Philo Sofee wrote: I ask for valid evidence personally....... having beliefs is irrelevant to what is reality or not. Most have false beliefs. It must be justifiable in my opinion.
Why must a belief be justified, and how could you do it even if you wanted to? IE; I have a belief in the superiority of the color Blue. But I have nothing against other colors. What possible justification is there for preferring the color Blue?
You seem to have a very narrow view of the word 'belief', which restricts it to the expression of purely personal preferences. That is not a problem in itself, since if all you mean by saying 'I believe the colour blue is superior' is 'I like that colour best', your belief is justified by your mere statement.
If on the other hand you mean 'I believe the colour blue is superior in attracting a particular species of insect to settle on a painted surface', it is perfectly reasonable to ask you to provide justification for that in the form of the results of experiments on the relative numbers of insects attracted by of surfaces of different colours.
Similarly, if I say 'I believe Donald Trump pays all the tax he is obliged to pay', that belief could be justified by showing us his tax statement ... oh, wait ...
Zadok: I did not have a faith crisis. I discovered that the Church was having a truth crisis. Maksutov: That's the problem with this supernatural stuff, it doesn't really solve anything. It's a placeholder for ignorance.
From what we know so far insects see more of the color blue(Ultraviolet) than humans do. I don't know if they prefer it to other colors however. But back to Christianity. What people choose to believe is a right, and is none of my business, as long as they allow me the same right. You don't have to substantiate your beliefs to me. That being said I am constantly fascinated to learn what other people believe.
The CCC wrote:From what we know so far insects see more of the color blue(Ultraviolet) than humans do. I don't know if they prefer it to other colors however.
I have to say I do not find that relevant to the discussion.
The CCC wrote:What people choose to believe is a right, and is none of my business, as long as they allow me the same right.
That's fine so long as their belief has no practical consequences whatsoever outside their own head. But since we are talking about religious belief, how many religious beliefs do you know that have no practical consequences for the rest of society?
The CCC wrote:You don't have to substantiate your beliefs to me.
Again, only if your beliefs stay strictly inside your own head. If on the other hand your beliefs suggest that (e.g.) gay people should not be allowed to marry, they are my concern, and as a citizen I am going to say - 'Hey! What gives you the right to say that?' And if you have no answer to give, I am going to call you out on that and point out that your beliefs are not worthy of much respect.
Zadok: I did not have a faith crisis. I discovered that the Church was having a truth crisis. Maksutov: That's the problem with this supernatural stuff, it doesn't really solve anything. It's a placeholder for ignorance.
I have no problem with any consenting adults getting legally married. If we are trying to force any religious organization to solemnize that wedding. Then I have problem. IE: We have no right to legally force a Shinto Priest in his Temple to solemnize our non-Shinto wedding.
The CCC wrote:I have no problem with any consenting adults getting legally married. If we are trying to force any religious organization to solemnize that wedding. Then I have problem. IE: We have no right to legally force a Shinto Priest in his Temple to solemnize our non-Shinto wedding.
Can you point to any significant political group that advocates that any given religious sect should be obliged to conduct any ceremony whatsoever - marriage, funerals, or anything else?
No, there isn't one. All that is being sought is the right to have unions legally recognised at a national level, just like man-woman marriage.
All that stuff about 'forcing gay marriages into the Temple' (and so on) is a non-issue. I don't know why Mormons keep on raising it.
Zadok: I did not have a faith crisis. I discovered that the Church was having a truth crisis. Maksutov: That's the problem with this supernatural stuff, it doesn't really solve anything. It's a placeholder for ignorance.
If we're talking about significant groups. Then Mormon's are the least of your problems. We comprise a minute percentage of one percent of the population world wide.