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 Post subject: Re: Can you be "pro" whatever your race is, and not be racis
PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2017 6:46 am 
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Jersey Girl wrote:
Explain how racism makes logical sense, please.

Sure, and thank you for your sincere inquiry.

Racism, for the purposes of my explanation, is the prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against someone of a different race based on the belief that one's own race is superior

When one person believes (rightfully or not) that they are superior to another person then prejudice,etc. is certainly a reasonable by-product. For example, one can simply observe how Democrats/Libs on this board consider themselves to be of a superior intellect and superior morality than the Repubs/Conservs on this board - and because of this their prejudice, discrimination, and antagonism manifests in their postings.....and yes, this cuts both ways but that is the point. In other words, racism is no different than any other excuse a person(s) would use to hold themself in a position of superiority and then act accordingly.

Now, could this feeling of superiority be intrinsic to the human condition? social anchoring? normative influence? informational influence? group affinity? - yeah, probabay all of those, but there are certainly several avenues that have and can explain why "superiority" has permeated human existence throughout recorded history. Even our Nation's own doctrine of "equality" is held as superior to other more oppressive forms of society, and as such we are prejudicial to the point of military invasion.

So, now on the topic of skin color and other associated racial features. Obviously this is a dramatic characteristic(s) in human beings that is readily discerned as one being different from another - tantamount to male and female. Even if trying to dismiss these differences vis-à-vis tribal beginnings, such a glaring difference between oneself and another is unavoidable. So, when circumstances result in a clash or controversy among these differences, one will inevitably impose a "value" in order to find resolution.

Think about modern house pets, like dogs and cats. They have evolved based upon this same visual value system - cute and fuzzy prevails just as much as demeanor and "safe around children"....regardless of how subjective you may want to consider these values, they exist nonetheless. My dog i adopted from the pound is superior to the dog i left behind. The extrapolation is logical from that point on.

Anyway, bottom-line is that racism is biologically induced and therefore is a logical result of human life.

Racism is 'hardwired' into the human brain - and people can be prejudiced without knowing it

Brain scans have proved that interactions with people of other ethnic backgrounds set off reactions that may be completely unknown to our conscious selves.
The finding may force researchers to think about racism in entirely new ways.
It's possible, the researchers say, that even right-thinking, 'egalitarian' people could harbour racist attitudes without knowing.
The chemicals involved in perceiving ethnic backgrounds overlap with those for processing emotion and making decisions, according to new research.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/ ... z4rzpMLf8K

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 Post subject: Re: Can you be "pro" whatever your race is, and not be racis
PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2017 11:07 am 
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Human's are not normally color blind. Any value we put to those colors is a learned response.


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 Post subject: Re: Can you be "pro" whatever your race is, and not be racis
PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2017 11:19 am 
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The CCC wrote:
Human's are not normally color blind. Any value we put to those colors is a learned response.

Uh. That's exactly what subgenius just posted. But thanks for your devastatingly nuanced insight that totally means something. Cool.

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 Post subject: Re: Can you be "pro" whatever your race is, and not be racis
PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2017 11:31 am 
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IIRC This is what he claimed.
Anyway, bottom-line is that racism is biologically induced and therefore is a logical result of human life.

Racism is 'hardwired' into the human brain - and people can be prejudiced without knowing it

Brain scans have proved that interactions with people of other ethnic backgrounds set off reactions that may be completely unknown to our conscious selves.
The finding may force researchers to think about racism in entirely new ways.
It's possible, the researchers say, that even right-thinking, 'egalitarian' people could harbour racist attitudes without knowing.
The chemicals involved in perceiving ethnic backgrounds overlap with those for processing emotion and making decisions, according to new research.


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 Post subject: Re: Can you be "pro" whatever your race is, and not be racis
PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2017 12:52 pm 
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subgenius wrote:
Jersey Girl wrote:

Explain how racism makes logical sense, please.


Racism is 'hardwired' into the human brain - and people can be prejudiced without knowing it

Brain scans have proved that interactions with people of other ethnic backgrounds set off reactions that may be completely unknown to our conscious selves.

I completely agree with the science behind this. From a survival aspect, it absolutely makes sense. Critters are generally predisposed to favor similar-looking members of their own species ('tribe') over something unlike themselves from a "Will it eat me?" standpoint, if nothing else.

But there would seem to be some differences between this biological reaction, and the construct of racism as commonly recognized. I'm interpreting Jersey Girl's question as not quite answered by your response.


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 Post subject: Re: Can you be "pro" whatever your race is, and not be racis
PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2017 1:01 pm 
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The CCC wrote:
IIRC This is what he claimed.
Anyway, bottom-line is that racism is biologically induced and therefore is a logical result of human life.

Racism is 'hardwired' into the human brain - and people can be prejudiced without knowing it

Brain scans have proved that interactions with people of other ethnic backgrounds set off reactions that may be completely unknown to our conscious selves.
The finding may force researchers to think about racism in entirely new ways.
It's possible, the researchers say, that even right-thinking, 'egalitarian' people could harbour racist attitudes without knowing.
The chemicals involved in perceiving ethnic backgrounds overlap with those for processing emotion and making decisions, according to new research.

Thank you very much for telling us what he claimed. Fortunately he was kind enough to have already told us what he claimed, so your copy-and-paste of what was already included word-for-word three posts previously was extremely helpful to everyone.

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 Post subject: Re: Can you be "pro" whatever your race is, and not be racis
PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2017 1:23 pm 
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You're welcome.


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 Post subject: Re: Can you be "pro" whatever your race is, and not be racis
PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2017 1:45 pm 
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canpakes wrote:
But there would seem to be some differences between this biological reaction, and the construct of racism as commonly recognized. I'm interpreting Jersey Girl's question as not quite answered by your response.

I clearly stated that it was induced by the biological reaction and also how it is manifest by the psychology of "superiority" - ergo racism is a logical product of human existence. This is not a moral, or value driven, conclusion which ends with racism=good/bad. As you have noted on many occasions, notions of good/bad are subjective and thus not really applicable to Jersey Girl's question. She was simply asking how i could consider racism as logical.

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 Post subject: Re: Can you be "pro" whatever your race is, and not be racis
PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2017 1:49 pm 
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Yes, providing you recognise your ethnicity as the human race.

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 Post subject: Re: Can you be "pro" whatever your race is, and not be racis
PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2017 2:47 pm 
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subgenius wrote:
canpakes wrote:
But there would seem to be some differences between this biological reaction, and the construct of racism as commonly recognized. I'm interpreting Jersey Girl's question as not quite answered by your response.

I clearly stated that it was induced by the biological reaction and also how it is manifest by the psychology of "superiority" - ergo racism is a logical product of human existence. This is not a moral, or value driven, conclusion which ends with racism=good/bad. As you have noted on many occasions, notions of good/bad are subjective and thus not really applicable to Jersey Girl's question. She was simply asking how i could consider racism as logical.

She asked,

"Explain how racism makes logical sense, please".

She didn't ask if it's a logical product of human existence. And the biological or emotional precursors, present in most any critter, are not analogous to feelings of "superiority", which would be a construct of the mind after-the-fact.

Unless you believe that rabbits sit around and consider themselves "superior" to coyotes, whilst they await being chased and eaten by them. Or that coyotes do the same while they contemplate lunch. ; )


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 Post subject: Re: Can you be "pro" whatever your race is, and not be racis
PostPosted: Sat Sep 09, 2017 10:04 am 
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As LDS apologists would point out, you can be pro-the race of Melchizedek and not hate the race of the Levites - even though they are cursed with a subservient priesthood.

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 Post subject: Re: Can you be "pro" whatever your race is, and not be racis
PostPosted: Sat Sep 09, 2017 10:06 am 
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While I'm no apologist LDS, or otherwise, that is a new one to me.


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 Post subject: Re: Can you be "pro" whatever your race is, and not be racis
PostPosted: Sat Sep 09, 2017 4:45 pm 
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canpakes wrote:

She asked,

"Explain how racism makes logical sense, please".

She didn't ask if it's a logical product of human existence. And the biological or emotional precursors, present in most any critter, are not analogous to feelings of "superiority", which would be a construct of the mind after-the-fact.

Unless you believe that rabbits sit around and consider themselves "superior" to coyotes, whilst they await being chased and eaten by them. Or that coyotes do the same while they contemplate lunch. ; )

she asked and i answered.
and it would not make logical sense to consider that a rabbit sits around and thinks about anything, let alone a cross-species hierarchy.

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 Post subject: Re: Can you be "pro" whatever your race is, and not be racis
PostPosted: Sat Sep 09, 2017 4:47 pm 
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subgenius wrote:
canpakes wrote:

She asked,

"Explain how racism makes logical sense, please".

She didn't ask if it's a logical product of human existence. And the biological or emotional precursors, present in most any critter, are not analogous to feelings of "superiority", which would be a construct of the mind after-the-fact.

Unless you believe that rabbits sit around and consider themselves "superior" to coyotes, whilst they await being chased and eaten by them. Or that coyotes do the same while they contemplate lunch. ; )

she asked and i answered.
and it would not make logical sense to consider that a rabbit sits around and thinks about anything, let alone a cross-species hierarchy.

Interesting. You believe that rabbits do not think.


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 Post subject: Re: Can you be "pro" whatever your race is, and not be racis
PostPosted: Sat Sep 09, 2017 4:52 pm 
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canpakes wrote:
Interesting. You believe that rabbits do not think.

Indeed, and it is not a belief per se, just makes logical sense. Do you believe that cogitations may be afoot in the family Leporidae?

might i guess from whence you got such a notion?

Image

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 Post subject: Re: Can you be "pro" whatever your race is, and not be racis
PostPosted: Sat Sep 09, 2017 5:00 pm 
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subgenius wrote:
canpakes wrote:
Interesting. You believe that rabbits do not think.

Indeed, and it is not a belief per se, just makes logical sense. Do you believe that cogitations may be afoot in the family Leporidae?

might i guess from whence you got such a notion?


Science.

Look it up.

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 Post subject: Re: Can you be "pro" whatever your race is, and not be racis
PostPosted: Sat Sep 09, 2017 6:10 pm 
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canpakes wrote:

Science.

Look it up.

Image

Yeah, I found nothing scientific that supports rabbits thinking as it pertains to this context....or any context really.
Maybe you just have a much more loosely defined notion of thinking....less vacuous maybe

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 Post subject: Re: Can you be "pro" whatever your race is, and not be racis
PostPosted: Sat Sep 09, 2017 7:15 pm 
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subgenius wrote:
Yeah, I found nothing scientific that supports rabbits thinking as it pertains to this context....or any context really.

Yes, it would appear correct that rabbits do not think about political issues.

However, research does indeed suggest that something is happening inside of their furry little craniums beyond merely being instinctively reactive.

http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/do ... 1&type=pdf


subgenius wrote:
Maybe you just have a much more loosely defined notion of thinking....less vacuous maybe

Maybe you might revisit your criteria for 'thinking'.

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/2015 ... n-science/


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 Post subject: Re: Can you be "pro" whatever your race is, and not be racis
PostPosted: Mon Sep 11, 2017 1:51 am 
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Maxine Waters wrote:
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Irrelevant and stupid question, as the descendants of the French and Anglo Saxons they ravaged long ago are now doing very well, and are not in any way inconvenienced by or discriminated against by me or my fellow descendants of the Viking terrors. Any debt incurred by the previous behavior of those Vikings has long ago been paid off with interest by contributions to the world and society in general by their descendants.


Were the Viking people required to pay restitution with the first 100-200 years after their raiding and pillaging? How did the descendants of the French and Anglo Saxons start doing well again without big government social welfare programs to lift them back up?

They were going through climate change problems in those days too. The medieval warming period was ending and the Vikings were being frozen out of their settlements in Greenland and the Scandinavian peninsula.

Yet more stupid and irrelevant questions.

As for their climate change problems, unlike the present case, they could not have been caused by human activity, though they may have helped motivate them to engage them to desperate piratical behavior to acquire the means to survive. There is no longer any room for reasonable doubt that today's climate change is human caused. Denying that, given the overwhelming evidence, is every bit as unreasonable as insisting that the world is flat.

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 Post subject: Re: Can you be "pro" whatever your race is, and not be racis
PostPosted: Mon Sep 11, 2017 5:58 am 
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canpakes wrote:
subgenius wrote:
Yeah, I found nothing scientific that supports rabbits thinking as it pertains to this context....or any context really.

Yes, it would appear correct that rabbits do not think about political issues.

However, research does indeed suggest that something is happening inside of their furry little craniums beyond merely being instinctively reactive.

http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/do ... 1&type=pdf

this link is dead or mis-referenced....nothing would load on my cpu, perhaps you could dumb it down for me...i mean i get what "suggest" means, but that is not really a conclusion....its a suggestion...and stills says nothing about rabbits actually thinking. I mean sometimes the universe seems to be suggesting that i stay in bed all day....


canpakes wrote:
subgenius wrote:
Maybe you just have a much more loosely defined notion of thinking....less vacuous maybe

Maybe you might revisit your criteria for 'thinking'.

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/2015 ... n-science/

Nah my criteria is pretty spot on and consistent with modern times....but this link does not support that rabbits actually think, the only mention of rabbits is with regards to them being able to "remember". Still, have not been able to see any science that supports the notion that rabbits can actively form connected ideas, etc.

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 Post subject: Re: Can you be "pro" whatever your race is, and not be racis
PostPosted: Mon Sep 11, 2017 6:29 am 
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From the article since I doubt anyone will read it without it being spoonfed to them:

Quote:
Trump either won, or closely contested all the traditional manufacturing states -- Ohio, Wisconsin, Indiana, Iowa and even Michigan, where union voters did not support Clinton as they had Obama and where trade was also a big issue. Trump did consistently better than Romney in all these states, even though Romney was a native of Michigan. Perhaps the most significant turnaround was in Ohio, which Obama won with barely 51% of the vote in 2012. This year Trump reversed this loss and won by over seven points.

Agricultural states, reeling from the decline of commodity prices, not surprisingly, also went for the New Yorker.

Premature Epitaphs For The White Voter

Race, as is often the case, played a major role in the election. For much of the election, commentators, particularly in the dominant Eastern media, seemed to be openly celebrating what CNN heralded as “the decline of the white voter.” The “new America,” they suggested, would be a coalition of minorities, educated workers and millennials.

To be sure, the minority share of the electorate is only going to grow -- from less than 30% today to over 40% in 2032 -- as more white Americans continue to die than be born. Just between 2012 and 2016, the Latino and Asian electorate grew 17% and 16%, respectively; the white electorate expanded barely 2%.

In Colorado the new minority math was seen, with a strong showing among Latinos, the educated suburbs around Denver and millennials.

That may be the future, but now is now. Exit polling nationwide showed Trump won two-to-one among people without a college degree, matched Clinton among college graduates, losing only those with graduate degrees, a group that has voted for the Democrats since 1988.

But there’s simply more high school graduates than those with graduate degrees. And for now there are a lot more whites than minorities. As we look into the future, these groups will fade somewhat but right now they can still determine elections. Nowhere is this clearer than in Trump’s decisive win in Florida, a state that is home to many white retirees, including from the old industrial states.

Latinos may be the one group in the “new America” that made a difference for Clinton, not only in Colorado, but also in Nevada. Republicans paid a price for Trump’s intemperate comments on immigration and about Mexico.

They also made states like Texas and North Carolina closer, and may have helped secure Clinton’s win in Virginia. In contrast, neither African-Americans or millennials seem to have turned out as heavily, both in numbers and percentage terms, as they did for President Obama. Trump appears to have made some modest gains with both groups, contrary to the conventional wisdom.

Class Warrior

Class has been a bigger factor in this election than in any election since the New Deal era. Trump’s insurgency rode largely on middle- and working-class fears about globalization, immigration and the cultural arrogance of the “progressive” cultural elite. This is something Bill Clinton understands better than his wife.

Trump owes his election to what one writer has called “the leftover people.” These may be “deplorables” to the pundits but their grievances are real – their incomes and their lifespans have been decreasing. They have noticed, as Thomas Frank has written, that the Democrats have gone “from being the party of Decatur to the party of Martha’s Vineyard.

Many of these voters were once Democrats, and feel they have been betrayed. And they include a large swath of the middle class, whose fury explains much of what happened tonight. Trump has connected better with these voters than Romney, who won those making between $50,000 and $90,000 by a narrow 52 percent margin. Early analysis of this year’s election shows Trump doing better among these kind of voters.

At the same time, however, affluent voters -- those making $100,000 and above -- seem to have tilted over to the Democrats this year. This is the first time the “rich” have gone against the GOP since the 1964 Goldwater debacle. Obama did better among the wealthy, winning eight of the 10 richest counties in 2012. In virtually all these counties, Clinton did even better.

What does this mean for America’s traditional middle class, whose numbers have been fading for a generation? Long the majority, notes Pew, they are no longer, outnumbered by the lower and upper classes combined. Yet like the Anglo population, in this election what’s left of America’s middle class has shown itself not ready to face the sunset.

Now What?

Given the unpredictable nature of Trump, it’s hard to see what he will do. Although himself a businessman, he was opposed overwhelmingly by his own class. Clinton won more support from big business and the business elite. If you had a billionaire primary, Clinton would have won by as much as 20 to 1.

Initially many of those business interests closest to both Obama and Clinton -- Wall Street, Silicon Valley, Hollywood -- will be on the outside looking in. Their advantages from tax avoidance could be lessened. Merger-mania, yet another form of asset inflation, will continue unabated, particularly in the tech and media space.

The clear challenge for (I can’t believe I am writing these words) President Trump will not be so much to punish these enemies, but to embrace those people -- largely middle class, suburban, small town and white -- who are not part of his world, but made him President. If he embraces his role as a radical reformer, he could do much good, for example with a flatter tax system, restoring federalism, seizing the advantage of the energy revolution and reviving military preparedness.

The question is whether he will, or is capable, of doing these things. A Hillary Clinton administration would have been safer, and predictable, but it would not have addressed the very things that made Americans turn to this bizarre political poseur. Now it’s up to Trump to live up to his promise to restore the country’s self-confidence, and, for the rest of us, to make sure he does it in accordance with the Constitution and basic decency.


I mean, god forbid someone running for President would actually court, I dunno, the largest voting demographic in the United States....

And you know what? Unless Democrats get their acts together I bet we see Asian and Latino voters, as their cumulative net worth increases, and their personal investment into the economy grows, shift to the Right, as it always does when people don't feel like their personal interests are being represented by whatever political party.

The Democrats would be better off getting off the race card, trans this or that, homosexual grievances, and come up with solid economic plans that are easily digestible, and make sense in the long-run.

- Doc

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