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 Post subject: Re: Trump's War on Children
PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2018 10:26 am 
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Now that migrant families will be reunited on the border, the next alleged crime against humanity will be that those families are being detained at all.


That's what I've been saying all along.

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 Post subject: Re: Trump's War on Children
PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2018 11:07 am 
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Themis wrote:
ajax18 wrote:
Build the wall! Then you won't have to pay for lawyers, judges, jails, or separate children from parents. The wall certainly worked for Israel.

So why then does Israel not have walls on much of it's borders?

Well, I guess jersey barriers, triple fences, and various other forms of physical obstacles can't be called walls...

- Doc


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 Post subject: Re: Trump's War on Children
PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2018 11:09 am 
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Maksutov wrote:
We need borders to remain a sovereign state. But the borders can and should be managed humanely. Both right and left have to come together to make this work. Throwing partisan memes at eachother isn't cutting it. Same with all of the other major problems we have.

How is denying entry of tens millions of impoverished immigrants relevant to our sovereignty by enforcing an invisible line?

- Doc


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 Post subject: Re: Trump's War on Children
PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2018 11:12 am 
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Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:
Well, I guess jersey barriers, triple fences, and various other forms of physical obstacles can't be called walls...

- Doc


So why do they not have big walls in those areas?

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 Post subject: Re: Trump's War on Children
PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2018 11:28 am 
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Maksutov wrote:
We need borders to remain a sovereign state. But the borders can and should be managed humanely. Both right and left have to come together to make this work. Throwing partisan memes at eachother isn't cutting it. Same with all of the other major problems we have.


Oh come on Maksutov. There are people on this board you would wake up screaming in the night if they couldn't manage to get their daily ration of auto-pilot epithet throwing, plus straw-man construction and demolition.

It would all just boil up inside them until they burst.

Have a little humanity ...

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Maksutov:
That's the problem with this supernatural stuff, it doesn't really solve anything. It's a placeholder for ignorance.


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 Post subject: Re: Trump's War on Children
PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2018 11:41 am 
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Chap wrote:
Maksutov wrote:
We need borders to remain a sovereign state. But the borders can and should be managed humanely. Both right and left have to come together to make this work. Throwing partisan memes at eachother isn't cutting it. Same with all of the other major problems we have.

Oh come on Maksutov. There are people on this board you would wake up screaming in the night if they couldn't manage to get their daily ration of auto-pilot epithet throwing, plus straw-man construction and demolition.

It would all just boil up inside them until they burst.

Have a little humanity ...

Are you talking about the posters who call others "dick asses" and "dip ____"?

- Doc


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 Post subject: Re: Trump's War on Children
PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2018 11:47 am 
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Themis wrote:
Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:
Well, I guess jersey barriers, triple fences, and various other forms of physical obstacles can't be called walls...

- Doc

So why do they not have big walls in those areas?

Did you try to research this at all? Because I did and apparently there is a wall on the West Bank.

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 Post subject: Re: Trump's War on Children
PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2018 11:48 am 
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Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:
Maksutov wrote:
We need borders to remain a sovereign state. But the borders can and should be managed humanely. Both right and left have to come together to make this work. Throwing partisan memes at eachother isn't cutting it. Same with all of the other major problems we have.

How is denying entry of tens millions of impoverished immigrants relevant to our sovereignty by enforcing an invisible line?

- Doc

It's about administration and legal authorities. Not very exciting stuff but indispensable in the modern age. All of our states in the US maintain borders. They have slightly different laws and failure to distinguish this can result in a horrendous clusterf. There are also security issues, but a lot of that can be managed through technology rather than boots with guns.

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 Post subject: Re: Trump's War on Children
PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2018 11:52 am 
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ajax18 wrote:
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Before the zero tolerance policy, less than 10% of illegal entrants were criminally prosecuted. Why not? Because there is a cheap, expedited process to send them back. Zero tolerance means a huge increase in the need for prosecutors and judges, not to mention the cost of keeping all those folks in prison. Why not continue to use the expedited removal process and devote resources to speeding up the process for hearing asylum claims?

I'm still perpelexed as to why we have to permit illegal immigrants a foothold in the country with judges, jails, and legal arguments. Build the wall! Then you won't have to pay for lawyers, judges, jails, or separate children from parents. The wall certainly worked for Israel.

I've said before that I support building a wall. That said, we (the collective we) were promised that Mexico would pay for it.

Not happening.

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 Post subject: Re: Trump's War on Children
PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2018 11:52 am 
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On the effectiveness of the West Bank Wall: https://www.google.com/amp/www.latimes. ... utType=amp

In contrast with the Egyptian border fence. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.timeso ... order/amp/

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 Post subject: Re: Trump's War on Children
PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2018 11:54 am 
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Jersey Girl wrote:
Did you try to research this at all? Because I did and apparently there is a wall on the West Bank.

I didn't say they didn't have any walls. Even the border with Mexico has many sections with big walls. The question has to do with why they choose to build big walls in some areas but not in other areas, and why they may not build any walls or fences in some areas. Ajax thinks that a big expensive wall all the way across the Mexican border would be effective in stopping most illegal immigration. He doesn't understand there is going to many factors that may make many or most areas not effective or wise to have walls or even fencing. He is very single minded based mostly on his racist feelings/ideologies.

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 Post subject: Re: Trump's War on Children
PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2018 11:54 am 
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It's about administration and legal authorities. Not very exciting stuff but indispensable in the modern age. All of our states in the US maintain borders. They have slightly different laws and failure to distinguish this can result in a horrendous clusterf. There are also security issues, but a lot of that can be managed through technology rather than boots with guns.

Wait. Enforcing our national sovereignty means picking and choosing who we let in. How do you propose to do that with bureaucracy and technology n' stuff?

- Doc


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 Post subject: Re: Trump's War on Children
PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2018 12:04 pm 
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... It is clear that the outrage being hurled at President Trump has almost nothing to do with concern for the children. It is merely the latest tactic by those who desire an open southern border, to the point that the United States can no longer be considered a nation of laws and borders.

I can’t agree with The Hill in this. This rhetoric is exactly the kind of ‘either-or’ crap that has virtually ruined the American political system. It is completely possible - and logical - to want to maintain a strong border and ‘asylum’ policy and implement rigorous criteria for applicants, while simultaneously treating folks who arrive at the border sensibly and humanely.


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 Post subject: Re: Trump's War on Children
PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2018 12:11 pm 
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Themis wrote:
Jersey Girl wrote:

Did you try to research this at all? Because I did and apparently there is a wall on the West Bank.


I didn't say they didn't have any walls. Even the border with Mexico has many sections with big walls. The question has to do with why they choose to build big walls in some areas but not in other areas, and why they may not build any walls or fences in some areas. Ajax thinks that a big expensive wall all the way across the Mexican border would be effective in stopping most illegal immigration. He doesn't understand there is going to many factors that may make many or most areas not effective or wise to have walls or even fencing. He is very single minded based mostly on his racist feelings/ideologies.


I don't think you made yourself clear.

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 Post subject: Re: Trump's War on Children
PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2018 12:15 pm 
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canpakes wrote:
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... It is clear that the outrage being hurled at President Trump has almost nothing to do with concern for the children. It is merely the latest tactic by those who desire an open southern border, to the point that the United States can no longer be considered a nation of laws and borders.

I can’t agree with The Hill in this. This rhetoric is exactly the kind of ‘either-or’ crap that has virtually ruined the American political system. It is completely possible - and logical - to want to maintain a strong border and ‘asylum’ policy and implement rigorous criteria for applicants, while simultaneously treating folks who arrive at the border sensibly and humanely.


This is not the opinion of the Hill. See their disclaimer. It’s written by a guy who works for the legal arm of FAIR, an anti-immigrant group.

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― Hannah Arendt, The Origins of Totalitarianism, 1951


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 Post subject: Re: Trump's War on Children
PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2018 12:16 pm 
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Jersey Girl wrote:
I don't think you made yourself clear.

I started by asking some questions to see if Ajax was interested in real discussion about why we should or shouldn't have a wall all the way across the Mexican border. If real discussion can take place my points would become clearer, but Cam is not interested atm with real discussion or understanding people points/arguments. Just insulting most everyone who will try to engage with him, and some who haven't.

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 Post subject: Re: Trump's War on Children
PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2018 12:21 pm 
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Res Ipsa wrote:
... FAIR, an anti-immigrant group.

That's patently false. I would've thought you, of all people, to be a little more oriented toward the truth. Shame.

- Doc


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 Post subject: Re: Trump's War on Children
PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2018 12:40 pm 
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Res Ipsa wrote:
This is not the opinion of the Hill. See their disclaimer. It’s written by a guy who works for the legal arm of FAIR, an anti-immigrant group.


Yeah I figured as much.


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 Post subject: Re: Trump's War on Children
PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2018 12:41 pm 
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Hawkeye wrote:
Res Ipsa wrote:
This is not the opinion of the Hill. See their disclaimer. It’s written by a guy who works for the legal arm of FAIR, an anti-immigrant group.


Yeah I figured as much.


Of course you do.

- Doc


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 Post subject: Re: Trump's War on Children
PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2018 12:49 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: Trump's War on Children
PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2018 12:51 pm 
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Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:

Of course you do.

- Doc


And I was justified, right?


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