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 Post subject: Trump's War on Children
PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2018 11:03 am 
Bishop

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For the first time in US history, children are being detained and then handed over to human traffickers all because their parents sought asylum. The Trump administration says this is biblical, and they're doing it as a deterrent to keep asylum seekers away.

Dozens of children are dying in our schools while the President* keeps the status quo, lies about what he will do, and then when the media's focus veers off, he goes back to sucking at the NRA's teet.

I don't know the exact figure, but I suspect more than a thousand children were among the dead after Puerto Rico was hit by natural disaster. Many of them were probably dead or in the process of dying as the President* was on the island acting like he was at a campaign rally throwing around rolls of paper towels.

Is this really what we've become as a nation?


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 Post subject: Re: Trump's War on Children
PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2018 12:01 pm 
God
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your hair fires are nicely complimented by your recent habit of flame posting...but both are ignited by your blazing hot idiocy, while simultaneously quenching all of our thirsts for for us not being the biggest moron in the room.
Elián González wants a word with ya,
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 Post subject: Re: Trump's War on Children
PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2018 12:21 pm 
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Aw, c’mon Hawkeye. The administration is only putting children in prison camps — not giving them to traffickers. Geez!

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 Post subject: Re: Trump's War on Children
PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2018 1:16 pm 
Bishop

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Elián González has far more in common with Sean Goldman than any of the Children Trump has waged a war upon. But you're an idiot, so how would you know?

Quote:
Aw, c’mon Hawkeye. The administration is only putting children in prison camps — not giving them to traffickers. Geez!


Yeah, I must have just made that up huh?

Quote:
The number of migrant children held in U.S. government custody without their parents has surged 21 percent in the past month, according to the latest figures, an increase driven by the Trump administration’s “zero tolerance” crackdown on families who cross the border illegally. Although the government has not disclosed how many children have been separated from their parents as a result of the new measures, the Department of Health and Human Services said Tuesday that it had 10,773 migrant children in its custody, up from 8,886 on April 29.


The U.S. lost track of 1,475 immigrant children last year

Quote:
Health and Human Services officials have argued it is not the department’s legal responsibility to find those children after they are released from the care of the Office of Refugee Resettlement, which falls under HHS‘s Administration for Children and Families. And some have pointed out that adult sponsors are sometimes relatives who already were living in the United States and who intentionally may not be responding to contact attempts by HHS.

However, neither of those arguments has done much to quell outrage surrounding the testimony by Wagner, a principal deputy at HHS who oversees the Administration for Children and Families.

Sen. Rob Portman (R-Ohio), chairman of the Senate subcommittee, has repeatedly argued that it was a matter of humanity, not simply legal responsibility, citing a case in which federal officials had turned over eight immigrant children to human traffickers.

“These kids, regardless of their immigration status, deserve to be treated properly, not abused or trafficked,” Portman said in the subcommittee. “This is all about accountability.”

Portman reiterated his stance in an April 24 “Frontline” special called “Trafficked in America,” which documented the plight of the eight children who were forced to work on an egg farm in Ohio.


Honduran man kills himself after family torn away from him by border patrol.

Woman had baby taken while breastfeeding, never to see again

To add insult to injury, the GOP says this is all justified because the Bible says it is. What in the ever living f--k?

Using a parent's love against them by threatening their children is such a deplorable tactic that hasn't been used in the developed world anywhere this century. It only happens in the movies and is tyrannical despots behind closed doors. Oh, and now it happens out in the open in the United States. All because we elected a tyrant who thinks the citizens need to "stand and pay attention" when he speaks, same as they do in North Korea. All because Republicans are such scared little snowflakes who have become terrified of their own shadow and turned this into their new boogeyman.

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 Post subject: Re: Trump's War on Children
PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2018 1:53 pm 
God
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subgenius wrote:
Elián González wants a word with ya

Lol. One child, from almost two decades ago, and of a completely different situation.

Fox sure isn’t providing you with any quality talking points, these days.


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 Post subject: Re: Trump's War on Children
PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2018 1:56 pm 
God
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Hold on Hawkeye, this was your claim.

Quote:
For the first time in US history, children are being detained and then handed over to human traffickers all because their parents sought asylum.


The only example you give of trafficking is the Ohio egg farm. When did the children come to the U.S? 2012. Who was President in 2012? https://www.cleveland.com/metro/index.s ... human.html

How did those boys get into the hands of traffickers? By doing exactly what you want the Trump administration to do -- release them to their sponsors. Except that, in this case, the sponsors were in cahoots with the traffickers. https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/arti ... n-america/

And did you actually read the WP story you linked? Here's the story of the "lost" children:

Quote:
On Monday night, HHS Deputy Secretary Eric Hargan said in a statement that “the assertion that unaccompanied alien children (UAC) are ‘lost’ is completely false. This is a classic example of the adage ‘No good deed goes unpunished.’”

Hargan’s statement said that ORR “began voluntarily making calls in 2016 as a 30-day follow-up on the release of UAC to make sure that UAC and their sponsors did not require additional services. This additional step, which is not required and was not done previously, is now being used to confuse and spread misinformation.

"These children are not ‘lost’; their sponsors — who are usually parents or family members and in all cases have been vetted for criminality and ability to provide for them — simply did not respond or could not be reached when this voluntary call was made. While there are many possible reasons for this, in many cases sponsors cannot be reached because they themselves are illegal aliens and do not want to be reached by federal authorities.

"This is the core of this issue: In many cases, HHS has been put in the position of placing illegal aliens with the individuals who helped arrange for them to enter the country illegally. This makes the immediate crisis worse and creates a perverse incentive for further violation of federal immigration law."


So, HHS "lost" children that it wasn't responsible for keeping track of. And "lost" means the parents or other sponsors didn't answer their phone. And none of these are children who were separated from asylum seeking parents. That's a recent development, and those kids are being held in gulags, err prison camps, err internment camps, err (checks newspeak dictionary)....

Can you provide even a single example of a child who was separated from asylum-speaking parents and placed with a human trafficker? Just one?

With so many fish jammed into a barrel, why do you insist on aiming at your foot?

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 Post subject: Re: Trump's War on Children
PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2018 2:00 pm 
God

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canpakes wrote:
subgenius wrote:
Elián González wants a word with ya

Lol. One child, from almost two decades ago, and of a completely different situation.

Fox sure isn’t providing you with any quality talking points, these days.

Acknowledging that subgenius is an ignorant, racist bigot and/or incorrigible troll is no insult. It is merely an easily demonstratible fact so incontroveritble that even God himself cannot deny it without revealing himself to be a liar or fool or both!

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 Post subject: Re: Trump's War on Children
PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2018 2:48 pm 
God
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canpakes wrote:
subgenius wrote:
Elián González wants a word with ya

Lol. One child, from almost two decades ago, and of a completely different situation.

Fox sure isn’t providing you with any quality talking points, these days.

I think the implication of the anecdote is that the opening post anecdotes are equally narrow and not indicative of some nefarious government sponsored child trafficking (I smell the hair fire).
Nevertheless, it speaks to the larger point that the OPoster believes this is a unique situation and circumstance that only began in January of 2017...and that only an idiot would consider the notion of government sponsored human trafficking as being a remotely valid modus operandi in these cases.

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 Post subject: Re: Trump's War on Children
PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2018 2:50 pm 
God
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Res Ipsa wrote:
Hold on Hawkeye, this was your claim.

Quote:
For the first time in US history, children are being detained and then handed over to human traffickers all because their parents sought asylum.


The only example you give of trafficking is the Ohio egg farm. When did the children come to the U.S? 2012. Who was President in 2012? https://www.cleveland.com/metro/index.s ... human.html

How did those boys get into the hands of traffickers? By doing exactly what you want the Trump administration to do -- release them to their sponsors. Except that, in this case, the sponsors were in cahoots with the traffickers. https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/arti ... n-america/

And did you actually read the WP story you linked? Here's the story of the "lost" children:

Quote:
On Monday night, HHS Deputy Secretary Eric Hargan said in a statement that “the assertion that unaccompanied alien children (UAC) are ‘lost’ is completely false. This is a classic example of the adage ‘No good deed goes unpunished.’”

Hargan’s statement said that ORR “began voluntarily making calls in 2016 as a 30-day follow-up on the release of UAC to make sure that UAC and their sponsors did not require additional services. This additional step, which is not required and was not done previously, is now being used to confuse and spread misinformation.

"These children are not ‘lost’; their sponsors — who are usually parents or family members and in all cases have been vetted for criminality and ability to provide for them — simply did not respond or could not be reached when this voluntary call was made. While there are many possible reasons for this, in many cases sponsors cannot be reached because they themselves are illegal aliens and do not want to be reached by federal authorities.

"This is the core of this issue: In many cases, HHS has been put in the position of placing illegal aliens with the individuals who helped arrange for them to enter the country illegally. This makes the immediate crisis worse and creates a perverse incentive for further violation of federal immigration law."


So, HHS "lost" children that it wasn't responsible for keeping track of. And "lost" means the parents or other sponsors didn't answer their phone. And none of these are children who were separated from asylum seeking parents. That's a recent development, and those kids are being held in gulags, err prison camps, err internment camps, err (checks newspeak dictionary)....

Can you provide even a single example of a child who was separated from asylum-speaking parents and placed with a human trafficker? Just one?

With so many fish jammed into a barrel, why do you insist on aiming at your foot?

please don't distract Hawkeye from pouring lighter fluid on his curly locks, it's difficult for him to bother with facts....he's firing on one cylinder, ya know.

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If you're not upsetting idiots, you might be an idiot. - Ted Nugent


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 Post subject: Re: Trump's War on Children
PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2018 2:58 pm 
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HFC. I should really jump in here.

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 Post subject: Re: Trump's War on Children
PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2018 3:00 pm 
God
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Jersey Girl wrote:
HFC. I should really jump in here.


Yeah, been hoping you would.

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 Post subject: Re: Trump's War on Children
PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2018 3:02 pm 
God
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subgenius wrote:

please don't distract Hawkeye from pouring lighter fluid on his curly locks, it's difficult for him to bother with facts....he's firing on one cylinder, ya know.


The actual facts are hideous enough. You want to address the child gulag?

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 Post subject: Re: Trump's War on Children
PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2018 3:08 pm 
God
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subgenius wrote:
please don't distract Hawkeye from pouring lighter fluid on his curly locks, it's difficult for him to bother with facts....he's firing on one cylinder, ya know.


I can count on the finger of, well, one finger how many times I've ever agreed with you on this board. This is now the second time.

I thought I should make a note of that. For the record.

:lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Trump's War on Children
PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2018 3:08 pm 
Bishop

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The case of the eight children is just the only one we know about. At the time experts were on shows saying it would take a special kind of naïveté to think this wasn't more prevalent. But when the government is losing this many kids and has no idea of their whereabouts, it isn't really an illicit assumption that more than 8 have been taken by human traffickers. And no, I don't believe the children should be handed over to sponsors, I believe they need to stay with their parents. Especially when they're breast-feeding. Can we name a single instance when a nursing baby was taken from its mother or a father killed himself because his kids were taken from him, prior to Trump?


Last edited by Hawkeye on Fri Jun 15, 2018 3:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Trump's War on Children
PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2018 3:09 pm 
God
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Res Ipsa wrote:
Jersey Girl wrote:
HFC. I should really jump in here.


Yeah, been hoping you would.


Nah. I'm waiting for Hawkeye to come up with the TX Walmart with blackened windows.

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 Post subject: Re: Trump's War on Children
PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2018 3:09 pm 
Bishop

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Jersey Girl wrote:
subgenius wrote:
please don't distract Hawkeye from pouring lighter fluid on his curly locks, it's difficult for him to bother with facts....he's firing on one cylinder, ya know.


I can count on the finger of, well, one finger how many times I've ever agreed with you on this board. This is now the second time.

I thought I should make a note of that. For the record.

:lol:



Glad this is such a humorous subject for you. To me it is depressing as all get out.


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 Post subject: Re: Trump's War on Children
PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2018 3:10 pm 
God
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Hawkeye wrote:
Glad this is such a humorous subject for you. To me it is depressing as all get out.


I didn't comment on the subject.

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 Post subject: Re: Trump's War on Children
PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2018 3:16 pm 
Bishop

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Trump's War on Children is hardly confined to his immigration policies and his refusal to make schools safer.

Quote:
The president’s 2018 budget:

Slashes $610 billion over 10 years from Medicaid, which nearly 37 million children rely on for a healthy start in life and which pays for nearly half of all births and ensures coverage for 40 percent of our children with special health care needs. The budget also assumes passage of the more than $800 billion additional cuts in Medicaid included in the American Health Care Act for a total Medicaid massacre of more than $1.4 trillion over 10 years.

Rips $5.7 billion from CHIP (Children’s Health Insurance Program), which covers nearly 9 million children in working families ineligible for Medicaid. The proposed cap on CHIP funding for families at 250 percent of the poverty level threatens coverage for millions of children in the 24 states and the District of Columbia that have chosen to extend coverage to children in families with slightly higher incomes.

Snatches food out of the mouths and stomachs of hungry children by slicing $193 billion over 10 years from the Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program (SNAP), which some still call food stamps. SNAP feeds nearly 46 million people including nearly 20 million children. This cut is an unprecedented 25 percent reduction in a core safety net program that in 2014 lifted 4.7 million people, including 2.1 million children, out of poverty. For the 4.9 million households, 1.3 million with children, with no cash income who rely only on SNAP to keep the wolves of hunger from their doors, these cuts would be a catastrophic assault.

Chops $22 billion over 10 years from TANF (Temporary Assistance for Needy Families Program) including $6 billion that eliminates the TANF Contingency Fund which helps support some of our neediest families.

Slashes programs to assist families with housing and end homelessness by $7.4 billion, a 15 percent cut for 2018 including $2.3 billion from Housing Choice Vouchers, which would leave more than 250,000 low income households without them; $1.8 billion — nearly 29 percent — from public housing already in desperate need of repair and expansion; and $133 million — 5.6 percent — from homeless assistance grants.

Whacks $72 billion over 10 years from the Supplemental Security Income Program (SSI), which more than 8 million children and adults with the most severe disabilities depend on to keep going. Despite the President’s promise not to cut Social Security, his budget cuts $48 billion from Social Security Disability Insurance which assists, among others, grandparents and other relatives raising children because their parents cannot care for them.

Cuts $40 billion over 10 years from the Child Tax Credit (CTC) and Earned Income Tax Credit (EITC) by barring tax-paying undocumented immigrant workers, many with American citizen children, from benefiting from the Child Tax Credit unless they have a Social Security number, and making it harder for them to benefit from the Earned Income Tax Credit created to reward hard work and help parents support their children.

Slashes job training programs by $1.1 billion, or 40 percent, over 10 years for youths, adults and dislocated workers. It denigrates the concept of public service jobs by eliminating the Corporation for National and Community Service, and with it AmeriCorps, Vista and Senior Corps.

Cuts federal education funding $9.2 billion in 2018 alone at a time when a majority of children in all racial and economic groups cannot read or compute at grade level. It slashes $143 billion over 10 years from student loans by eliminating the loan program that encourages graduates to take public service jobs and restricts other programs that subsidize college education for first generation college students and others from low income families. And it proposes to add $1 billion in new funding for the Title I program for disadvantaged students, which has historically supplemented resources for students in schools in areas of concentrated poverty, but for the wrong reason. It proposes to fund a new school choice initiative to let children draw Title I funds away from schools in the neediest areas and take them to schools in higher income areas.

Shears $54 billion in 2018 ($1.6 trillion over 10 years) in non-defense discretionary programs which include a broad range of health, early childhood, education, child welfare and juvenile justice programs as well as environmental protection, foreign assistance, medical and scientific research and other federal government programs. The Trump budget would reduce spending for these important programs 2 percent a year for the next 10 years.

Zeroes out funding for the Legal Services Corporation to deny the poor their only option to defend themselves against injustice.

Eliminates core programs that offer extra assistance to low income children, families and communities including the Social Service Block Grant ($1.4 billion in 2018 alone, $16.3 billion over 10 years); the Low Income Home Energy Assistance Program to ward off heat in the summer and cold in winter months ($3.4 billion); the Department of Housing and Urban Development’s HOME, Community Development Block Grant, Indian Community Development Block Grant, and Choice Neighborhood programs ($4.1 billion), and the National Housing Trust Fund which provides funds to states and local communities to develop affordable rental housing; the Community Services Block Grant (CSBG) programs that include CSBG ($723.6 million), Community Economic Development program ($29. 8 million) and Rural Community Facilities ($6.5 million).

Axes the 21st Century Community Learning Program that offers programs to curb summer learning loss and keep children safe and engaged through after school programs for 1.6 million children; the Preschool Development Grants which went to 18 states to improve and expand access to high-quality preschool for children in high-needs communities; and the Child Care Access Means Parents in School program for parents enrolled in college to assist in child care costs.


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 Post subject: Re: Trump's War on Children
PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2018 3:26 pm 
God
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Hawkeye wrote:
The case of the eight children is just the only one we know about. At the time experts were on shows saying it would take a special kind of naïveté to think this wasn't more prevalent. But when the government is losing this many kids and has no idea of their whereabouts, it isn't really an illicit assumption that more than 8 have been taken by human traffickers. And no, I don't believe the children should be handed over to sponsors, I believe they need to stay with their parents. Especially when they're breast-feeding. Can we name a single instance when a nursing baby was taken from its mother or a father killed himself because his kids were taken from him, prior to Trump?


I can only take a look at evidence you provide. Tell me this: did the egg farm kids show up at the border with their parents, forcibly separated from their parents, and then given to traffickers? Is that what happened?

When someone shows up at the border with a child, how do you determine whether the individual is actually a parent? And what should you do with them while you try to figure it out? How do you guarantee with 100% surety that the person claiming to be a parent or other relative isn't part of a trafficking scheme?

Yep, the forced separation of children from asylum-seeking parents is horrible. So why bury it behind a pile of nonsense?

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 Post subject: Re: Trump's War on Children
PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2018 3:54 pm 
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More background on the egg farm. This was an organized smuggling ring, where parents paid the smugglers thousands of dollars and gave them deeds to their family farms to send their children to America. Most of them showed up in a wave of unaccompanied minors crossing the border. Some weren't caught, and went straight to the egg farm. Some were caught. Now, to reunite them with their parents, the government could have sent them back to the hellhole where they came from. When you say you would keep kids with their parents rather than give them to sponsors, is that what you meant? What happened in four cases is that the smugglers hired someone to pose as a family friend offering to sponsor the kids. How do you prove someone is not a family friend of an unaccompanied minor's family, especially if the minor is a willing part of the scheme? So, what's your call Hawkeye? Send 'em back to their parents? Let 'em in?

Keep in mind that this literally has nothing to do with forcibly separating children from their asylum-seeking parents.

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 Post subject: Re: Trump's War on Children
PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2018 3:55 pm 
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Okay Hawkeye. Let me get up some questions here in the hopes of facilitating a discussion. Keep in mind as you read and respond that I am not commenting in support of the administration. I am posing questions as a child advocate and hoping that I will raise issues that haven't been yet considered on this thread.

That said...

1. Given the fact that Jeff Sessions announced on May 7th of this year, that all those who crossed the border illegally (without appropriate documentation) accompanied by minor children, would be separated from the children, do you agree or disagree that when adults chose to cross the border without documentation and accompanied by minor children, effectively chose separation for those children?

2. When adults crossing the border with minor children without proof of their relationship to the child(ren), is it your position that the children should remain with the adults and where do you contend they should be housed as families?

3. Is it your preference that children (undocumented relationships again) be housed and detained in adult detention shelters where they are exposed to adult conversations and behaviors 24/7, and perhaps unhealthy living conditions (think disease) with no services intended to meet their needs (possible exception of food/nutrition/bathroom) while the government goes through the process of screening both adults and children?

4. Do you believe that at least some adults (undocumented) who cross the border accompanied by minor children are not actually related to the children and could be using them as cover for less than stellar purposes? If so, how would suggest that the government determine that and where would you prefer the children to be housed and accommodated during that process?

Pick one or all of those and let's go. And anyone else who has something to contribute of course.

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