Burden of Proof

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_Maksutov
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Re: Burden of Proof

Post by _Maksutov »

Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:
Res Ipsa wrote:I'd love to take credit for it, but I'm sure I stole it from somewhere. I'll betcha Doc has a dandy gif.....


Well. It's actually "puppy dogs and rainbows", but since I'm a bridge builder I'll incorporate unicorns:

Image

- Doc


Jesus, Doc. I hope you took a shower after you made that picture.
"God" is the original deus ex machina. --Maksutov
_Doctor CamNC4Me
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Re: Burden of Proof

Post by _Doctor CamNC4Me »

Oh. I'm no Mr. Peterson. I didn't make that. I googled farmed it. I thought the attribution on the picture itself was enough.

- Doc
In the face of madness, rationality has no power - Xiao Wang, US historiographer, 2287 AD.

Every record...falsified, every book rewritten...every statue...has been renamed or torn down, every date...altered...the process is continuing...minute by minute. History has stopped. Nothing exists except an endless present in which the Ideology is always right.
_Lemmie
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Re: Burden of Proof

Post by _Lemmie »

Res Ipsa wrote:
I want to make one thing crystal clear: I will answer any question you have about the positions I've taken,

There's only one of us here that's refusing to share evidence, and that's you.

As some guy said once, I cannot read a sealed book.

How odd. I thought you wanted to have a debate about burden of proof. I've posted so much about all of this that I had no idea you just wanted me to collect all my evidence and present it to you. I'll tell you what, my treat, I'll hire a secretary for you, and they can collect whatever evidence you want from my posts, collate it, even put it a nice pretty cover over it. You won't have to do a speck of work.
Last edited by Guest on Tue Nov 21, 2017 4:26 am, edited 1 time in total.
_Lemmie
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Re: Burden of Proof

Post by _Lemmie »

EAllusion wrote:In this dispute so petty yet involved it is almost surreal, I spent way to much time following the full chain of argument. I have to say I think Res Ipsa is clearly right.

That is all.

:lol: :lol: :lol: I'm honored, EAllusion. That a moderator would spend the time not only reading about this petty situation but then take the time to pronounce a winner is quite a gift. What did we do to deserve such attention?!! You must like us very, very much. :cool: :cool:
_EAllusion
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Re: Burden of Proof

Post by _EAllusion »

Lemmie wrote:
EAllusion wrote:In this dispute so petty yet involved it is almost surreal, I spent way to much time following the full chain of argument. I have to say I think Res Ipsa is clearly right.

That is all.

:lol: :lol: :lol: I'm honored, EAllusion. That a moderator would spend the time not only reading about this petty situation but then take the time to pronounce a winner is quite a gift. What did we do to deserve such attention?!! You must like us very, very much. :cool: :cool:


I read things and have opinions on them. Cue firetruck sirens.

I don't think you acquitted yourself well in this exchange.
_Res Ipsa
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Re: Burden of Proof

Post by _Res Ipsa »

Lemmie wrote:
Res Ipsa wrote:
I want to make one thing crystal clear: I will answer any question you have about the positions I've taken,

There's only one of us here that's refusing to share evidence, and that's you.

As some guy said once, I cannot read a sealed book.

How odd. I thought you wanted to have a debate about burden of proof. I've posted so much about all of this that I had no idea you just wanted me to collect all my evidence and present it to you. I'll tell you what, my treat, I'll hire a secretary for you, and they can collect whatever evidence you want from my posts, collate it, even put it a nice pretty cover over it. You won't have to do a speck of work.


Once again, a straw man. I’ve not asked you to do anything that would require the hiring of a secretary or poring through all your posts. You claim that at the time I made my original statement you knew that you had evidence that my statement was false. All I’ve asked is for you to tell me what that evidence is.
​“The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated communist, but people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists.”

― Hannah Arendt, The Origins of Totalitarianism, 1951
_Lemmie
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Re: Burden of Proof

Post by _Lemmie »

Lemmie wrote:
Res Ipsa wrote:
I want to make one thing crystal clear: I will answer any question you have about the positions I've taken,

There's only one of us here that's refusing to share evidence, and that's you.

As some guy said once, I cannot read a sealed book.

How odd. I thought you wanted to have a debate about burden of proof. I've posted so much about all of this that I had no idea you just wanted me to collect all my evidence and present it to you. I'll tell you what, my treat, I'll hire a secretary for you, and they can collect whatever evidence you want from my posts, collate it, even put it a nice pretty cover over it. You won't have to do a speck of work.

Res Ipsa wrote:Once again, a straw man. I’ve not asked you to do anything that would require the hiring of a secretary or poring through all your posts. You claim that at the time I made my original statement you knew that you had evidence that my statement was false. All I’ve asked is for you to tell me what that evidence is.

Your last sentence explains your real intention. This is not a thread about how important it is to clarify who has the burden of proof, is it?

check your PMs.
Last edited by Guest on Tue Nov 21, 2017 7:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
_Res Ipsa
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Re: Burden of Proof

Post by _Res Ipsa »

Lemmie wrote:How odd. I thought you wanted to have a debate about burden of proof. I've posted so much about all of this that I had no idea you just wanted me to collect all my evidence and present it to you. I'll tell you what, my treat, I'll hire a secretary for you, and they can collect whatever evidence you want from my posts, collate it, even put it a nice pretty cover over it. You won't have to do a speck of work.

Res Ipsa wrote:Once again, a straw man. I’ve not asked you to do anything that would require the hiring of a secretary or poring through all your posts. You claim that at the time I made my original statement you knew that you had evidence that my statement was false. All I’ve asked is for you to tell me what that evidence is.


Lemmie wrote:Your last sentence explains your real intention. This is not a thread about how important it is to clarify who has the burden of proof, is it?

check your PMs, you jerk.


I don't recall any kind of rule that restricts me to having one "real" intention. I think it's been clear from my first question to you that I wanted to find out the basis for your claim that my statement was "incorrect" so that I could correct it and then get on with my argument. When you asked me to the my derail to a new thread, I had to think about whether the topic was worth starting a new thread. I concluded that it was because of the larger issues presented by the burden of proof issue. So, I had at least two intents -- and both of them are real.

As for being a jerk, Res ipsa loquitur.
​“The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated communist, but people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists.”

― Hannah Arendt, The Origins of Totalitarianism, 1951
_Lemmie
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Re: Burden of Proof

Post by _Lemmie »

So, I had at least two intents --

only one of which made it into the title. :rolleyes: Go figure.

As for being a jerk, Res ipsa loquitur.

So... that would make you.... The Accidental Jerk?
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
I crack myself up.

You're right, I withdraw the jerk comment.
_Res Ipsa
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Re: Burden of Proof

Post by _Res Ipsa »

Now you’re going to quibble about the Title? Well, I was going to call it “Res Ipsa and Lemmie Have An Excruciatingly Tedious Argument Over Whether The Burden Of Proof Justfies Nondisclosure Of A Piece Of Evidence And Res Ipsa’s Random Musings On The Role Of Burden of Proof in the Structure of Arguments,” but the damn thing wouldn’t fit in that little blank.
:lol:

Seriously, I appreciate the kind gesture. :smile:

Just call me Res Ipsa Jerquitor....
​“The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated communist, but people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists.”

― Hannah Arendt, The Origins of Totalitarianism, 1951
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