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 Post subject: RIP Mollie Tibbetts
PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2018 7:55 pm 
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https://www.yahoo.com/news/officials-be ... 27935.html

The Iowa ACLU released this statement:

http://www.kwwl.com/story/38933447/2018 ... e-tibbetts

“Our hearts grieve at the news of Mollie Tibbetts’ death. It’s unfortunate that during a tragedy like this some people choose to polarize our communities and our state by politicizing the situation and emphasizing the immigration status of the person accused. It’s important to remind ourselves that, sadly, people of all races and levels of citizenship commit crimes.

The fact of the matter is that the vast number of undocumented immigrants do not commit criminal acts. In fact, studies show that they commit fewer criminal acts than U.S. citizens. Most undocumented Iowans are our neighbors, our fellow church members, fellow active parents at our schools, and our friends. It’s important right now to pull together as a community to grieve and do what we can to comfort Mollie’s family and loved ones—not to demonize immigrants who are struggling to make a better life for themselves and their families.”

Isn't this issue inherently political?

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 Post subject: Re: RIP Mollie Tibbetts
PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2018 8:53 pm 
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Why do people focus on rare instances like these and make them a political issue? Because driving their political points is more important to them. Sean Hannity talked about this more tonight than he did the fact that the President is a criminal himself. As horrific as this is, the fact still remains that this would have to happen literally 10 times per day before matching the murders committed by non-immigrants.


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 Post subject: Re: RIP Mollie Tibbetts
PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2018 11:13 pm 
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Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:
Isn't this issue inherently political?


I don't recall past presidents in my lifetime making something like this political in the ways Trump is. Trump promotes hatred and violence in order to appeal to his racist core supporters. He loses them and many Republican senators and congressman will have no problem impeaching him in the near future.

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 Post subject: Re: RIP Mollie Tibbetts
PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2018 5:28 am 
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Oh, I was thinking that you have a young college student murdered by an illegal alien is, in of itself, political. It would make sense the President would use that as a talking point much in the same way the Iowa ACLU chimed in.

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 Post subject: Re: RIP Mollie Tibbetts
PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2018 7:14 am 
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Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:
Oh, I was thinking that you have a young college student murdered by an illegal alien is, in of itself, political. It would make sense the President would use that as a talking point much in the same way the Iowa ACLU chimed in.

- Dlc
Do you think the ACLU would have felt the need to have a press release if there wasn't a pattern of behavior from the President and Far-Right elements of the GOP seizing on everyone of these as justification for curtailing any and all immigration, including the use of separating children from guardians?

To your opening post: is it that you agree with a side that the immigration status of the suspect is important/not important or do you just see this as hypocrisy from both sides somehow?

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 Post subject: Re: RIP Mollie Tibbetts
PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2018 7:26 am 
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by definition, every undocumented immigrant (aka illegal alien) has committed at least 1 criminal act...ergo a 100% crime rate.
But thanks to the ACLU for practicing what they preach by not "politicizing" this event....oh, wait.

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Last edited by subgenius on Wed Aug 22, 2018 12:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: RIP Mollie Tibbetts
PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2018 7:29 am 
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Xenophon wrote:
To your opening post: is it that you agree with a side that the immigration status of the suspect is important/not important or do you just see this as hypocrisy from both sides somehow?


Well, for me I think we have a serious vetting issue when it comes to immigrants. This is why I don't mind heavy enforcement of the border, but on the same token I really don't see why we can't do work visas that include a pathway to citizenship. The thing with Trump is I don't see the GOP entertaining any viable solution that balances the needs of our farms, factories, and other businesses where immigrants are willing to work against our security, which admittedly is fine other than the crimes some illegals commit.

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 Post subject: Re: RIP Mollie Tibbetts
PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2018 8:06 am 
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Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:
Well, for me I think we have a serious vetting issue when it comes to immigrants. This is why I don't mind heavy enforcement of the border, but on the same token I really don't see why we can't do work visas that include a pathway to citizenship. The thing with Trump is I don't see the GOP entertaining any viable solution that balances the needs of our farms, factories, and other businesses where immigrants are willing to work against our security, which admittedly is fine other than the crimes some illegals commit.

- Doc
I still fail to see how border enforcement is the critical issue, especially with consideration to immigration. Visas continue to be the bigger piece of the pie both when considering immigration as a whole but also when only considering illegal immigrants. Again this isn't to suggest that we should just ignore the border (something we haven't done in decades), just that maybe we should fish where the fish are.

I agree that the visa program could use a lot of love and that the tract to citizenship should really be streamlined for those that are contributing to society. I alluded to it on another thread but a very good friend of mine finally got citizenship after a long, arduous and expensive 10 years... and he went the "quick" route by marrying a U.S. citizen. The statistics have been shared too many times to count here but the simple fact remains that immigrants are good for the country. For all the desire to realize American Exceptionalism you would think we would embrace it a little more.

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 Post subject: Re: RIP Mollie Tibbetts
PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2018 11:33 am 
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This is interesting:

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/mollie-tib ... r-suspect/

Quote:
Rivera – who's lived in the area between four and seven years – worked at a nearby dairy farm, owned by the family of local Republican leader Craig Lang. In a statement, the farm said Rivera passed a government screening that made him eligible to work. If convicted, Rivera faces life in prison without parole.


What kind of government screening exists that screens illegal aliens for employability? This is really bizarre.

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 Post subject: Re: RIP Mollie Tibbetts
PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2018 11:44 am 
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Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:
What kind of government screening exists that screens illegal aliens for employability? This is really bizarre.
Running purely on speculation, Rivera probably provided fraudulent information that allowed him to pass E-verify's. In my neck of the woods it isn't unheard of to provide fake IDs tied to circumvent that kind of stuff.

ETA: Assuming they aren't lying about having checked him against E-verify

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 Post subject: Re: RIP Mollie Tibbetts
PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2018 12:00 pm 
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Kevin Graham wrote:
Why do people focus on rare instances like these and make them a political issue?

It is like you have never seen any thread you ever started on this board.
Physician heal thyself.

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 Post subject: Re: RIP Mollie Tibbetts
PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2018 12:07 pm 
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Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:
What kind of government screening exists that screens illegal aliens for employability? This is really bizarre.

- Doc

what kind? this kind ---> https://www.eeoc.gov/eeoc/publications/ ... -facts.cfm
and the The Immigration and Nationality Act (INA), 8 U.S.C. § 1324 - prevents "discrimination based upon citizenship status".

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 Post subject: Re: RIP Mollie Tibbetts
PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2018 1:13 pm 
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We need undocumented immigrants in our country. We need them to work for us or below us. It just makes economic sense in our capitalist economy. Republicans are stupid for wanting to deport them. I have a feeling that many employers are all for illegal immigration.


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 Post subject: Re: RIP Mollie Tibbetts
PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2018 2:49 pm 
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Xenophon wrote:
ETA: Assuming they aren't lying about having checked him against E-verify
Des Moines Register is reporting that Yarrabee Farms was not registered with E-verify so it begs the question how they could have possibly run Rivera though the system.

From the article wrote:
In the statement, Dane Lang said Rivera worked for Yarrabee Farms for four years and "was vetted through the government's E-Verify system."

Yarrabee Farms is not registered in the government system, though, which is a requirement to run a check on even one employee.

The company did not immediately respond Wednesday to questions about its vetting process.

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 Post subject: Re: RIP Mollie Tibbetts
PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2018 3:05 pm 
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Subs? You want to elaborate a bit on this? What system was the rapist murderous illegal alien who worked for a Republican business vetted through?

- Doc


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 Post subject: Re: RIP Mollie Tibbetts
PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2018 3:13 pm 
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Kevin Graham wrote:
Why do people focus on rare instances like these and make them a political issue?

This is the stuff the Kremlin hacking crew lives for, stuff that helps create divisiveness. We've seen those type of issues brought to this forum for years, whether it involves racial and gender issues, or is simply a continuing barrage against libruls. Each instance is meant to foment divisiveness. These Kremlin tactics are much more effective on those already susceptible to distrust and loathing of others.

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 Post subject: Re: RIP Mollie Tibbetts
PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2018 3:46 pm 
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Kevin Graham wrote:
Why do people focus on rare instances like these and make them a political issue? Because driving their political points is more important to them. Sean Hannity talked about this more tonight than he did the fact that the President is a criminal himself. As horrific as this is, the fact still remains that this would have to happen literally 10 times per day before matching the murders committed by non-immigrants.


I know the case of Mollie is really sad, but I do not understand why she gets so much coverage. In the USA there are 27 - 30 homicides per day. What makes Mollie's case so special?


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 Post subject: Re: RIP Mollie Tibbetts
PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2018 4:00 pm 
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DoubtingThomas wrote:
We need undocumented immigrants in our country. We need them to work for us or below us. It just makes economic sense in our capitalist economy. Republicans are stupid for wanting to deport them. I have a feeling that many employers are all for illegal immigration.

Of course, illegal immigrants are huge factors in perpetuating wage suppression.

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 Post subject: Re: RIP Mollie Tibbetts
PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2018 4:05 pm 
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Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:
Subs? You want to elaborate a bit on this? What system was the rapist murderous illegal alien who worked for a Republican business vetted through?

- Doc

Doesn't matter the system, you're not allowed to discriminate against a applicant or an employee due to their citizenship status. The only exception is if a person is "illegal" longer than 6 months at the time of screening.

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 Post subject: Re: RIP Mollie Tibbetts
PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2018 4:17 pm 
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It's not nationally newsworthy, in of itself, that an immigrant, legal or undocumented, committed a violent crime. Crime specifically committed by immigrants is not even a significant social problem. The Trump admin and likeminded allies do everything in their power to magnify coverage of crimes committed by immigrants to demonize them as a class, promote xenophobia, justify harsh policies on immigration, and distract the public from the torrent of negative stories about themselves. That's what "politicizing" means as a negative. Everything is political in some sense, but that doesn't mean "the criminal Jew" style stories are legitimate targets for press focus. But because this occurs, groups focused on human rights tend to feel obligated to respond and counter the messaging.


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 Post subject: Re: RIP Mollie Tibbetts
PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2018 4:19 pm 
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DoubtingThomas wrote:
Kevin Graham wrote:
Why do people focus on rare instances like these and make them a political issue? Because driving their political points is more important to them. Sean Hannity talked about this more tonight than he did the fact that the President is a criminal himself. As horrific as this is, the fact still remains that this would have to happen literally 10 times per day before matching the murders committed by non-immigrants.


I know the case of Mollie is really sad, but I do not understand why she gets so much coverage. In the USA there are 27 - 30 homicides per day. What makes Mollie's case so special?


She's a young, photogenic white girl who went missing and there's a whole genre of tabloid press that focuses intensely on that. They do that because it sells. Not every instance of this happening snowballs into a national story, but we're pretty much always either in the midst of one or in the cusp of starting another.


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