Could You Have Survived this Encounter With Police?

[_The CCC]

Wasn't it just few weeks ago Drumpf and hid Gnome Sessions were telling us that it was police officers that were under attack? That unjustified police violence was non-existent?

[_Chap]

According to newspaper accounts, part of his defense was that he acted in accordance with his training.

Any half-way decent defending lawyer would try that line, true or not. So I don't think we can deduce much from what was said on his behalf in court - unless there was detailed sworn testimony from training officers that they told trainee officers to shout a lot and threaten shooting in the manner that this officer did.

[_Res Ipsa]

According to newspaper accounts, part of his defense was that he acted in accordance with his training.

Any half-way decent defending lawyer would try that line, true or not. So I don't think we can deduce much from what was said on his behalf in court - unless there was detailed sworn testimony from training officers that they told trainee officers to shout a lot and threaten shooting in the manner that this officer did.

The only thing I’ve deduced so far is that there may be some problems with how the officer was trained. In general, attorneys don’t just throw stuff against the wall and see what sticks. If the defense raised training as an issue, I would expect some kind of evidence to have introduced on that topic. I don’t know what it was, but it says to me that I shouldn’t rule training out as a factor without taking a look.

[_Res Ipsa]

Ok, here is what I think is a critical fact we’ve all missed: the guy shouting orders was not the guy who shot the victim. The guy shouting orders was a Sargeant, who testified as a defense witness. https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.azcent ... /871689001

So, do we still think this was just a bad apple? Or should we be taking a hard look at how we train police?

[_Doctor CamNC4Me]

Are they not trained on how to conduct a felony arrest? I thought it was pretty standard throughout the, uh, industry.

- Doc

[_Res Ipsa]

Are they not trained on how to conduct a felony arrest? I thought it was pretty standard throughout the, uh, industry.

- Doc

They didn’t even have evidence that a felony had been committed. As to uniform training, who knows?

[_honorentheos]

Ok, here is what I think is a critical fact we’ve all missed: the guy shouting orders was not the guy who shot the victim. The guy shouting orders was a Sargeant, who testified as a defense witness. https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.azcent ... /871689001

So, do we still think this was just a bad apple? Or should we be taking a hard look at how we train police?

It's hard to say if he was a bad apple or not. My understanding from local papers here in the area is that he was fired a couple of months after the incident for conduct-related reasons, not for the shooting. That is a mark in the 'bad apple' column but who really knows.

That said, I have to admit when I watched the video and subtracted out the knowledge we have of his not having a lethal firearm, no one being in the room, and the general senselessness of his killing that the video isn't compelling as an argument that the officer acted out of a desire to kill someone rather than out of his understanding of his duty. I seriously thought the guy was going to be shot when he first reached behind his back with both hands while kneeling. Knowing that the officer who fired was not making commands, and the sergeant who was giving orders had told the guy if he put his hands behind his back again he could be killed...yeah it's crazy but I can't say that the guy who shot was acting outside of whatever he was expected to do in that situation when the guy made a second move to his waistband.

[_Doctor CamNC4Me]

Are they not trained on how to conduct a felony arrest? I thought it was pretty standard throughout the, uh, industry.

- Doc

They didn’t even have evidence that a felony had been committed. As to uniform training, who knows?

Well. The call was about a weapon being pointed out a window or whatever. I'm fairly certain that isn't a misdemeanor unless you're in Texas.

- Doc

[_Themis]

I did a little more reading on this. According to newspaper accounts, part of his defense was that he acted in accordance with his training. If the training was flawed, he argued, he shouldn’t be punished for it. I don’t know what evidence he used to show how he was trained, but it suggests to me that there’s more going on than a bad apple.

If that was his training then these guys are poorly trained. He seemed to be purposely escalating the situation. He threatened this innocent citizens life several times if he made any mistake in following his commands.

[_Themis]

So, do we still think this was just a bad apple? Or should we be taking a hard look at how we train police?

Training probably needs to be changed. People need to realize police are a real threat to the public. The benefit we get from arming people to enforce the laws outweighs that risk in most areas, but there is still a risk to the public. We should think a little bit about that before we call police. I would probably not call police right away if I had a loved one having a mental breakdown and acting out in a violent way. I would try and get family and friends to first help to get the situation under control before getting police involved. It can be Russian roulette to call police not knowing if they will just pull out their guns and shoot first if the person won't obey commands.