It is currently Mon Jun 24, 2019 8:39 pm

All times are UTC - 7 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 34 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: The Longer Democrats Wait, the Weaker They Look
PostPosted: Fri May 03, 2019 6:47 am 
God
User avatar

Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2007 8:59 am
Posts: 13730
Pelosi better take some real action soon. Barr just handed the Democrats a gift: they have grounds to impeach the AG, could proceed with doing that, and delay impeaching the President. At least they'd appear to be doing their constitutional oversight.

Right now it just looks like they're stalling, afraid of political fallout. I must say, as an independent at the mercy of the strategic thinking of the Democratic Party, I'm watching them right now with exceptional disappointment. They look weaker by the day, and that will only embolden the tyrannical toddler in the White House.

Does anyone think they're handling this situation well?

_________________
It's OK to not think everything through. Just don't talk authoritatively about the subjects you've decided to forgo.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: The Longer Democrats Wait, the Weaker They Look
PostPosted: Fri May 03, 2019 6:30 pm 
God
User avatar

Joined: Tue Dec 26, 2006 8:29 pm
Posts: 4005
Perfume on my Mind wrote:
Pelosi better take some real action soon. Barr just handed the Democrats a gift: they have grounds to impeach the AG, could proceed with doing that, and delay impeaching the President. At least they'd appear to be doing their constitutional oversight.

Right now it just looks like they're stalling, afraid of political fallout. I must say, as an independent at the mercy of the strategic thinking of the Democratic Party, I'm watching them right now with exceptional disappointment. They look weaker by the day, and that will only embolden the tyrannical toddler in the White House.

Does anyone think they're handling this situation well?

Pelosie should not rush into something large which cannot be brought to a successful conclusion. If she and the Democrats do they may look both weak and foolish on top of it.

Rushing an impeachment without Republican support will of course result in no conviction and will play directly into Trump's propaganda. (despite other shortcomings he has some talent for propaganda)

Perfume on my mind, I have stated an alternative view but that does not completely erase the view you have stated.

I still believe it is far far better for Americas future to vote Trump out of office.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: The Longer Democrats Wait, the Weaker They Look
PostPosted: Fri May 03, 2019 9:18 pm 
God
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jun 17, 2012 5:29 pm
Posts: 4174
Location: The Yukon Hotel - 1187 Hunterwasser Los Angeles
Ideally the Democrats would like to hold hearings that would create more groundwork for an impeachment. I understand Pelosi's reluctance. She does not want to be seen rushing to judgement.

There are several questions here: The big one, obviously, is whether Donald Trump committed an impeachable offense. I have no doubt if you asked Pelosi off the record if Trump was guilty of obstruction of justice, she would answer yes. But knowing the President is guilty will mean far more if the rest of the country is on board. Right now, Trump's approval rating among Republicans is rock solid, and the stronger the support of the President, the weaker the backbone of any GOP member who contemplates standing against him.

The future that Nancy Pelosi fears is one where Trump survives the impeachment process. Paradoxically, if the President is impeached but not convicted, it is easier for him to be re-elected. We will be hearing the phrase 'witch hunt' in the 2028 elections. And personally, the idea of 4 more years of Donald Trump is enough to give anyone pause about considering a course of action that may increase his chances of winning. The future Pelosi might be hoping for is a heavily wounded Trump in 2020: A man who has an unbreakable hold on his base, but no chance of expanding his popularity.

As to impeaching Barr, you think you're going to get the Republicans to vote against him? And if you go after Barr and fail, do you then go after Trump? That ship will have probably sailed.

And yes, all of those pragmatic considerations seem to fly in the face of what we know to be true: That Trump obstructed justice, and he should impeached for it. You can make the argument that if we don't even try to impeach, Trump has already won, because he has intimidated the Democrats away from their Constitutional responsibilities. I think that is a legitimate argument.

I think you'll see Pelosi try to put the brakes on impeachment for a few weeks. If McGahn and Mueller testify before impeachment hearings, it might help the political climate for the Democrats. If if looks like there will be no testimony forthcoming that will help tilt the scales a bit, I think Pelosi will ultimately have no choice. There will be an impeachment.

_________________
"The great problem of any civilization is how to rejuvenate itself without rebarbarization."
- Will Durant
"We've kept more promises than we've even made"
- Donald Trump
"Of what meaning is the world without mind? The question cannot exist."
- Edwin Land


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: The Longer Democrats Wait, the Weaker They Look
PostPosted: Fri May 03, 2019 11:39 pm 
God

Joined: Sat Aug 11, 2012 12:17 am
Posts: 4973
Location: California
It is becoming painfully obvious that leading Republicans (especially in the Senate) are willing to cavalierly overlook virtually any misdeed or perjury, as long as it was a fellow Republican who committed it. This is frightening! Compare that with Democrats who have repeatedly shown a willingness to throw even one of their own under the bus who is clearly guilty of criminal or ethical violations--even relatively minor ones compared to the worst that Trump and his cronies have (so far) been allowed to get away with.

_________________
No precept or claim is more deservedly suspect or more likely to be false than one that can only be supported by invoking the claim of Divine authority for it--no matter who or what claims such authority.

“If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you; but if you really make them think, they'll hate you.”
― Harlan Ellison


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: The Longer Democrats Wait, the Weaker They Look
PostPosted: Mon May 06, 2019 7:02 am 
God
User avatar

Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2007 8:59 am
Posts: 13730
huckelberry wrote:
Pelosie should not rush into something large which cannot be brought to a successful conclusion. If she and the Democrats do they may look both weak and foolish on top of it.

I'm not sure how they look weak if they're doing their job.

I don't consider a conviction in the Senate the "successful conclusion" (although that would be great). A successful conclusion is a scenario where the House holds hearings with the key witnesses of the Mueller investigation that let the public know what the underlying evidence is. We can't get bipartisan agreement if the public doesn't know the facts (unfiltered through the media).

There's no doubt he won't be removed from office, and I understand Democrat's political fears. The problem is that they have a job to do right now and they aren't doing it. That's the bottom line. Trump is taking an ax to the tree of American democracy and Pelsoi's handing him a chainsaw to get the job done faster. Their paralysis is not helping the situation.

_________________
It's OK to not think everything through. Just don't talk authoritatively about the subjects you've decided to forgo.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: The Longer Democrats Wait, the Weaker They Look
PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2019 12:22 pm 
God
User avatar

Joined: Tue Oct 24, 2006 8:56 pm
Posts: 5701
Quote:
Trump is taking an axe to the tree of American democracy


Ok, I'll bite. Exactly how is Trump taking an ax to the tree of American democracy?

Does Democracy necessarily mean a more porous border and more wealth redistribution through taxation even when that's contrary to what the voters chose?

_________________
And when the confederates saw Jackson standing fearless as a stone wall the army of Northern Virginia took courage and drove the federal army off their land.


Last edited by ajax18 on Tue May 07, 2019 2:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: The Longer Democrats Wait, the Weaker They Look
PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2019 12:25 pm 
God

Joined: Fri Oct 27, 2006 12:44 pm
Posts: 12761
Perfume on my Mind wrote:
Pelosi better take some real action soon. Barr just handed the Democrats a gift: they have grounds to impeach the AG, could proceed with doing that, and delay impeaching the President. At least they'd appear to be doing their constitutional oversight.

Right now it just looks like they're stalling, afraid of political fallout. I must say, as an independent at the mercy of the strategic thinking of the Democratic Party, I'm watching them right now with exceptional disappointment. They look weaker by the day, and that will only embolden the tyrannical toddler in the White House.

Does anyone think they're handling this situation well?


Yes. What do you think an impeachment proceeding looks like? They're calling in witnesses to testify. That's the first stage of impeachment proceeding. They're just not calling it that.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: The Longer Democrats Wait, the Weaker They Look
PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2019 4:43 pm 
God
User avatar

Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2007 8:59 am
Posts: 13730
Kevin Graham wrote:
Perfume on my Mind wrote:
Does anyone think they're handling this situation well?

Yes. What do you think an impeachment proceeding looks like? They're calling in witnesses to testify. That's the first stage of impeachment proceeding. They're just not calling it that.

I think we're well past that. We're talking about refused lawful requests for documents (tax returns), refusing subpoenas, blocking witnesses, and Trump outright admitting he would refuse all congressional requests. They can't investigate if the White House won't comply. They are at war. It seems to me formal impeachment proceedings would get the ball rolling.

_________________
It's OK to not think everything through. Just don't talk authoritatively about the subjects you've decided to forgo.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: The Longer Democrats Wait, the Weaker They Look
PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2019 4:58 pm 
God
User avatar

Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2007 8:59 am
Posts: 13730
ajax18 wrote:
Ok, I'll bite. Exactly how is Trump taking an ax to the tree of American democracy?

Christ, your blindness is staggering.

Do you actually read any of the posts here? I mean, it's not like nobody's talked about it. You could start here.

_________________
It's OK to not think everything through. Just don't talk authoritatively about the subjects you've decided to forgo.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: The Longer Democrats Wait, the Weaker They Look
PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2019 8:04 pm 
God
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 01, 2011 6:50 am
Posts: 11978
Location: Your mother's purse
Perfume on my Mind wrote:
ajax18 wrote:
Ok, I'll bite. Exactly how is Trump taking an ax to the tree of American democracy?

Christ, your blindness is staggering.

Do you actually read any of the posts here? I mean, it's not like nobody's talked about it. You could start here.

No seriously, what laws have been broken and where is the erosion of "democracy"?
we have literally (for those actually paying attention) seen more evidence of "democracy" wrong doing from the DNC than from Trump (see also Hillary Clinton nomination, Steele Dossier, etc)
So, forgive me if i consider "talked about" hair fires as being less than factual evidence for your claim. Hysteria just isn't as convincing to me as it is for you.

_________________
Seek freedom and become captive of your desires...seek discipline and find your liberty
I can tell if a person is judgmental just by looking at them
what is chaos to the fly is normal to the spider - morticia addams
If you're not upsetting idiots, you might be an idiot. - Ted Nugent


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: The Longer Democrats Wait, the Weaker They Look
PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2019 8:12 pm 
God

Joined: Fri Oct 27, 2006 12:44 pm
Posts: 12761
Intimidating witnesses to prevent them from testifying, obstruction of justice, refusing to produce his tax returns which the House can demand by law, refusing to comply with lawful subpoenas because he doesn't understand checks and balances and the fact that there are three equal branches of government yet he wants to be a dictator/CEO. And now he's telling Barr to refuse Congress the full unredacted Mueller report.

That's just from this past week, an not even scratching the surface of his previous felonies outlined by the Southern District of New York. His violation of the emoluments clause. His illegal actions on foreign and domestic policies that result in the courts constantly block him with injunctions.

More than 500 former prosecutors signed a statement saying Trump is guilty of obstruction of justice based on the evidence outlined in the Mueller report. Only the idiots with their heads in the sand think Barr is being genuine with his circus show level defense of Trump.

But oh yes, tell us more about Hillary. Those emails, right?


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: The Longer Democrats Wait, the Weaker They Look
PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2019 8:19 pm 
God

Joined: Fri Oct 27, 2006 12:44 pm
Posts: 12761
Here is a list of laws broken by Trump compiled three years ago:

— Donald Trump has a long history of not honoring contracts with construction companies

— Donald Trump has knowingly and intentionally defrauded Trump University students, fleecing them out of thousands of dollars

— He may have illegally coordinated with his SuperPac

— He illegally used corporate resources to pay an employee to write a political speech

— He violated federal law by claiming proceeds from various Trump products would go to charity, although there is no evidence that Trump ever donated the money to charity

— He violated IRS rules by using $12,000 from his charity organization to purchase a Tim Tebow helmet

— He violated election laws by emailing foreign officials to solicit political contributions

— He violated federal laws by offering Ben Carson a job in exchange for his endorsement

— His employees violated a U.S. trade embargo by pursuing commercial activities in Cuba when it was illegal to do so

— He’s run afoul of election laws by using campaign contributions to pay $6 million to his own businesses

— He violated Wisconsin election laws by talking with voters as they stood in line to vote

— He violated New York state education laws for operating a for-profit investment school without the required license

— His foreign policy proposals would violate NATO

— He’s violated copyright law for using copyrighted images without permission

— Many of the proposals he has vowed to pursue as President violate the First, Fourth, Fifth, and Eighth Amendments of the Constitution

— Trump broke New York state law by lobbying to prevent an Indian casino from opening in the Catskills

— His vow to use torture on suspected terrorists would violate the Geneva conventions. He would be committing war crimes.

— He broke anti-discrimination laws to keep a mob boss gambling at one of his casinos

— He violated immigration laws by misrepresenting his company on work-visa applications


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: The Longer Democrats Wait, the Weaker They Look
PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2019 9:13 pm 
God
User avatar

Joined: Tue Oct 24, 2006 8:56 pm
Posts: 5701
Quote:
Christ, your blindness is staggering.

Do you actually read any of the posts here? I mean, it's not like nobody's talked about it. You could start here.


That's the kind of scientific evidence based response I've come to expect from a man who claims to base his conclusions on evidence rather than emotion. At least Kevin makes up fake news and calls it evidence.

_________________
And when the confederates saw Jackson standing fearless as a stone wall the army of Northern Virginia took courage and drove the federal army off their land.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: The Longer Democrats Wait, the Weaker They Look
PostPosted: Wed May 08, 2019 6:53 am 
God
User avatar

Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2007 8:59 am
Posts: 13730
ajax18 wrote:
That's the kind of scientific evidence based response I've come to expect from a man who claims to base his conclusions on evidence rather than emotion. At least Kevin makes up fake news and calls it evidence.

The question was stupid. It's like asking if water really exists. I was reacting to an incredibly stupid question, due to the massive amounts of evidence.

You're the guy dropped in the middle of a lake and dying of thirst.

_________________
It's OK to not think everything through. Just don't talk authoritatively about the subjects you've decided to forgo.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: The Longer Democrats Wait, the Weaker They Look
PostPosted: Wed May 08, 2019 7:21 am 
God
User avatar

Joined: Tue Oct 24, 2006 8:56 pm
Posts: 5701
Perfume on my Mind wrote:
ajax18 wrote:
That's the kind of scientific evidence based response I've come to expect from a man who claims to base his conclusions on evidence rather than emotion. At least Kevin makes up fake news and calls it evidence.

The question was stupid. It's like asking if water really exists. I was reacting to an incredibly stupid question, due to the massive amounts of evidence.

You're the guy dropped in the middle of a lake and dying of thirst.


None of this shows that Trump has destroyed or ended democracy. If anything the rise of populism is a case of working class Americans reestablishing Democracy, only you don't agree with the majority this time. The only reason it's not democracy in the opinion of liberals on this board is that you all don't agree with Trump's agenda.


I can't express enough the level of guts and perseverance Trump has shown and what he has achieved. It amazes me what belief he was able to maintain even when things looked so hopeless after 8 years of Obama, Pelosi, and Harry Reid. I truly thought the cause was lost. Trump has proven to me that is not the case. I have a country that I love again, at least for a while.

_________________
And when the confederates saw Jackson standing fearless as a stone wall the army of Northern Virginia took courage and drove the federal army off their land.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: The Longer Democrats Wait, the Weaker They Look
PostPosted: Wed May 08, 2019 11:11 am 
God

Joined: Wed Oct 25, 2006 2:12 am
Posts: 6203
Location: Arizona
ajax18 wrote:
None of this shows that Trump has destroyed or ended democracy. If anything the rise of populism is a case of working class Americans reestablishing Democracy, only you don't agree with the majority this time. The only reason it's not democracy in the opinion of liberals on this board is that you all don't agree with Trump's agenda.


The majority of Americans don't support Trump's agenda as we seen from the last midterms.
During the 2018 midterms, all the three rustbelt States that delivered Trump his victory in 2016 (PA, MI and WI), the Democrats won the senate and Governor’s races. Arizona elected their first Democratic Senator since 1988. And during the 2018 midterms, the Democrats gained as many as 40 House seats, which was the most House seats that they gained since 1974.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna938996

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018_Un ... _elections

_________________
"And I've said it before, you want to know what Joseph Smith looked like in Nauvoo, just look at Trump." - Fence Sitter


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: The Longer Democrats Wait, the Weaker They Look
PostPosted: Wed May 08, 2019 2:08 pm 
God
User avatar

Joined: Wed Dec 07, 2011 12:54 am
Posts: 6934
ajax18 wrote:
It amazes me what belief he was able to maintain even when things looked so hopeless after 8 years of Obama, Pelosi, and Harry Reid. I truly thought the cause was lost. Trump has proven to me that is not the case. I have a country that I love again, at least for a while.

What was the hopeless part? The long, steady economic recovery that occurred during that period, the lower levels of national debt and lesser trade deficit with China then as compared to now, or the smaller number of illegals within the country then, as compared to today? : )


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: The Longer Democrats Wait, the Weaker They Look
PostPosted: Wed May 08, 2019 6:54 pm 
God
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 01, 2011 6:50 am
Posts: 11978
Location: Your mother's purse
Kevin Graham wrote:
Intimidating witnesses to prevent them from testifying,

speculation, no law broken...learn the difference.

Kevin Graham wrote:
obstruction of justice,

speculation, no law broken....learn the difference.

Kevin Graham wrote:
refusing to produce his tax returns

Not illegal under current circumstances.

Kevin Graham wrote:
which the House can demand by law,

Only if their demand is legal and not politically motivated... a point made by Supreme Court.

Kevin Graham wrote:
refusing to comply with lawful subpoenas

Challenging the legality of a subpoena is not illegal.

Kevin Graham wrote:
because he doesn't understand checks and balances

not breaking a law.

Kevin Graham wrote:
and the fact that there are three equal branches of government yet he wants to be a dictator/CEO.

opinion and kinda weird...but no law broken.

Kevin Graham wrote:
And now he's telling Barr to refuse Congress the full unredacted Mueller report.

Not breaking a law.

Kevin Graham wrote:
previous felonies outlined by the Southern District of New York.

politically motivated attorneys don't determine guilt, courts do.
no law broken.

Kevin Graham wrote:
His violation of the emoluments clause.

arguable and no proof of a law broken....just your opinion.


Kevin Graham wrote:
His illegal actions on foreign and domestic policies that result in the courts constantly block him with injunctions.

"will result " is not same as did result and so...no law broken.

Kevin Graham wrote:
More than 500 former prosecutors signed a statement saying Trump is guilty of obstruction of justice based on the evidence outlined in the Mueller report.

Prosecutors don't get to decide guilt, courts do.
So...

Kevin Graham wrote:
Only the idiots with their heads in the sand think Barr is being genuine with his circus show level defense of Trump.

a disingenuous circus show is not illegal. Its actually a common tradition in DC.

Kevin Graham wrote:
But oh yes, tell us more about Hillary. Those emails, right?

Seems like your willingness to condemn over circumstantial evidence is a one way partisan street, ya hair fire baby.

_________________
Seek freedom and become captive of your desires...seek discipline and find your liberty
I can tell if a person is judgmental just by looking at them
what is chaos to the fly is normal to the spider - morticia addams
If you're not upsetting idiots, you might be an idiot. - Ted Nugent


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: The Longer Democrats Wait, the Weaker They Look
PostPosted: Wed May 08, 2019 11:40 pm 
God
User avatar

Joined: Wed Feb 03, 2010 11:17 pm
Posts: 8936
Claiming executive priviledge to block congressional access to the full Mueller Report?

Obstruction. No question.

_________________
The world is always full of the sound of waves..but who knows the heart of the sea, a hundred feet down? Who knows it's depth?
~ Eiji Yoshikawa


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: The Longer Democrats Wait, the Weaker They Look
PostPosted: Thu May 09, 2019 6:28 am 
God
User avatar

Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2007 8:59 am
Posts: 13730
ajax18 wrote:
If anything the rise of populism is a case of working class Americans reestablishing Democracy, only you don't agree with the majority this time.

There's no point talking to you. My dog knows more than you do.

_________________
It's OK to not think everything through. Just don't talk authoritatively about the subjects you've decided to forgo.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: The Longer Democrats Wait, the Weaker They Look
PostPosted: Thu May 09, 2019 6:34 am 
God
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 01, 2011 6:50 am
Posts: 11978
Location: Your mother's purse
honorentheos wrote:
Claiming executive priviledge to block congressional access to the full Mueller Report?

Obstruction. No question.

nope theres a question...couple of questions actually.
loke
1. With 92% of report available to public what do you think will be revealed within the the ither 8%?
2. Congress passed a law requiring grand jury info be redacted, why don't they just pass a law allowing grand jury info to be public?
3. Why does it make sense to you that Justice is being obstructed by the DoJ obeying a law Congress passed?
4. When the DoJ Eric Holder refused subpoenas over Fast/Furious, why did you lack the political hysteria that seems to overflow from your cup today?

_________________
Seek freedom and become captive of your desires...seek discipline and find your liberty
I can tell if a person is judgmental just by looking at them
what is chaos to the fly is normal to the spider - morticia addams
If you're not upsetting idiots, you might be an idiot. - Ted Nugent


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 34 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

All times are UTC - 7 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Majestic-12 [Bot] and 9 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Jump to:  
Revival Theme By Brandon Designs By B.Design-Studio © 2007-2008 Brandon
Revival Theme Based off SubLite By Echo © 2007-2008 Echo
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group