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 Post subject: When Trump supported DACA
PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2017 5:30 am 
God

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Six years later everything changes


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 Post subject: Re: When Trump supported DACA
PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2017 6:40 am 
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Ha!

Quote:
Turns out Donald Trump made a compelling, compassionate defense of Dreamers, but, sadly, it was Trump circa 2011, not the guy currently in the White House.

On Monday, CNN investigative reporter Andrew Kaczynski tweeted out two videos of Trump from 2011 that suggest he once had compassion for immigrants, both legal and undocumented.

“This isn’t conservative,” he says in the first clip. “This is compassion.”

Trump goes on to tell the “Fox & Friends” host that then-presidential candidate Michele Bachmann might talk tough about illegal immigration on a broad scale ― but she actually has compassion for those who are already here.

“You ask Michele [Bachmann] to actually, physically go across the street and tell the family of 25 years to get out of this country, she wouldn’t do it because she’s a good person,” he said.


In the next clip posted by Kaczynski, Trump makes the type of compelling, compassionate defense of DACA that Dreamers wish they could make to the president.

“You have people in this country for 20 years, they’ve done a great job, they’ve done wonderfully, they’ve gone to school, they’ve gotten good marks, they’re productive — now we’re supposed to send them out of the country?” he said. “I don’t believe in that.”


Ah, but that was then ... now it's just fake news.

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 Post subject: Re: When Trump supported DACA
PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2017 6:58 am 
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I think it is just yet another manifestation of his bloody minded determination to undo anything whatsoever that can be attributed to Barack Obama -- especially if there was anything at all admirable about it.

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 Post subject: Re: When Trump supported DACA
PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2017 10:22 am 
God
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When I was 13 years old my mother died, and I spent a lot of time with a man who was a family friend. He was a writer, and a bit of philosopher. He told me:

Love doesn't make the world go around. It's irritation.

I think about that when I think about Donald Trump, and especially his revocation of the Dreamer program. What motivates him? Is it love? Nah, it's irritation. Donald Trump has been scratching the same itch his whole life, and it will never go away, no matter how many hotels he owns, or how his policies affect millions of poor Americans, or Dreamers, or sick Americans.

One of the lessons I hope this country learns from the Trump Presidency is that it is not enough to know a man is successful. You have to understand why he is successful. Not all of the things that motivate a man to be 'successful' are necessarily good qualities.

A little addendum. This is from that famously liberal Paul Ryan:

Quote:
This is a sad day for our country. The decision to end DACA is not just wrong. It is particularly cruel to offer young people the American Dream, encourage them to come out of the shadows and trust our government, and then punish them for it ... It’s time for Congress to act to pass the bipartisan Dream Act or another legislative solution that gives Dreamers a pathway to citizenship.

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Last edited by MeDotOrg on Tue Sep 05, 2017 11:20 am, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: When Trump supported DACA
PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2017 11:16 am 
God

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At least one conservative thinks there is something seriously wrong with Drumpf, and his modern day GOP.
SEE https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/ri ... 2ea88755ca


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 Post subject: Re: When Trump supported DACA
PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2017 11:28 am 
God
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Gunnar wrote:
I think it is just yet another manifestation of his bloody minded determination to undo anything whatsoever that can be attributed to Barack Obama -- especially if there was anything at all admirable about it.


Yes, I agree! It's like the second wife removing all evidence of the first. ;-)

I know that Sessions spoke about this today but I didn't hear it. So, going out on a limb here and knowing I'm likely giving POTUS too much credit, I think there might be some slight chance that what he's doing is forcing Congress' hand to develop a new form of DACA.

Don't hold my feet to the fire on that though because, ouch.
:lol:

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 Post subject: Re: When Trump supported DACA
PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2017 11:31 am 
God
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MeDotOrg wrote:
One of the lessons I hope this country learns from the Trump Presidency is that it is not enough to know a man is successful. You have to understand why he is successful. Not all of the things that motivate a man to be 'successful' are necessarily good qualities.


I've said this repeatedly until I'm blue in the keyboard. Trump is a ____ artist, a bruiser and he's an attention getter. He'll stir the pot for the sake of stirring it. He's in it for the thrill of the hunt and the kill.

Watch him. Keep watching him. Look for where he gets his narcissistic supply and then I think you've got him.

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 Post subject: Re: When Trump supported DACA
PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2017 11:38 am 
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Kevin Graham wrote:
Six years later everything changes


He's simply putting heat on Congress you dolt. Is there nothing you won't wig out about?

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 Post subject: Re: When Trump supported DACA
PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2017 11:48 am 
God

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The Republican controlled Congress will not pass a DACA replacement.


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 Post subject: Re: When Trump supported DACA
PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2017 12:06 pm 
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Jersey Girl wrote:
So, going out on a limb here and knowing I'm likely giving POTUS too much credit, I think there might be some slight chance that what he's doing is forcing Congress' hand to develop a new form of DACA.


Why do you bother giving head-room to such very unlikely hypotheses - all of which are apparently based on the desperate hope that Trump may be motivated by something other than deep narcissism, and hatred of anyone who does not make him feel good?

Are you really so scared of facing the possibility - now almost a certainty - that the US electoral system has handed over the nuclear codes to a deeply inadequate person, with an attention span no longer than the time it takes to thumb a tweet into his phone?

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Maksutov:
That's the problem with this supernatural stuff, it doesn't really solve anything. It's a placeholder for ignorance.


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 Post subject: Re: When Trump supported DACA
PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2017 1:55 pm 
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Maybe Trump's stance is keeping pace with the deterioration of his cognitive abilities.

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 Post subject: Re: When Trump supported DACA
PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2017 2:12 pm 
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President Obama's response in full, well worth the read:

Quote:
Immigration can be a controversial topic. We all want safe, secure borders and a dynamic economy, and people of goodwill can have legitimate disagreements about how to fix our immigration system so that everybody plays by the rules.

But that’s not what the action that the White House took today is about. This is about young people who grew up in America – kids who study in our schools, young adults who are starting careers, patriots who pledge allegiance to our flag. These Dreamers are Americans in their hearts, in their minds, in every single way but one: on paper. They were brought to this country by their parents, sometimes even as infants. They may not know a country besides ours. They may not even know a language besides English. They often have no idea they’re undocumented until they apply for a job, or college, or a driver’s license.

Over the years, politicians of both parties have worked together to write legislation that would have told these young people – our young people – that if your parents brought you here as a child, if you’ve been here a certain number of years, and if you’re willing to go to college or serve in our military, then you’ll get a chance to stay and earn your citizenship. And for years while I was President, I asked Congress to send me such a bill.

That bill never came. And because it made no sense to expel talented, driven, patriotic young people from the only country they know solely because of the actions of their parents, my administration acted to lift the shadow of deportation from these young people, so that they could continue to contribute to our communities and our country. We did so based on the well-established legal principle of prosecutorial discretion, deployed by Democratic and Republican presidents alike, because our immigration enforcement agencies have limited resources, and it makes sense to focus those resources on those who come illegally to this country to do us harm. Deportations of criminals went up. Some 800,000 young people stepped forward, met rigorous requirements, and went through background checks. And America grew stronger as a result.

But today, that shadow has been cast over some of our best and brightest young people once again. To target these young people is wrong – because they have done nothing wrong. It is self-defeating – because they want to start new businesses, staff our labs, serve in our military, and otherwise contribute to the country we love. And it is cruel. What if our kid’s science teacher, or our friendly neighbor turns out to be a Dreamer? Where are we supposed to send her? To a country she doesn’t know or remember, with a language she may not even speak?

Let’s be clear: the action taken today isn’t required legally. It’s a political decision, and a moral question. Whatever concerns or complaints Americans may have about immigration in general, we shouldn’t threaten the future of this group of young people who are here through no fault of their own, who pose no threat, who are not taking away anything from the rest of us. They are that pitcher on our kid’s softball team, that first responder who helps out his community after a disaster, that cadet in ROTC who wants nothing more than to wear the uniform of the country that gave him a chance. Kicking them out won’t lower the unemployment rate, or lighten anyone’s taxes, or raise anybody’s wages.

It is precisely because this action is contrary to our spirit, and to common sense, that business leaders, faith leaders, economists, and Americans of all political stripes called on the administration not to do what it did today. And now that the White House has shifted its responsibility for these young people to Congress, it’s up to Members of Congress to protect these young people and our future. I’m heartened by those who’ve suggested that they should. And I join my voice with the majority of Americans who hope they step up and do it with a sense of moral urgency that matches the urgency these young people feel.

Ultimately, this is about basic decency. This is about whether we are a people who kick hopeful young strivers out of America, or whether we treat them the way we’d want our own kids to be treated. It’s about who we are as a people – and who we want to be.
What makes us American is not a question of what we look like, or where our names come from, or the way we pray. What makes us American is our fidelity to a set of ideals – that all of us are created equal; that all of us deserve the chance to make of our lives what we will; that all of us share an obligation to stand up, speak out, and secure our most cherished values for the next generation. That’s how America has traveled this far. That’s how, if we keep at it, we will ultimately reach that more perfect union.

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 Post subject: Re: When Trump supported DACA
PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2017 3:27 pm 
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There was a time when former Presidents would step down from office and let the next administration govern as per the will of the People by rightful election. Obama has once again proven himself incompetent on knowing what is good for the people. No class, no skill, and no maturity. Obama fails even when not holding the office, geez.

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 Post subject: Re: When Trump supported DACA
PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2017 4:17 pm 
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Chap wrote:
Jersey Girl wrote:
So, going out on a limb here and knowing I'm likely giving POTUS too much credit, I think there might be some slight chance that what he's doing is forcing Congress' hand to develop a new form of DACA.


Why do you bother giving head-room to such very unlikely hypotheses - all of which are apparently based on the desperate hope that Trump may be motivated by something other than deep narcissism, and hatred of anyone who does not make him feel good?

Are you really so scared of facing the possibility - now almost a certainty - that the US electoral system has handed over the nuclear codes to a deeply inadequate person, with an attention span no longer than the time it takes to thumb a tweet into his phone?


Are you serious? What the holy hell ____ is your problem? Do you read my Trump critical posts?

Take your pretentious snippy little ass and get off mine, Chap.

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 Post subject: Re: When Trump supported DACA
PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2017 4:41 pm 
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The CCC wrote:
The Republican controlled Congress will not pass a DACA replacement.



Well let's see how this flies, C's. Co-sponsored by Dem and Rep.

http://www.kktv.com/content/news/Colora ... 07903.html

The preceding message has been brought to you by the great state of Colorful Colorado. Where the weather is made up, the seasons don't matter and everybody's high.

:mrgreen:

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 Post subject: Re: When Trump supported DACA
PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2017 6:14 pm 
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If I were to rob a bank and put the money into a college and trust fund for my children then were finally brought to justice 10 years later, should my kids be allowed to keep the money since it was obtained through no fault of their own? If I'm sent to jail, is the government responsible for not keeping my family together? Are kids not punished all the time by the government for the sins of their parents. Will rewarding illegals by giving their kids citizenship not further encourage illegal immigration?

We either have a border or we don't.

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 Post subject: Re: When Trump supported DACA
PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2017 6:48 pm 
God
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Maxine Waters wrote:
If I were to rob a bank and put the money into a college and trust fund for my children then were finally brought to justice 10 years later, should my kids be allowed to keep the money since it was obtained through no fault of their own? If I'm sent to jail, is the government responsible for not keeping my family together? Are kids not punished all the time by the government for the sins of their parents. Will rewarding illegals by giving their kids citizenship not further encourage illegal immigration?

We either have a border or we don't.


What we're talking about isn't deportation per se. I think more to the point we're talking about exiling the children of illegals to a country foreign to them.

It's not as easy as your examples makes it out to be.

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 Post subject: Re: When Trump supported DACA
PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2017 6:55 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: When Trump supported DACA
PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2017 6:56 pm 
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Ben Ferguson seemed to agree with you when a man presented this example. He said he would explain why but I either got interrupted or didn't get to hear it. What exactly is the difference that you see?

The only difference I see is people don't believe illegal immigration is really a crime similar to robbing a bank. Hence my statement we either have a border or we don't? Why are their children in this country illegally so long they know no other country? It's because of our failure to enforce the border over the past 20 years. I'm going to disagree with Trump. Congress did it's job. It's the executive branch that has failed us in refusing to enforce the law over the past 30 years.

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This liberal would be about socializing … uh, umm. … Would be about, basically, taking over, and the government running all of your companies.


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 Post subject: Re: When Trump supported DACA
PostPosted: Wed Sep 06, 2017 8:34 am 
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subgenius wrote:
There was a time when former Presidents would step down from office and let the next administration govern as per the will of the People by rightful election. Obama has once again proven himself incompetent on knowing what is good for the people. No class, no skill, and no maturity. Obama fails even when not holding the office, geez.

Donald J. Trump is an idiot compared to Barack Obama, and Obama, though not perfect, is a paragon of virtue compared to Trump. He clearly knows far more than about the government and our constitution than Trump. Trump is willfully ignorant about history, science and how our government is supposed to work, makes no apparent effort to learn, and couldn't care less about what is really good for the people. He has demonstrated that time and again and that all he really cares about is himself.

It is no hyperbole say that he is one of if not the most incompetent and openly dishonest and corrupt people who have been elected to the office of POTUS. His main claim to fame is that he is very likely the most successful fraud and conman in history, and even a growing number of conservatives and Republicans are beginning to realize that. A few of them are apparently even counting on that and trying to get in on the con! All this is so obviously true that you have to either be blind, or willfully ignorant and/or corrupt yourself to not see it!

I will grant, however, that there is a small possibility that, whether by design or not, Trump's abandonment of DACA may motivate congress to finally craft legislation for meaningful, just and much needed reform of our immigration policies that will prevent the humanitarian tragedy and injustice that Obama's executive order on DACA was intended to avert.

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― Harlan Ellison


Last edited by Gunnar on Wed Sep 06, 2017 4:43 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: When Trump supported DACA
PostPosted: Wed Sep 06, 2017 8:46 am 
God
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Jersey Girl wrote:


Take your pretentious snippy little ass and get off mine, Chap.


Sorry to break this to you, but this is an open discussion board, not your private club. Anything you post may be commented on by anybody, and nobody is privileged in that regard.

If the consequences of that state of affairs make you come over with an unbearable fit of the vapours, why don't you put me on ignore? It's all the same to me.

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Maksutov:
That's the problem with this supernatural stuff, it doesn't really solve anything. It's a placeholder for ignorance.


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