On a roll, so I may as well keep going.

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_Gadianton
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Re: On a roll, so I may as well keep going.

Post by _Gadianton »

Mark wrote:I disagree and agree.

There are different types of homeless people. The types that are saturated and who you generally see on the streets are mentally ill, drug burn outs, and drug addicts. Most are there becasue they cannot hold a job. Many of these are just bad people Glad...thieves.


Let's proceed slowly now. Your LA Times article said there was a 23% increase in homelessness from 2016 - 2017 primarily driven by increased housing prices. This statement is not incompatible with your beliefs about the mental states or moral character of those 23%. For all we know, each of one of those 23% is a thief and a drug addict. In other words, it's perfectly possible that for the years leading up to 2017, these 23% were "bad people" who could yet somehow, still afford housing and therefore, they were not on the street. Prices go up, they can't keep up, and now they are on the street. Whatever the moral character of the 23% is, and i am happy to assume the worst based on your personal observations, prior to 2017, they had retained housing for themselves. And so if the development plans LA has in mind are realized, there is good reason to believe that once housing at pre 2016 prices is made available for them, they will take their broken lives back indoors.

You keep pressing EA to explain how social workers are going to follow them around and fix their problems. For the sake of getting them indoors, their problems don't need to be fixed beyond whatever level their problems were in 2016.

Your only option to maintain the consistency of your argument is to say that housing prices have nothing at all to do with the problem, and that these folks are simply bad or mentally ill people who can't afford any level of rent. And from there, you must explain how suddenly, within a year, mental illness and moral decline boomed for the LA area such that there are 23% more potheads and thieves than there were the previous year.

As soon as you allow for any compatibility at all between being morally or mentally compromised and yet still able to afford any amount of rent whatsoever, you open your king to check by discovery, and you lose the game, Markk. But if you reject outright that compromised people can or will live indoors for any amount of rent, then you must explain the mechanism by which there are suddenly 23% more thieves and immoral people than there were the year before.

So what's your explanation? Because apparently, you totally reject everything about the article you cited as evidence for your case, except for the % increase.
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_Analytics
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Re: On a roll, so I may as well keep going.

Post by _Analytics »

Markk wrote:
Analytics wrote:I was referring to what you said when you said, "it is a myth that immigrants are all skilled and hard working...that is a joke."

If you feel I misunderstood what you meant, I appreciate the clarification.


Yes...and the key word is 'all'...and you left out what else I said.

Also, it is a myth that immigrants are all skilled and hard working...that is a joke. I help manage a company full of immigrants and huge percentage are lazy, unreliable, and most are not skilled at all beyond general labor. I have to tell them to put their phones down all the time. Some are very hard workers and some are very skilled...but most milk the system and the turnover rate is probably 25% or more after 3 or 4 months. I can't begin to tell you how far off you are on this, not even in the ball park.

Like I said, you are picking out what you want to here.

How many illegal immigrants, from south of the border, do you know and manage in a work environment?


Again, thank you for clarifying your position. I don't recall ever hearing or saying that literally "all" immigrants are skilled and hard working. If there really is a myth like that out there I'vd never heard it, and it certainly doesn't have anything to do with the post to which you were responding.

I don't have an issue with you Markk. I don't "want" to hear anything that you aren't saying.

I'm just trying to suggest that when we see people living in tents that we don't have the knee-jerk reaction that the problem is caused by hard-working immigrants and that the the situation would be improved if we deported the people who are actually building houses and are willing to do so for a relatively low wage.
It’s relatively easy to agree that only Homo sapiens can speak about things that don’t really exist, and believe six impossible things before breakfast. You could never convince a monkey to give you a banana by promising him limitless bananas after death in monkey heaven.

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_Markk
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Re: On a roll, so I may as well keep going.

Post by _Markk »

Analytics wrote:]

Again, thank you for clarifying your position. I don't recall ever hearing or saying that literally "all" immigrants are skilled and hard working. If there really is a myth like that out there I'vd never heard it, and it certainly doesn't have anything to do with the post to which you were responding.

I don't have an issue with you Markk. I don't "want" to hear anything that you aren't saying.

I'm just trying to suggest that when we see people living in tents that we don't have the knee-jerk reaction that the problem is caused by hard-working immigrants and that the the situation would be improved if we deported the people who are actually building houses and are willing to do so for a relatively low wage.


Can you point me to where I said that the homelessness is caused my immigration, let alone by hard working immigrants? If anything I have implied I believe it is caused by drugs and alcohol abuse in most cases...even most the mentally ill may have roots from drug abuse.

You are conflating two different topics. And are trying to force things I wrote, out of context and edited, into something I never said.

You did not answer though of how many Immigrants of question that you work with and have a relationship with..and you don't have too. My point is when you live and work with them, you have a pretty good idea of the situation.

What do/did you do for a living?
Don't take life so seriously in that " sooner or later we are just old men in funny clothes" "Tom 'T-Bone' Wolk"
_Analytics
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Joined: Thu Feb 15, 2007 9:24 pm

Re: On a roll, so I may as well keep going.

Post by _Analytics »

Markk wrote:
Analytics wrote:]

Again, thank you for clarifying your position. I don't recall ever hearing or saying that literally "all" immigrants are skilled and hard working. If there really is a myth like that out there I'vd never heard it, and it certainly doesn't have anything to do with the post to which you were responding.

I don't have an issue with you Markk. I don't "want" to hear anything that you aren't saying.

I'm just trying to suggest that when we see people living in tents that we don't have the knee-jerk reaction that the problem is caused by hard-working immigrants and that the the situation would be improved if we deported the people who are actually building houses and are willing to do so for a relatively low wage.


Can you point me to where I said that the homelessness is caused my immigration, let alone by hard working immigrants? If anything I have implied I believe it is caused by drugs and alcohol abuse in most cases...even most the mentally ill may have roots from drug abuse.

You are conflating two different topics. And are trying to force things I wrote, out of context and edited, into something I never said.

You did not answer though of how many Immigrants of question that you work with and have a relationship with..and you don't have too. My point is when you live and work with them, you have a pretty good idea of the situation.

What do/did you do for a living?


On your first point, you can believe anything you want. You can even agree with me. I have no problem with that.

Regarding your question, I am an actuary. My wife is an immigrant, and her parents came to America on immigration visas. After a couple of monrhs they decided they didn't like America and decided to return to Argentina. I do a fair amount of work in Mexico and have employees there.
It’s relatively easy to agree that only Homo sapiens can speak about things that don’t really exist, and believe six impossible things before breakfast. You could never convince a monkey to give you a banana by promising him limitless bananas after death in monkey heaven.

-Yuval Noah Harari
_Markk
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Joined: Sun Feb 10, 2008 4:04 am

Re: On a roll, so I may as well keep going.

Post by _Markk »

Analytics wrote:

Regarding your question, I am an actuary.


I have to ask, do you play Fantasy Football?
Don't take life so seriously in that " sooner or later we are just old men in funny clothes" "Tom 'T-Bone' Wolk"
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