatening of a kid about going to the media was a nice touch.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Trump's War on Children
PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2018 5:38 am 
Bishop

Joined: Fri Mar 09, 2018 5:45 pm
Posts: 487
subgenius wrote:
note that currently +80% of asylum claims are proven to be fraudulent, most often after the fact.


stupid lie again.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Trump's War on Children
PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2018 6:25 am 
Bishop

Joined: Fri Mar 09, 2018 5:45 pm
Posts: 487
Funny to hear ajax pretend to care about costs to the taxpayer on this subject. Everything Trump does costs much more.

Trump’s Family Detention Policy Will Cost Billions Of Dollars That ICE Doesn’t Have


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Trump's War on Children
PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2018 7:37 am 
God
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 01, 2011 6:50 am
Posts: 10967
Location: Your mother's purse
Hawkeye wrote:
subgenius wrote:
note that currently +80% of asylum claims are proven to be fraudulent, most often after the fact.


stupid lie again.

the only stupid around here is - as usual - you.
just to keep you up to date (take a look in between your community college course work)
https://www.justice.gov/usao-sdny/pr/qu ... ylum-fraud

Those seeking asylum and those who piggy back on the asylum "family" clause:

Expedited Removal occurs for those who illegally attempted to gain asylum by fraud or misrepresentation, or with no entry documents, or by using counterfeit, altered, or otherwise fraudulent or improper documents.
(this occurs at the border and comprises about 35% of removals)

Administrative Reason for Removal occurs for those who attemptedto gain asylum by fraud or misrepresentation, or with no entry documents, or by using counterfeit, altered, or otherwise fraudulent or improper documents.
(this occurs in court and comprises about 36% of removals)

so currently we are at 71%, care to add in the percentage of benefits fraud cases? (see also Fraud Detection and National Security Directorate (FDNS)).
https://www.dhs.gov/publications
https://www.dhs.gov/immigration-statistics
https://www.dhs.gov/immigration-statist ... es-asylees

Oh, and as a follow-up - did you ever get around to proving that whole "special reservation" asylum for cartel assassin targets? (i mean, i get it...that hair-fire takes a lot of your attention and fact research, truth finding, and other such nonsense just isn't on your schedule).

_________________
Seek freedom and become captive of your desires...seek discipline and find your liberty
I can tell if a person is judgmental just by looking at them
what is chaos to the fly is normal to the spider - morticia addams
If you're not upsetting idiots, you might be an idiot. - Ted Nugent


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Trump's War on Children
PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2018 7:41 am 
God
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 01, 2011 6:50 am
Posts: 10967
Location: Your mother's purse
EAllusion wrote:
You can't know a person is here illegally unless you give them due process. Otherwise, you're just declaring that government authorities have the right to deport anyone without the basic protection of them needing to present evidence their allegations are true in a court of law.

The laws governing border agents allow for immediate deportation, based upon several options - one of which is being at the border "illegally"...aka a due process without a court of law....get you an education, government authorities already have that right.

_________________
Seek freedom and become captive of your desires...seek discipline and find your liberty
I can tell if a person is judgmental just by looking at them
what is chaos to the fly is normal to the spider - morticia addams
If you're not upsetting idiots, you might be an idiot. - Ted Nugent


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Trump's War on Children
PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2018 7:41 am 
God
User avatar

Joined: Wed Dec 07, 2011 12:54 am
Posts: 5800
subs, why did your own family come to the US? Would you consider it a valid reason today?


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Trump's War on Children
PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2018 7:47 am 
God
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 01, 2011 6:50 am
Posts: 10967
Location: Your mother's purse
Image

_________________
Seek freedom and become captive of your desires...seek discipline and find your liberty
I can tell if a person is judgmental just by looking at them
what is chaos to the fly is normal to the spider - morticia addams
If you're not upsetting idiots, you might be an idiot. - Ted Nugent


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Trump's War on Children
PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2018 7:50 am 
God
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 01, 2011 6:50 am
Posts: 10967
Location: Your mother's purse
canpakes wrote:
subs, why did your own family come to the US? Would you consider it a valid reason today?

You mean to ask why did my family legally enter the US?

_________________
Seek freedom and become captive of your desires...seek discipline and find your liberty
I can tell if a person is judgmental just by looking at them
what is chaos to the fly is normal to the spider - morticia addams
If you're not upsetting idiots, you might be an idiot. - Ted Nugent


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Trump's War on Children
PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2018 7:55 am 
God
User avatar

Joined: Wed Dec 07, 2011 12:54 am
Posts: 5800
subgenius wrote:
canpakes wrote:
subs, why did your own family come to the US? Would you consider it a valid reason today?

You mean to ask why did my family legally enter the US?

Sure. Explain what that entailed, while you’re at it. But don’t forget the reason why they came in the first place.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Trump's War on Children
PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2018 8:11 am 
God
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 01, 2011 6:50 am
Posts: 10967
Location: Your mother's purse
canpakes wrote:
Sure. Explain what that entailed, while you’re at it. But don’t forget the reason why they came in the first place.

My maternal family immigrated here via my mother, who came to the States as an unaccompanied minor due to family tragedy that required her Aunt to take custody of her. Her immigration being from a US Commonwealth only required medical screening for admission and she passed. However, prior to that my maternal family was indigenous to the island from which she was born...origin prior unknown, except according to DNA science there was a migration from sub-sahara around 10,000 years ago (no border documents found).

My paternal family was part of the Scotch/Irish immigration wave of 1600s where high cost of living and persecution were the main reasons for migrating - no specific record exists for my particular ancestor, so "spunky spirit" could have easily been the cause....as would indentured servitude or deportation of criminals.

In either case I am quite confident that my arriving ancestors ultimately had the goal of exploiting their privilege.

_________________
Seek freedom and become captive of your desires...seek discipline and find your liberty
I can tell if a person is judgmental just by looking at them
what is chaos to the fly is normal to the spider - morticia addams
If you're not upsetting idiots, you might be an idiot. - Ted Nugent


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 420 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 16, 17, 18, 19, 20  Next

All times are UTC - 7 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: ajax18, Doctor CamNC4Me and 16 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Jump to:  
Revival Theme By Brandon Designs By B.Design-Studio © 2007-2008 Brandon
Revival Theme Based off SubLite By Echo © 2007-2008 Echo
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group