Draining the Swamp

The Off-Topic forum for anything non-LDS related, such as sports or politics. Rated PG through PG-13.
_Maksutov
_Emeritus
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Re: Draining the Swamp

Post by _Maksutov »

Going low to win has costs. We'll see if it's the GOP or the USA that pays them.
"God" is the original deus ex machina. --Maksutov
_Markk
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Re: Draining the Swamp

Post by _Markk »

EAllusion wrote:Trump is indebted to the GOP because they are the ones protecting him from a more robust investigative process and allowing him to use his office to personally benefit financially. They don't have to do either and Trump knows it. Trump has ceded all policy ground except immigration and Russia to Congressional Republicans. And his administrative appointments seem mostly to be a combination of his personal nepotism and Mike Pence's dream-team. This makes sense given that we know he had offered Kaisich control of both foreign and domestic policy in exchange for accepting a VP nod.

Trump is mostly a proxy for hard right GOP desires and on every substantial front his campaign rhetoric diverged with GOP positioning, his admin has broken its promises in favor of GOP positions. Again, the only notable exceptions are immigration and Russia.

In turn, the GOP leadership adores Trump and has been working rather diligently to bolster him specifically because he's signed almost whatever they want. They also desperately need him to be successful because the partisan coat-tail effects for the president are very large these days due to a collapse in the influence of local media. In other words, the public votes for or against local candidates based on their perception of the president. The Republican party has been on a donations bonanza lately from the ultra-wealthy donor class because they received a financial windfall from the recent tax cuts. The GOP and Trump are tied at the hip.

Almost every single statement you are making Markk is 180 degree the opposite of reality. It's a bit frustrating to see, but really, it's disturbing. That's the environment that explains why politicians can so easily get away with things.


Well... We certainly disagree, if the GOP is so much behind him why isin’t He getting what he wants all the time? I see the heads of the senate and house clinching teeth having to defend this guy sometimes.

At any rate...your record here, and predictions are typically and consistently wrong. That is something we can objectively test.
Don't take life so seriously in that " sooner or later we are just old men in funny clothes" "Tom 'T-Bone' Wolk"
_Brackite
_Emeritus
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Re: Draining the Swamp

Post by _Brackite »

Kevin...one, I rarely watch Fox news, or any cable news anymore, in fact I watch ABC news more than anything most weekday Mornings, which is about as anti-Trump as it comes. I drive 4 or more hours each day, and I listen to KFI radio when I drive (after the Dan Patrick Show), which is hardly right, Bill Handel hates the man, John and Ken hate all politicians and are objective and bias to each situation and issue, and are switch hitters hating both Democrats and republicans.


I used to listen to the Bill Handel radio show many years ago. I even called up his radio show once and talked with him. I am not surprised that Bill Handel dislikes Trump. And it is true that John and Ken dislike basically every politician.

Two, I disapprove of allot of things Trump does, he is an ass...but given our choices I do believe he is better than Hillary and Bernie.


Now I am going to go Dr. Shades on you. It is spelled a lot, Not allot. A lot of people end up spelling a lot wrong. A lot is spelled as two words.

https://www.grammarly.com/blog/a-lot-alot-allot/


in my opinion, saying that Trump is better than Hillary is like saying that a broken leg is better than a broken arm. There were several other Republicans running that were better for the Presidency than Trump. I believe that Governor John Kasich was the best choice for President who was running within the GOP Primary.


But I can be objective enough to concede he is doing good things also, and per this conversation, maybe, just maybe the best thing he is doing is shaking up the status quo so we can maybe get a decent Commander and Chief.


President Trump is not a decent Commander in Chief. But with Trump as President, hopefully Democratic Congresswoman Sinema will become Arizona's next Senator along with the Democrats taking back the House. The swamp within the House needs to be drained with the Republicans needing to be voted out of it.
"And I've said it before, you want to know what Joseph Smith looked like in Nauvoo, just look at Trump." - Fence Sitter
_MeDotOrg
_Emeritus
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Re: Draining the Swamp

Post by _MeDotOrg »

Trump's idea of draining the swamp is to throw a stick of dynamite into it and have all the dead fish float to the surface.

Case in point: Rachel L. Brand, the No. 3 official at the Justice Department, plans to step down after nine months on the job as the country’s top law enforcement agency has been under attack by President Trump.

Brand was a Trump hire. Rosenstein was a Trump hire. Sessions was a Trump hire. Christopher Wray was a Trump hire. And yet, according to Trump, the departments are corrupt from the top down.

Believing that the FBI and Justice Department are corrupt from the top down requires some mental dexterity. Did this corrupt cabal form during the Obama administration, without protest from any of the numerous Republican members of the Departments, and this is only coming out now because the Departments are getting closer and closer to uncovering truths about the Trump administration's role in covering up their campaign's relationship with Russian operatives?

Want to know what 'the deep state' is? For Trump, it's a person who puts their loyalty to the Constitution above their personal loyalty to him.
"The great problem of any civilization is how to rejuvenate itself without rebarbarization."
- Will Durant
"We've kept more promises than we've even made"
- Donald Trump
"Of what meaning is the world without mind? The question cannot exist."
- Edwin Land
_honorentheos
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Re: Draining the Swamp

Post by _honorentheos »

Supposing the point of draining the swamp is to reestablish accountability of government to the governed, claims it is being done effectively ought to be based on demonstrating this positive outcome. Claim Trump is dismantling Washington isn't the same as showing how his behaviour is reducing the influences of money and lobbyists on politicians over concern for best representing their constituents.
The world is always full of the sound of waves..but who knows the heart of the sea, a hundred feet down? Who knows it's depth?
~ Eiji Yoshikawa
_canpakes
_Emeritus
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Re: Draining the Swamp

Post by _canpakes »

Markk wrote:I get your point and there will always be a self serving mentality with all politicians and administrations, but what i see different here is trump is rocking both sides of the Isle...and I believe this might be good for our country in the run.

I don't think that I can get on board with the idea that "rocking both sides of the aisle" is necessarily a good thing simply for what it is. In other words, what is the outcome of this change? That would seem to be the more important factor.

The Bolsheviks did a pretty good job of rocking both sides of the aisle during their own time in history, but I think that you'd agree that the result is not one that you find pleasing or desirable.

So I'll ask you what you believe this rocking is leading to. So far, I don't see anything any different happening in Washington other than a well-established conservative side of the Republican Party enacting most of their dream goals - items that strongly favor business or disproportionately favor a relatively small population within the upper income classes - while conveniently dismissing the more 'populist' or moral imperatives that Trump supposedly would wring out of both sides... such as, a responsible path to reducing debt. So what has Trump brought to the table aside from enabling this portion of the regular ol' Establishment to do what they've always opted for? Please give some examples of legislation or actions that you believe actually or materially assist that substantial portion of his voting base that is the Unrepresented Everyman. This is not a request for vague glossing-over of tired rhetoric - I'm looking for what you've observed to be effective policies and actions that are being enacted that would not have stood a chance prior to the last election.


Markk wrote:I think most youths that pay attention and care... are disgruntled at their parents politics, and watching them come home from work and turn on cable news and watch ignorant pundent's bicker back and forth in total hypocrisy.

What sort of legislative accomplishments within the Trump agenda (a.k.a. conservative Republican agenda) are addressing what contemporary youth see as problems needing to be solved?
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