US Citizens Detained for Speaking Spanish

The Off-Topic forum for anything non-LDS related, such as sports or politics. Rated PG through PG-13.
_subgenius
_Emeritus
Posts: 13326
Joined: Thu Sep 01, 2011 12:50 pm

Re: US Citizens Detained for Speaking Spanish

Post by _subgenius »

"police state" - geez, enough of the hyperbole and hair-fire. How can you honestly post such inflammatory stories? are you really this ignorant of your own rights and the law - and common sense?

“Ma’am, the reason I asked you for your ID is because I came in here, and I saw that you guys are speaking Spanish, which is very unheard of up here,” the agent can be heard saying in the video.

Suda asks whether they are being racially profiled; the agent says no.

“It has nothing to do with that,” the agent tells her. “It’s the fact that it has to do with you guys speaking Spanish in the store, in a state where it’s predominantly English-speaking.”


perhaps I missed the part where you aren't even aware of the ACLU - does the ring in your nose ever hurt?

https://www.aclu.org/other/constitution ... order-zone


But then again, maybe I missed the part in the article where this person(s) understood their rights and simply asked "am i being detained or am i free to go?".....but I am interrupting, you were explaining police state and how this event violated some imaginary right?
Seek freedom and become captive of your desires...seek discipline and find your liberty
I can tell if a person is judgmental just by looking at them
what is chaos to the fly is normal to the spider - morticia addams
If you're not upsetting idiots, you might be an idiot. - Ted Nugent
_Hawkeye
_Emeritus
Posts: 487
Joined: Fri Mar 09, 2018 11:45 pm

Re: US Citizens Detained for Speaking Spanish

Post by _Hawkeye »

So basically your only response is to accept the agent's BS excuse, even though it doesn't change the fact that American citizens were detained for doing absolutely nothing wrong. A buddy of mine on Facebook shared this story because he lives in Montana, and this is what he had to say:

The agent is, of course, full of crap. MT has a large population of Spanish speaking people, particularly this time of year. The vast majority of those are citizens or legally employed. Groups of Caballeros travel to the NW to compete in the all American tradition of abuse known as rodeo. I don't recall ever hearing any of them speaking English amongst themselves. They are ranch managers, equipment operators, restaurant owners, guides, artists, you name it. I speak passible Latin, certainly well enough to befuddle this nitwit. Do you think he would ask for my papers to see if I'm a time traveler who needs deported back to the 10th Century? What about German or French? I doubt his curiosity was piqued by knowledge of the woeful number of polylingual Americans. White nationalist America wants brown heads on pikes. They want to see men in uniform validating their racism by removing those they consider undesirables. That's how they view the function of law enforcement. That's how 45* views it. He made that abundantly clear with his absurd "I hereby demand" Tweet. I still cannot believe that I find myself commenting on ridiculous Decrees by Twitter from a sitting President. I think I, among many others, have a very strong case for political asylum.


The 2010 census said the Hispanic population was 3% and currently it is closer to 10%. But even if what the agent said is true, and Hispanics represent only a fraction of 1%, how does this in any way change the fact that they were detained as citizens in their own country for doing absolutely nothing wrong? It doesn't. But you're OK with it because, "but Obama"?

As far as your link goes, you obviously didn't read or understand it. From the first sentence:

Hiibel v. Sixth Judicial District Court of Nevada, 542 U.S. 177 (2004), is a United States Supreme Court case in which the Court held that statutes requiring suspects to disclose their names during police investigations did not violate the Fourth Amendment if the statute first required reasonable and articulable suspicion of criminal involvement.


There was no investigation of a crime and there was no reasonable suspicion of a crime. And giving a cop your name isn't the same as being forced to provide documents proving citizenship on the fly. Kinda like people having to prove they're not Jews in Nazi Germany.

#MAGA

If these were the infringed rights of white Christians you'd be having conniption fits.
_Hawkeye
_Emeritus
Posts: 487
Joined: Fri Mar 09, 2018 11:45 pm

Re: US Citizens Detained for Speaking Spanish

Post by _Hawkeye »

I stopped you not because you're brown and look foreign, but because you're speaking Spanish when English is the "predominant language in Montana." English is the predominant language in EVERY state d__a__, and had the couple been blonde with blue eyes speaking a different language there isn't a chance in hell he detains them. The fact that they were able to respond to him in perfect English should have been enough to ease his paranoid suspicions that the Mexicans were somehow crossing the Canadian border!
_subgenius
_Emeritus
Posts: 13326
Joined: Thu Sep 01, 2011 12:50 pm

Re: US Citizens Detained for Speaking Spanish

Post by _subgenius »

Hawkeye wrote:So basically your only response is to accept the agent's BS excuse,

The facts are what they are and no reasonable non-hair-fire person would assume that the article's quote is masking some other motive...if you have other evidence then please smoke it out.

Hawkeye wrote: even though it doesn't change the fact that American citizens were detained for doing absolutely nothing wrong.

again, your ignorance of the law is astounding. Even the border agent did not accuse any "wrongdoing"...but he was obeying the laws, laws even recognized by, and the result of, the ACLU...try getting that education, ya know?

Hawkeye wrote: A buddy of mine on Facebook shared this story because he lives in Montana, and this is what he had to say:

Your appeal to authority is laughable and likely an exaggeration (or falsehood)...but i did giggle at your "Facebook" citation, maybe "your buddy" is actually "your comrade"?

Hawkeye wrote:
Hiibel v. Sixth Judicial District Court of Nevada, 542 U.S. 177 (2004), is a United States Supreme Court case in which the Court held that statutes requiring suspects to disclose their names during police investigations did not violate the Fourth Amendment if the statute first required reasonable and articulable suspicion of criminal involvement.

read the 2nd link ya moron....even the ACLU is embarrassed for you.

Hawkeye wrote: There was no investigation of a crime and there was no reasonable suspicion of a crime. And giving a cop your name isn't the same as being forced to provide documents proving citizenship on the fly. Kinda like people having to prove they're not Jews in Nazi Germany.

there it is...Godwin's Law complete with hyperbole of the facts.

Hawkeye wrote: If these were the infringed rights of white Christians you'd be having conniption fits.

Nope, because no one's rights were infringed.

Say Привет to you 'friend' in Montanna.
Seek freedom and become captive of your desires...seek discipline and find your liberty
I can tell if a person is judgmental just by looking at them
what is chaos to the fly is normal to the spider - morticia addams
If you're not upsetting idiots, you might be an idiot. - Ted Nugent
_Themis
_Emeritus
Posts: 13426
Joined: Wed Feb 17, 2010 6:43 pm

Re: US Citizens Detained for Speaking Spanish

Post by _Themis »

subgenius wrote:Nope, because no one's rights were infringed.

Anytime law enforcement detains someone they are taking away rights. They only have authority to do so if they have reasonable grounds of criminal activity. Do you think speaking Spanish meets that criteria Subby?
42
_Hawkeye
_Emeritus
Posts: 487
Joined: Fri Mar 09, 2018 11:45 pm

Re: US Citizens Detained for Speaking Spanish

Post by _Hawkeye »

The facts are what they are and no reasonable non-hair-fire person would assume that the article's quote is masking some other motive...if you have other evidence then please smoke it out.

I just provided it. There was no reason for him to detain these citizens. None. He had authority to ask their status and they answered. He didn't have authority to detain them without cause. If a Liberal ICE agent started randomly stopping and detaining white Republicans because they cannot prove on the fly their legal status, you'd be singing a completely different tune. You wouldn't be saying the agent was just doing his job.

again, your ignorance of the law is astounding. Even the border agent did not accuse any "wrongdoing"...but he was obeying the laws, laws even recognized by, and the result of, the ACLU...try getting that education, ya know?

It helps to actually read the link you think supports your BS. From the link you provided:

Border Patrol, nevertheless, cannot pull anyone over without "reasonable suspicion" of an immigration violation or crime (reasonable suspicion is more than just a "hunch"). Similarly, Border Patrol cannot search vehicles in the 100-mile zone without a warrant or "probable cause" (a reasonable belief, based on the circumstances, that an immigration violation or crime has likely occurred).

In practice, Border Patrol agents routinely ignore or misunderstand the limits of their legal authority in the course of individual stops, resulting in violations of the constitutional rights of innocent people. These problems are compounded by inadequate training for Border Patrol agents, a lack of oversight by CBP and the U.S. Department of Homeland Security, and the consistent failure of CBP to hold agents accountable for abuse. No matter what CBP officers and Border Patrol agents think, our Constitution applies throughout the United States, including within this “100-mile border zone.”..

Federal border agents are stopping, interrogating, and searching Americans on an everyday basis with absolutely no suspicion of wrongdoing, and often in ways that our Constitution does not permit...

For example, Border Patrol, according to news reports, operates approximately 170 interior checkpoints throughout the country (the actual number in operation at any given time is not publicly known). The ACLU believes that these checkpoints amount to dragnet, suspicionless stops that cannot be reconciled with Fourth Amendment protections. The Supreme Court has upheld the use of immigration checkpoints, but only insofar as the stops consist only of a brief and limited inquiry into residence status.

Get that? Probably not.

Your appeal to authority is laughable and likely an exaggeration (or falsehood)...but i did giggle at your "Facebook" citation, maybe "your buddy" is actually "your comrade"?


Apppeal to authority? There are more than 40,000 thousand Latinos living in Montana and I don't need to quote a friend living there to prove they speak their own language whenever they want. This agent's excuse for stopping them isn't a good justification for doing it. The logic here is that if you're speaking a language that isn't the "predominant" language, then it is reasonable to assume you're there illegally.

read the 2nd link ya moron....even the ACLU is embarrassed for you.

You mean the one that says they can only do a "brief and limited inquiry into residence status"? It helps to comprehend.

он сказал, ебать себя
_subgenius
_Emeritus
Posts: 13326
Joined: Thu Sep 01, 2011 12:50 pm

Re: US Citizens Detained for Speaking Spanish

Post by _subgenius »

Themis wrote:
subgenius wrote:Nope, because no one's rights were infringed.

Anytime law enforcement detains someone they are taking away rights. They only have authority to do so if they have reasonable grounds of criminal activity. Do you think speaking Spanish meets that criteria Subby?

Lawful detainment by its definition is not a "taking away if rights" in the vein you intend.

Given where the event occurred and the authority afforded to Customs Officers the presence of "probable cause" is arguably fulfilled (a reasonable belief, based on the circumstances, that an immigration violation or crime has likely occurred).

Yeah, it could be arguable either way depending on facts that none of us have access to, but its hella nowhere close to what One-Eye is proposing.

So, what, in this circumstance, would constitute "probable cause" in your mind? What yet to be revealed facts of this event would convince you that the officer had a right to inquire further due to suspicion?

(I got $2 that says you first think "witness a crime" ).
Seek freedom and become captive of your desires...seek discipline and find your liberty
I can tell if a person is judgmental just by looking at them
what is chaos to the fly is normal to the spider - morticia addams
If you're not upsetting idiots, you might be an idiot. - Ted Nugent
_Hawkeye
_Emeritus
Posts: 487
Joined: Fri Mar 09, 2018 11:45 pm

Re: US Citizens Detained for Speaking Spanish

Post by _Hawkeye »

Earth to moron, I quoted the article you provided. They were detained, and the Supreme Court said they could not detain without probable cause. Speaking a foreign language isn't probable cause. This comes as a shock to you and your ignorant ilk no doubt, but some of us actually speak multiple languages and enjoy every day freedom of not being harassed by ICE. But that's because we're white.
_Themis
_Emeritus
Posts: 13426
Joined: Wed Feb 17, 2010 6:43 pm

Re: US Citizens Detained for Speaking Spanish

Post by _Themis »

subgenius wrote:Lawful detainment by its definition is not a "taking away if rights" in the vein you intend.


LOL Your trollish way of admitting I am right.

Given where the event occurred and the authority afforded to Customs Officers the presence of "probable cause" is arguably fulfilled (a reasonable belief, based on the circumstances, that an immigration violation or crime has likely occurred).


How so? The officer only said as far as we know that the only reason he stopped them is that they were speaking Spanish. How does that meet the probable cause that a immigration violation occurred?
42
Post Reply