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 Post subject: Ta-Nehisi Coates spittin' fire
PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2017 4:51 pm 
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If you haven't read his piece in the October Issue of The Atlantic yet, you ought to:

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/ar ... es/537909/

There is some razor sharp criticism in here. It's so well argued and written that even if you disagree with every word of it, you should be familiarize yourself with its contents. This is going to be quickly viewed as major work of opinion journalism that will be referred to for years to come.


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 Post subject: Re: Ta-Nahesi Coats spittin' fire
PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2017 4:53 pm 
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Yes! I'm not all the way through it yet, but it is incredibly thought provoking.

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 Post subject: Re: Ta-Nahesi Coats spittin' fire
PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2017 4:56 pm 
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Umm, you forgot to tell us its subject matter so we can decide whether it's worth our time to read it or not.

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 Post subject: Re: Ta-Nahesi Coats spittin' fire
PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2017 5:05 pm 
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To lay my cards on the table, I do think he is broadly correct. I will have to reread the essay a few times to sort out particulars of where I think there are weak points in his argument. Overall, I think his main theme is generally correct and his critiques of other people's arguments are right on the money. He's not saying anything I haven't seen argued elsewhere, but he says it with a piercing clarity that no one touches.

He deploys his considerable rhetorical skills to make his case for the most part, but I think his arguments are strongly vindicated by data that he only scratches the surface of.


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 Post subject: Re: Ta-Nahesi Coats spittin' fire
PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2017 5:09 pm 
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Dr. Shades wrote:
Umm, you forgot to tell us its subject matter so we can decide whether it's worth our time to read it or not.


You'll just have to take the risk or decide that it's not worth your time. The subject is world famous author, journalist, and public intellectual Ta-Nehisi Coats is spittin' fire in a major American publication and that the piece will likely be famous for many years to come. If that doesn't interest you, move on.


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 Post subject: Re: Ta-Nehesi Coats spittin' fire
PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2017 5:13 pm 
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Well, since you can't be bothered to abide by Dr. Shades' policy, and you've done nothing to induce any sort of interest other than saying it's really neat I'll pass.

That's on you, homeslice.

- Doc

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 Post subject: Re: Ta-Nehesi Coats spittin' fire
PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2017 5:19 pm 
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If you are, in fact, too lazy to click a link and read an article title, his main argument is that Trump is a white supremacist and the the ascendancy of Trump presidency is grounded in racial resentment, expression of white power and identity, and backlash against the election of a black man to the presidency. There's more to it than that, but that's the best gist I can come up with right now.. This is not a unique position. Many people argue this. What is unique is the stunning writing ability he puts on display making that argument.


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 Post subject: Re: Ta-Nehesi Coats spittin' fire
PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2017 5:23 pm 
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Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:
Well, since you can't be bothered to abide by Dr. Shades' policy, and you've done nothing to induce any sort of interest other than saying it's really neat I'll pass.

That's on you, homeslice.

- Doc


Go for it. I think I said enough for a person to understand whether they want to click or not. It helps if you know who Ta-Nehesi Coates is, but he's famous enough that I don't feel the need to spell it out. Shades policy is based on his idiosyncrasies that are silly and inconsistent. I'm within the principle of it. I don't begrudge anyone for not wanting to read it. I'm offering something. If my description and crediblity of a linker is not enough, who cares? For some that will be enough. I also know that there are posters here who almost certainly have already read it and this thread serves as a place to discuss if they so wish.

If it's any consolation, I'm not interested in your thoughts on it. That, interestingly enough, is on you.


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 Post subject: Re: Ta-Nehesi Coates spittin' fire
PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2017 5:52 pm 
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If you aren't interested in my thoughts, uh, you're doing a great job of showing it.

In the interest of good will, and now that you bothered to type a few keystrokes into the forum I'll get outside of my echo chamber and read the article. Also, I think you're overcompensating.

- Doc

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 Post subject: Re: Ta-Nehesi Coates spittin' fire
PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2017 6:09 pm 
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So. The first thing I had to do what figure out who Ta-Nehisi Coates is. Apparently he's famous. So I'm definitely missing out!

I googled his name because my library is closed. Lessee... What does Ta-Nehisi Coates write about....

http://catalog.slcpl.org/search/searchr ... searchid=1

Huh. He writes about Black people being oppressed and two Black Panther graphic novels! Neat.

Well, let's see what else he writes about:

https://www.google.com/search?q=Ta-Nehi ... e&ie=UTF-8

Quote:
'His Ideology Is White Supremacy': Ta-Nehisi Coates On Donald Trump
NPR · 15 hours ago

Ta-Nehisi Coates and the Glowing Amulet of Identity Politics
The Weekly Standard · 4 hours ago

Ta-Nehisi Coates's "The First White President" Is Required Reading, No Matter How Sick You Are of DFT
The Stranger · 5 hours ago


Huh. Well, at least he's doing well for himself! The median home value in Prospect Lefferts Gardens where he lives is $1,216,700. Good for him!

Anyway. Because he's famous and I have no idea what he writes about, maybe atheism and feminism because that's on his Wikipedia page?

https://www.theatlantic.com/author/ta-nehisi-coates/

The First White President
The Lost Cause Rides Again
How Insightful Is Dear White People?
Barack Obama Is Okay With the Criticism
‘Surprised Like Everybody Else’: Obama on the Election of Donald Trump
'It’s What We Do More Than What We Say': Obama on Race, Identity, and the Way Forward
‘Better Is Good’: Obama on Reparations, Civil Rights, and the Art of the Possible
'The Filter ... Is Powerful': Obama on Race, Media, and What It Took to Win
The Making of a Black President
My President Was Black

Huh. I'm starting to notice a theme with this writer... Well, anyway, this is distracting me from the Patriots - Chiefs so I better get to the article.

Brb.

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 Post subject: Re: Ta-Nehesi Coates spittin' fire
PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2017 6:29 pm 
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Wow. This is a lot to unpack. Phew. Imma gonna have to have a running commentary. I really feel like I missed out on this author due to his immense fame and gravitas. What have I been doing with my life?! I'm ashamed.

Quote:
IT IS INSUFFICIENT TO STATE the obvious of Donald Trump: that he is a white man who would not be president were it not for this fact.

That's an odd statement. There are a lot of white men who haven't made it to the office. And correct me if I'm wrong, but we just had 8 years with a competent black man at the helm. But one has to conded the point if we're talking about a woman or an atheist, no? You know. Since the author is an atheist and a feminist. Does he care about Latinos? Or an Asians? Hindus? Russians? Probably not.

With one immediate exception, Trump’s predecessors made their way to high office through the passive power of whiteness—that bloody heirloom which cannot ensure mastery of all events but can conjure a tailwind for most of them.

Oh. White privilege.

http://thehill.com/homenews/house/30648 ... in-history

Quote:
The new Congress set to take office in January is slated to be the most racially diverse in history.

Record numbers of Hispanics, African-Americans, Asian-Americans and women of color will serve in the next legislative session
.

You'll note us Utahns voted for Mia Love, a black woman, to represent us in the 4th district. So...


Land theft and human plunder cleared the grounds for Trump’s forefathers and barred others from it. Once upon the field, these men became soldiers, statesmen, and scholars; held court in Paris; presided at Princeton; advanced into the Wilderness and then into the White House. Their individual triumphs made this exclusive party seem above America’s founding sins, and it was forgotten that the former was in fact bound to the latter, that all their victories had transpired on cleared grounds.

You mean what humans have done throughout the entirety of their collective history? This dude's insight is brilliant! I'm ashamed to admit I couldn't have figured out humans do what humans do, and they did it in the Americas, too. Just absolutely stunning observation,
Mr. Tahiti.


No such elegant detachment can be attributed to Donald Trump—a president who, more than any other, has made the awful inheritance explicit.

Hard to argue with that one. DJT is a turd of the highest order.


To be continued because I'm totally out of my echo chamber making an effort to be self-loathing open-minded, tolerant, and diverse.

- Doc

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 Post subject: Re: Ta-Nehesi Coates spittin' fire
PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2017 7:01 pm 
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Quote:
His political career began in advocacy of birtherism

DJT has been dabbling in politics since at least the 80's. ____, you can be a real estate developer in New York without being involved in politics. This is a patently absurd statement.

, that modern recasting of the old American precept that black people are not fit to be citizens of the country they built.

Oh. I see. It was a setup for some race baiting. Well. Whatever. It seems to be working out for the author to, you know, say ____ like this.

But long before birtherism, Trump had made his worldview clear. He fought to keep blacks out of his buildings, according to the U.S. government; called for the death penalty for the eventually exonerated Central Park Five; and railed against “lazy” black employees. “Black guys counting my money! I hate it,” Trump was once quoted as saying.

Where did DJT get his worldview from? Why did he develop this attitude toward the common black man? How does this square with his subsequent business and personal relationships with blacks and non-whites where they say things about him that paint him in a different light?

“The only kind of people I want counting my money are short guys that wear yarmulkes every day.”

Well, clearly he's had a good relationship with the Jewish community for a long time. Heck, his daughter converted! Mazel tov!

After his cabal of conspiracy theorists forced Barack Obama to present his birth certificate, Trump demanded the president’s college grades (offering $5 million in exchange for them), insisting that Obama was not intelligent enough to have gone to an Ivy League school, and that his acclaimed memoir, Dreams From My Father, had been ghostwritten by a white man, Bill Ayers.

Bill Ayers straight up claimed he wrote it, said he could be quoted on it, and joked around about getting help with splitting the royalties. Whether that's true or not... I have no idea. Funnily enough I wouldn't have known about this tidbit had Mr. Tahiti not mentioned it.
Good job!


To be continued...

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 Post subject: Re: Ta-Nehesi Coates spittin' fire
PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2017 7:17 pm 
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“The only kind of people I want counting my money are short guys that wear yarmulkes every day.”

Seriously? That's how people on the EC talk for gods sake, the Jews talk about themselves in that regard. Jewish doctors, lawyers, accountants. They're proud of their chosen professions, their education, and their heritage.

Good hell. This is what happens when folks don't understand the influence of culture outside of the one they themselves inhabit. It's absurd that this would be used as some kind of evidence of racism.

God this world is turning into politically correct homogenized mush. Don't anyone ever come home with me, you'd die of shock at the stuff you heard. One of the things I love most about the EC is that it's so culturally rich and diverse.

:rolleyes:

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 Post subject: Re: Ta-Nehesi Coates spittin' fire
PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2017 7:24 pm 
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Quote:
It is often said that Trump has no real ideology, which is not true—his ideology is white supremacy, in all its truculent and sanctimonious power.

Bull. ____ ing. ____. It's populism. Jesus this guy is a one trick pony.

Trump inaugurated his campaign by casting himself as the defender of white maidenhood against Mexican “rapists,”

Is that how Trump framed it? Who are the primary victims of illegal immigrant rapists? I don't suppose the author could be bothered to ____ out some stats? Or is this what he does. Just say things? No wonder EAllusion loves him!

only to be later alleged by multiple accusers, and by his own proud words, to be a sexual violator himself. White supremacy has always had a perverse sexual tint. Trump’s rise was shepherded by Steve Bannon, a man who mocks his white male critics as “cucks.”

Yeah, they're turd monsters. Totally agree.

The word, derived from cuckold, is specifically meant to debase by fear and fantasy—the target is so weak that he would submit to the humiliation of having his white wife lie with black men.

That's. That's not literally not true. Literally.

https://www.google.com/search?q=define% ... e&ie=UTF-8


That the slur cuck casts white men as victims aligns with the dicta of whiteness, which seek to alchemize one’s profligate sins into virtue.

I'm fairly certain there are cuckolds of all races and ethnicities. This guy is ____ ing racist.

So it was with Virginia slaveholders claiming that Britain sought to make slaves of them. So it was with marauding Klansmen organized against alleged rapes and other outrages. So it was with a candidate who called for a foreign power to hack his opponent’s email and who now, as president, is claiming to be the victim of “the single greatest witch hunt of a politician in American history.”

Something something mixed themes something white people. Ok.

In Trump, white supremacists see one of their own. Only grudgingly did Trump denounce the Ku Klux Klan and David Duke, one of its former grand wizards

I think this is a true statement.

—and after the clashes between white supremacists and counterprotesters in Charlottesville, Virginia, in August, Duke in turn praised Trump’s contentious claim that “both sides” were responsible for the violence.

This is a true statement. No doubt.


To be continued because I'm reeeeeally making an effort to figure out why this particular author gets EAllusion so hot and bothered...

- Doc

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 Post subject: Re: Ta-Nehesi Coates spittin' fire
PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2017 7:26 pm 
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Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:

To be continued because I'm reeeeeally making an effort to figure out why this particular author gets EAllusion so hot and bothered...

- Doc


Enjoy yourself. People are so ____ up I can't even believe it. :eek:

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 Post subject: Re: Ta-Nehesi Coates spittin' fire
PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2017 7:28 pm 
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Jersey Girl wrote:
“The only kind of people I want counting my money are short guys that wear yarmulkes every day.”

Seriously? That's how people on the EC talk for gods sake, the Jews talk about themselves in that regard. Jewish doctors, lawyers, accountants. They're proud of their chosen professions, their education, and their heritage.

Good hell. This is what happens when folks don't understand the influence of culture outside of the one they themselves inhabit. It's absurd that this would be used as some kind of evidence of racism.

God this world is turning into politically correct homogenized mush. Don't anyone ever come home with me, you'd die of shock at the stuff you heard. One of the things I love most about the EC is that it's so culturally rich and diverse.

:rolleyes:


It's almost like someone is in an echo chamber...

- Doc

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 Post subject: Re: Ta-Nehesi Coates spittin' fire
PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2017 7:42 pm 
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Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:
Jersey Girl wrote:
“The only kind of people I want counting my money are short guys that wear yarmulkes every day.”

Seriously? That's how people on the EC talk for gods sake, the Jews talk about themselves in that regard. Jewish doctors, lawyers, accountants. They're proud of their chosen professions, their education, and their heritage.

Good hell. This is what happens when folks don't understand the influence of culture outside of the one they themselves inhabit. It's absurd that this would be used as some kind of evidence of racism.

God this world is turning into politically correct homogenized mush. Don't anyone ever come home with me, you'd die of shock at the stuff you heard. One of the things I love most about the EC is that it's so culturally rich and diverse.

:rolleyes:


It's almost like someone is in an echo chamber...

- Doc


Well I hope you don't mean me! I solid gold money back guarantee you that if I were sitting in a deli in Manhattan and the person I was with said to the effect "Yeah, he got him a good Jew lawyer to fight the case" and the people sitting across the way overheard the conversation, they'd give a nod of approval and say "Smaht! Smaht!".

For god sakes, these aren't ethnic slurs. They're a tip of the hat. God, I swear.

:rolleyes:

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 Post subject: Re: Ta-Nehesi Coates spittin' fire
PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2017 7:45 pm 
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Quote:
To Trump, whiteness is neither notional nor symbolic but is the very core of his power.

This is 100% projection on the author's part. You could literally type:

To Mr. Tahiti, blackness is neither notional nor symbolic but is the very core of his power.

And you'd be describing him to a T.


In this, Trump is not singular. But whereas his forebears carried whiteness like an ancestral talisman, Trump cracked the glowing amulet open, releasing its eldritch energies. The repercussions are striking: Trump is the first president to have served in no public capacity before ascending to his perch.

Lolol. This is too rich. You mean like being an absentee state senator prepared Obama for the office. Lol. This guy.

But more telling, Trump is also the first president to have publicly affirmed that his daughter is a “piece of ass.” The mind seizes trying to imagine a black man extolling the virtues of sexual assault on tape (“When you’re a star, they let you do it”), fending off multiple accusations of such assaults, immersed in multiple lawsuits for allegedly fraudulent business dealings, exhorting his followers to violence, and then strolling into the White House.

What? Is he upset because black men can't act like Trump. Setting the bar pretty ____ ing high there, Mr. Tahiti.

But that is the point of white supremacy—to ensure that that which all others achieve with maximal effort, white people (particularly white men) achieve with minimal qualification.

K. I don't know. If it isn't white supremacy then it's the patriarchy. If isn't the patriarchy is heteronormacy. If it's not that it's something else. What is he getting at?
What's the solution? Why hasn't EAllusion given his job and home to a minority? The St. Louis BLM what's-her-face suggested he should do that. Wouldn't that be helping to remove white privilege and empowering the oppressed? I bet you EAllusion would scoff at the notion of giving away his privilege and ability to make a living.


Barack Obama delivered to black people the hoary message that if they work twice as hard as white people, anything is possible. But Trump’s counter is persuasive: Work half as hard as black people, and even more is possible.

How does one actually do that? You know. Actually work 2x as hard as a white person? Because if you can't quantify that statement, then you're just saying inflammatory stupid ____ that furthers our racial divide.


To be continued!

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Last edited by Doctor CamNC4Me on Thu Sep 07, 2017 7:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Ta-Nehesi Coates spittin' fire
PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2017 7:46 pm 
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Jersey Girl wrote:
Well I hope you don't mean me! I solid gold money back guarantee you that if I were sitting in a deli in Manhattan and the person I was with said to the effect "Yeah, he got him a good Jew lawyer to fight the case" and the people sitting across the way overheard the conversation, they'd give a nod of approval and say "Smaht! Smaht!".

For god sakes, these aren't ethnic slurs. They're a tip of the hat. God, I swear.

:rolleyes:


Nah. EAllusion claimed I'm in an echo chamber or whatever. An echo chamber of the mind.

I ____ you not.

- Doc

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 Post subject: Re: Ta-Nehesi Coates spittin' fire
PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2017 7:47 pm 
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Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:
Jersey Girl wrote:
Well I hope you don't mean me! I solid gold money back guarantee you that if I were sitting in a deli in Manhattan and the person I was with said to the effect "Yeah, he got him a good Jew lawyer to fight the case" and the people sitting across the way overheard the conversation, they'd give a nod of approval and say "Smaht! Smaht!".

For god sakes, these aren't ethnic slurs. They're a tip of the hat. God, I swear.

:rolleyes:


Nah. EAllusion claimed I'm in an echo chamber or whatever. An echo chamber of the mind.

I ____ you not.

- Doc


No you aren't. Your life experiences alone wouldn't allow it.

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 Post subject: Re: Ta-Nehesi Coates spittin' fire
PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2017 8:43 pm 
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Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:
Huh. I'm starting to notice a theme with this writer...


Ya think? Do you think that if you know who he is, you might have some clue what one of his essays in the Atlantic might be about? That why I suggested my description contained enough breadcrumbs for people to have a sense of what they might be in for. You seem to try to rib my description of him as famous, but he is one of the most famous public intellectuals in the country.

Quote:
Bull. ____ ing. ____. It's populism.


Go ahead and explain Trump's populism for me. I understand both late 19th century American populism and the basis for claims that Trump was a right-wing populist in a sense that is ideologically coherent. Neither actually fit well. Trump as an ideological populist appealing to economic anxiety is a false, lazy way people sometimes turn away from Trump riding a tide of racial antagonism. But I'm all ears for you to explain it to me. As a bit of friendly advice, I would point out there is a anti-elitist posturing sense of populism that does fit what Trump is, but that isn't political ideology. It's a political style. It provides no abstract set of principles or template to derive policies or organize power.

Quote:
That's. That's not literally not true. Literally.
I'd recommend you read up on cuck porn more to understand this, but you're in for some landmine websearches. "Cuck" as it is used by and metatasized from the alt-right specifically invokes men who fetishize their lovers having sex with strong, virile black men usually with a the partner portrayed weak and pathetic by comparison. This is by far the most popular variant of cuckold sexual fantasy and the idea of it was used as a way of creating a metaphor for liberal whites selling out by desiring to be f**** by minorities. That's what the insults "cuck" and "cuckservative" specifically invoke in addition to their generic meaning. It's used almost as an exact equivalent for "race traitor," but in a trollish way, by alt-rightists like Bannon. It's not coincidental that the term was popularized by hardcore racists. You are literally wrong. Literally.

Then you have the chutzpah to call him a racist because you think he doesn't realize that cuckold also can generically refer to male who is the victim of infidelity. Like one of America's finest writers forgot to crack open a dictionary, but you're here to set the record straight.

A lot of your post goes on like this point by point, but you were so strident about this one that I thought I should point out how wrong you are.


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