Drumpf on First Amendment

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_Gunnar
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Re: Drumpf on First Amendment

Post by _Gunnar »

EAllusion wrote:Obama never said anything that even ballparks Trump's comments media regulation. It would've been a smart strategy to do so, as Republicans would've died of a collective aneurysm if he had made the same comments as Trump. It's basically the party of egregious double standards now. Neither did GWB or Clinton. In fact, you'd have to go back to WWI era Wilson to find a president endorsing something so hostile to first amendment rights. Trump's comments fit directly within his repeated administration for authoritarian dictators and the actions they have taken in their own countries, though. It isn't surprising that an avowed fan of Erodogan and Putin would advocate doing exactly what they did. Calling illiberal anti-Americanism "disruption" like a 3rd rate techbro doesn't excuse it.

I think you intended to say "admiration" instead of "administration."

And I agree that his obvious admiration for these tyrants is very troubling.
No precept or claim is more likely to be false than one that can only be supported by invoking the claim of Divine authority for it--no matter who or what claims such authority.

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_Doctor CamNC4Me
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Re: Drumpf on First Amendment

Post by _Doctor CamNC4Me »

Which one is worse? Which one actually resulted in destruction of property and the restriction of the press?

You are hereby commanded to destroy the printing press from whence issues the Nauvoo Expositor, and pi the type of said printing establishment in the street, and burn all the Expositors and libelous handbills found in said establishment; and if resistance be offered to your execution of this order by the owner or others, demolish the house: and if anyone threatens you or the Mayor or the officers of the city, arrest those who threaten you, and fail not to execute this order without delay, and make due return thereon.

By order of the City Council,
JOSEPH SMITH, MAYOR


Network news has become so partisan, distorted and fake that licenses must be challenged and, if appropriate, revoked. Not fair to public!

Donald J. Trump
Dotard
In the face of madness, rationality has no power - Xiao Wang, US historiographer, 2287 AD.

Every record...falsified, every book rewritten...every statue...has been renamed or torn down, every date...altered...the process is continuing...minute by minute. History has stopped. Nothing exists except an endless present in which the Ideology is always right.
_The CCC
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Re: Drumpf on First Amendment

Post by _The CCC »

At the time the First Amendment was defined as only applying to the Federal Government. by the way I never said I thought the destruction of the Expositor press was a good idea. It wasn't, but it was legal at the time.
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Re: Drumpf on First Amendment

Post by _Doctor CamNC4Me »

The CCC wrote:At the time the First Amendment was defined as only applying to the Federal Government. by the way I never said I thought the destruction of the Expositor press was a good idea. It wasn't, but it was legal at the time.


Destroying the press was legal? You should at least be good enough to provide a reference to the FAIRMormon garbage you're parroting.

http://blog.mrm.org/2007/10/dallin-oaks ... s-illegal/

“The characterization of the printing press as a nuisance, and its subsequent destruction, is another matter. The common law authorities on nuisance abatement generally, and especially those on summary abatement, were emphatic in declaring that abatement must be limited by the necessities of the case, and that no wanton or unnecessary destruction of property could be permitted. A party guilty of excess was liable in damages for trespass to the party injured…. there was no legal justification in 1844 for the destruction of the Expositor press as a nuisance. Its libelous, provocative, and perhaps obscene output may well have been a public and a private nuisance, but the evil article was not the press itself but the way in which it was being used. Consequently, those who caused or accomplished its destruction were liable for money damages in an action of trespass.”

(Utah Law Review, Summer 1965, pages 890-891)


So. Let's not play word games and insinuate that destroying, I dunno, copies of the Expositor is the same as trespassing and destruction of property.

Funnily enough Dallin H. Oaks in describing the content of the Expositor's papers wrote (re-posted from above for emphasis):

“There was no legal justification in 1844 for the destruction of the Expositor press as a nuisance. Its libelous, provocative, and perhaps obscene output may well have been a public and a private nuisance, but the evil article was not the press itself but the way in which it was being used.”

And all they did was write the truth, in that Joseph Smith did, in fact, marry other men's wives, teenage girls, mother-daughter combos, sisters, and did, in fact, consummate these relationships.

Make peace with the truth, The CCC. These are facts and they're confirmed by the Church itself.

- Doc
In the face of madness, rationality has no power - Xiao Wang, US historiographer, 2287 AD.

Every record...falsified, every book rewritten...every statue...has been renamed or torn down, every date...altered...the process is continuing...minute by minute. History has stopped. Nothing exists except an endless present in which the Ideology is always right.
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Re: Drumpf on First Amendment

Post by _Doctor CamNC4Me »

The CCC wrote:At the time the First Amendment was defined as only applying to the Federal Government. by the way I never said I thought the destruction of the Expositor press was a good idea. It wasn't, but it was legal at the time.


Also, you know what? You just can't circumvent due process, even back in 1844.

Dallin H. Oaks even admits that the Expositor was demolished, on orders of Smith, without the benefit of due process of law:

”[Smith] urged that the newspaper be declared a nuisance and destroyed without judicial process, a procedure supported by Blackstone. . . . John Taylor, a city councilman and high-ranking church leader, agreed, saying that the Expositor ‘stinks in the nose of every honest man.’ . . .

“[Smith] won over most of the council. They passed an ordinance declaring the newspaper a public nuisance and issued an order to the mayor to have it abated. Joseph Smith, acting as mayor, ordered the city marshal to destroy the newspaper and press without delay and instructed the major general of the Nauvoo Legion to have the militia assist. Shortly [thereafter], citizens and legionnaires marched to the 'Expositor' office and smashed the press, scattering the type as they did so.”

(Dallin H. Oaks and Marvin S. Hill, "Carthage Conspiracy: The Trial of the Accused Assassins of Joseph Smith" [Urbana, Illinois: University of Illinois Press, 1976], p. 15)

This was a legal matter, not a criminal matter. In fact, the fact that the militia was used is insane beyond belief.

- Doc
In the face of madness, rationality has no power - Xiao Wang, US historiographer, 2287 AD.

Every record...falsified, every book rewritten...every statue...has been renamed or torn down, every date...altered...the process is continuing...minute by minute. History has stopped. Nothing exists except an endless present in which the Ideology is always right.
_The CCC
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Re: Drumpf on First Amendment

Post by _The CCC »

Nothing to do with FAIRMORMON.
SEE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s9Cm5ocVXkU

Who is Floyd Abrams.
SEE https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Floyd_Abrams
_Doctor CamNC4Me
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Re: Drumpf on First Amendment

Post by _Doctor CamNC4Me »

Again. You posted that earlier, and you're not pointing to the relevant point in the video that abates your assertion. It's just lazy and irresponsible. Make the case that it was lawful for Joseph Smith to send his MILITIA to circumvent due process and destroy the press and if there were any resistance to destroy the house, too.

Go on. I'll wait.

I challenge you to read this excellent summation from RFM on the issue and the legality of it all; all of it sourced by the way:

http://exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,1530070

There is just NO legal footing upon which you're right. At all. It's foolish and an attempt to misdirect.

- Doc
In the face of madness, rationality has no power - Xiao Wang, US historiographer, 2287 AD.

Every record...falsified, every book rewritten...every statue...has been renamed or torn down, every date...altered...the process is continuing...minute by minute. History has stopped. Nothing exists except an endless present in which the Ideology is always right.
_The CCC
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Re: Drumpf on First Amendment

Post by _The CCC »

RFM is not a trustworthy site for anything about Mormonism.
_Doctor CamNC4Me
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Re: Drumpf on First Amendment

Post by _Doctor CamNC4Me »

The CCC wrote:RFM is not a trustworthy site for anything about Mormonism.


Of course you didn't read it. Everything was sourced, but you're so entrenched you get hung up by the site.

If you applied your logic to links then you wouldn't be posting a YouTube video.

Just read the link and check the sources.

- Doc

Image
In the face of madness, rationality has no power - Xiao Wang, US historiographer, 2287 AD.

Every record...falsified, every book rewritten...every statue...has been renamed or torn down, every date...altered...the process is continuing...minute by minute. History has stopped. Nothing exists except an endless present in which the Ideology is always right.
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