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 Post subject: Re: The Pardon
PostPosted: Mon Aug 28, 2017 6:25 pm 
God

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I'm ranting and raving about privilege? Uhm, no. You're the only one known to tear off unhinged rants on that subject. Case in point.

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 Post subject: Re: The Pardon
PostPosted: Mon Aug 28, 2017 7:43 pm 
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Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:
Kevin Graham googles, too. Don't let anyone fool you. He's just a dick ass racist piece of White Flight filth. He got as far away from Black people he could and moved right into the heart of Republicanland.

Are you inferring all that merely because he lives in a nice house?

If so, is there anything wrong with living in as nice of a house as you can afford?

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 Post subject: Re: The Pardon
PostPosted: Mon Aug 28, 2017 7:52 pm 
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Dr. Shades wrote:
Are you inferring all that merely because he lives in a nice house?

If so, is there anything wrong with living in as nice of a house as you can afford?


No and no.

- Doc

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 Post subject: Re: The Pardon
PostPosted: Tue Aug 29, 2017 6:32 am 
God

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If I wanted to get as far away from black people as I could, why the hell am I living in metro Atlanta and not Utah?

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 Post subject: Re: The Pardon
PostPosted: Tue Aug 29, 2017 7:13 am 
God
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Kevin Graham wrote:
If I wanted to get as far away from black people as I could, why the hell am I living in metro Atlanta and not Utah?

Um, you live way outside of North Atlanta - which is the destination of the white flight for Fulton/Cobb/Dekalb. Anyone who has ever spent time in Atlanta knows that south of 20 is where Atlanta keeps its "black people".
And i appreciate the idiocy of claiming that living in the outskirts of metro Atlanta proves that one is not racist....because rural Georgia is known for having Oprah visit Forsyth County in 1987 was just for the boiled peanuts.

as for wht you live in Atlanta and not Utah? most likely because you're a coward and afraid to live that far away from your mother...though she might appreciate the distance from your immature fascist preaching day in and day out.

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 Post subject: Re: The Pardon
PostPosted: Tue Aug 29, 2017 7:33 am 
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Hey d***a**, he said I moved as far away from black people as possible. I'm literally ten minutes from Fulton county. I'm 20 minutes from downtown Atlanta where you think the city is "keeping" all the black people. Roughly 40% of the people in my neighborhood are minorities. Like I said, I could have easily moved to Utah where my wife wants to be, if being around white people were so important. It must be the whitest state in the union.

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 Post subject: Re: The Pardon
PostPosted: Tue Aug 29, 2017 7:38 am 
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The White Flight dog whistling racist keeps doing the imnotaracist jig. Sure, buddy. We believe ya. He may have read what I wrote, but completely missed it's meaning. Likely, this was intentional on his part. It is difficult to be challenged and to know, deep down, that you are wrong.

Pride comes before the fall. And we stand at the fatal precipice with a choice. Do we go over the edge blindly? Or do we do the hard thing, avert course and heal the old wounds? I think he'll press on the gas and drive his gas guzzling Escalade over the edge.

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 Post subject: Re: The Pardon
PostPosted: Tue Aug 29, 2017 7:52 am 
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LOL. You think we drive an Escalade? We drive two Korean pieces of ____.

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 Post subject: Re: The Pardon
PostPosted: Tue Aug 29, 2017 9:39 am 
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My wife drives our one car. A black Ford Fusion. :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: The Pardon
PostPosted: Tue Aug 29, 2017 11:36 am 
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subgenius wrote:
you moron, one certainly can as i provided with the facts above (contrast with the ramblings that you have posted).

President Trump can't pardon someone from State prosecution (only the Governor can do that)...and receiving a pardon does not mean you have admitted anything....and more so a pardon can actually expressly state a determination of innocence....and upon execution of a pardon you are actually considered legally innocent of whatever crime you admitted to or were convicted of.

Get back on the porch old man


Stupid Troll in 1915 the US Supreme Court said that in accepting a Pardon you are admitting guilt.
SEE https://scholar.google.com/scholar_case ... 7882105076

Go "F" yourself.


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 Post subject: Re: The Pardon
PostPosted: Tue Aug 29, 2017 1:37 pm 
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The CCC wrote:
subgenius wrote:
you moron, one certainly can as i provided with the facts above (contrast with the ramblings that you have posted).

President Trump can't pardon someone from State prosecution (only the Governor can do that)...and receiving a pardon does not mean you have admitted anything....and more so a pardon can actually expressly state a determination of innocence....and upon execution of a pardon you are actually considered legally innocent of whatever crime you admitted to or were convicted of.

Get back on the porch old man

Stupid Troll in 1915 the US Supreme Court said that in accepting a Pardon you are admitting guilt.
SEE https://scholar.google.com/scholar_case ... 7882105076

Go "F" yourself.

Good lord you are truly stupid - so stupid you can't even google simple legal terms and can't even read simple SCOTUS decisions (even the ones that happened after you were born, ya ignorant geezer)

So, if your alzheimer's ridden skull rads up thread at the ignorant claims you have made, you will quickly learn (if you still can) that a pardon does not mean what you think it means...for example, you can still plead the fifth, you can still get prosecuted at the State level, and in some cases your arrest/conviction can even be striken from records. But it never means any of the stupid stuff you are babbling about.

Your own citation notes that a pardon can be from "confession".....wait for it......OR...imputation - and to idiots like you, the word "or" means that confession is not a sole requirement or condition. The other big grammatical hint in the SCOTUS decision is the use of a semi-colon, which separates independent clauses...meaning that imputation is not synonymous with confession. So, only an idiot would grammatically consider this quote from the SCOTUS decision as being some sort of redundancy - "The latter carries an imputation of guilt; acceptance a confession of it" - these are 2 different clauses...the imputation of guilt is when someone is found guilty, like by trial - even though they plead not-guilty - whereas the latter could occur without a trial...in the law the fact of guilt can be established without ever confessing, and the law won't consider that the same as "confessing"....can you see it now pops?

One can certainly receive a pardon if one was simply found guilty without ever confessing to anything, in fact you can deny your guilt before and after receiving a pardon....all you have to be is "found guilty".....see the difference you old piece of babbling hateful trash? So, the reality is that a pardon is not the same a confessing, it can be, but it is really just the same a "being guilty" and that guilt was established either by imputation or by confession.

You would have to get smarter to reach stupid troll status...for now you're just a silly old man on the internet

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 Post subject: Re: The Pardon
PostPosted: Tue Aug 29, 2017 1:42 pm 
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Kevin Graham wrote:
LOL. You think we drive an Escalade? We drive two Korean pieces of ____.

I was just going for imagery, man. I drive a Prius because I'm smug-er than anyone here.

- doc

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 Post subject: Re: The Pardon
PostPosted: Tue Aug 29, 2017 1:48 pm 
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Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:

I was just going for imagery, man. I drive a Prius because I'm smug-er than anyone here.


Actually, I bike to work so that I can look down on the car driving plebs! :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: The Pardon
PostPosted: Tue Aug 29, 2017 1:56 pm 
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Kevin Graham wrote:
Hey d***a**, he said I moved as far away from black people as possible. I'm literally ten minutes from Fulton county. I'm 20 minutes from downtown Atlanta where you think the city is "keeping" all the black people. Roughly 40% of the people in my neighborhood are minorities. Like I said, I could have easily moved to Utah where my wife wants to be, if being around white people were so important. It must be the whitest state in the union.

you are still full of it...no way you are 20 minutes from downtown...last i recall you were out in Cartersville? (dats 40+ miles from downtown btw) - heck you can't even get from Midtown to downtown on 20 minutes, let alone get there in 20 minutes from places like Roswell, Alpharetta, or even Kennesaw...and you expect anyone to believe...oh wait...you're "rich and white", obviously got that helicopter.

Poor people aren't minorities...and your 40% aren't "blacks" they are most likely Hispanic...blacks are the topic at hand, so don't change the demographic for your convenience (though you think all non-whites are the same...that is, non-white)....and big deal that your maid lives in your house, you're still racist....and yes, Cartersville is only about 29% african american...but we all know why you exaggerate....nevertheless, the increase in blacks out your way is only because of the minority-transfer policy in metro atlanta, and the Canes gotta have a competitive football team, amiright?

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 Post subject: Re: The Pardon
PostPosted: Tue Aug 29, 2017 2:06 pm 
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Xenophon wrote:
Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:
I was just going for imagery, man. I drive a Prius because I'm smug-er than anyone here.

Actually, I bike to work so that I can look down on the car driving plebs! :lol:

yeah, that is a solid position

http://cdn.grindtv.com/uploads/2015/02/ ... 69i1k1.gif

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 Post subject: Re: The Pardon
PostPosted: Tue Aug 29, 2017 2:08 pm 
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EAllusion wrote:
Best case scenario is it is treated as a one off ugly moment never to be repeated. Sub has not been issued his talking points yet, but blah blah Mark Rich will probably be included. This is so much worse, but you hope it gets treated like that.

Honestly, the whole idea of a "pardon" has always seemed odd to me. Isn't a "pardon" always a breach of judicial process? It's a special power given to the President to say "Even though you were convicted of a crime, I am undoing that conviction just by saying so."

From a standpoint of justice, almost any Pardon could be considered an impeachable offense.

Arpaio was being sent to jail for not following a judge's order, not for all the other stuff he did to the inmates under his care. He had already lost his job (by losing an election). He is 85.

So an unemployed, powerless 85-year-old man won't spend 6-months in jail because of the Pardon. Presidents have been impeached for stupider stuff than that, but as even the New York Times points out, is was almost certainly "legal."

Quote:
But while the move may have been unusual, there is nothing in the text of the Constitution’s pardons clause to suggest that he exceeded his authority.

As in so many other ways, this just shows that Trump has been given an office with powers and responsibilities he doesn't understand (or, apparently, want to understand.) He probably just knows of Arpaio from what he's heard on talk radio or Fox News, and someone told him that he had the magic power to get him out of jail for free. That continues to be disappointing and concerning, but probably not impeachable.

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 Post subject: Re: The Pardon
PostPosted: Tue Aug 29, 2017 4:17 pm 
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Impeachment is a process intended for abuse of political office Cinepro. "High crimes and misdemeanors" is an archaic phrase that means just that. This can and was expected to include things are legal. Impeachment was built-in as a fail-safe against an official of the executive or judiciary doing lawful things that abuse their authority. I can't recall off the top of my head if it was in Federalist paper or some of his ancillary commentary, but I remember James Madison specifically citing a President using his legal powers to protect the wrong-doing of associates being a primary reason why impeachment exists.

The pardon power is meant to be an executive check on the judiciary to reverse miscarriages of justice. The mere exercise of it implies that people within the government are bound to disagree about whether criminal conviction and/or sentence was appropriate to the circumstances. The issue here isn't merely that Trump contravened a federal court order. It's that he did so to shield someone who ignored court orders in order to violate basic Constitutional rights in an egregious manner. That's sufficient to be the kind of abuse of authority that impeachment reasonably covers. If it doesn't, that's simply a backdoor to effectively nullifying the Bill of Rights. It's a fundamental rule of law issue. It's also why other pardons that we may simply find disagreeable aren't in of themselves a similar example.

It's true that Arpaio didn't go down for even a fraction of the awful things that he could and should have. But what he did go down for was not something that a President using his powers within the scope of just intent would pardon.


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 Post subject: Re: The Pardon
PostPosted: Tue Aug 29, 2017 4:19 pm 
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The President can compel assassins to kill people within the jurisdiction of Washington D.C. and pardon them for it. That's legal. The fact that it is legal doesn't mean it isn't subject to impeachment. That's what literally what impeachment is for.


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 Post subject: Re: The Pardon
PostPosted: Tue Aug 29, 2017 4:34 pm 
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Quote:
"High crimes and misdemeanors" is an archaic phrase that means just that.

I probably should explain this more. "High" in that phrase doesn't mean "serious." It refers to the stature of office. The phrasing refers to misconduct that is specifically related to the responsibilities of being an official.

Wiki has a good explanation of this:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_crim ... sdemeanors

Quote:
The charge of high crimes and misdemeanors covers allegations of misconduct peculiar to officials, such as perjury of oath, abuse of authority, bribery, intimidation, misuse of assets, failure to supervise, dereliction of duty, unbecoming conduct, and refusal to obey a lawful order. Offenses by officials also include ordinary crimes, but perhaps with different standards of proof and punishment than for nonofficials, on the grounds that more is expected of officials by their oaths of office.

...

"High" in the legal and common parlance of the seventeenth and eighteenth centuries of "high crimes" signifies activity by or against those who have special duties acquired by taking an oath of office that are not shared with common persons. A high crime is one that can only be done by someone in a unique position of authority, which is political in character, who does things to circumvent justice. The phrase "high crimes and misdemeanors" when used together was a common phrase at the time the U.S. Constitution was written and did not mean any stringent or difficult criteria for determining guilt. It meant the opposite. The phrase was historically used to cover a very broad range of crimes.


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 Post subject: Re: The Pardon
PostPosted: Tue Aug 29, 2017 4:44 pm 
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What Joe Arpaio was doing was illegally detaining people because they looked like they were of Latino descent. It was a violation of the 4th amendment. A federal court ordered him to stop doing that and he flagrantly ignored that order and continued. Eventually he was found in contempt and received a prison sentence for it. It took a lot for it to get to that point.

Trump then pardoned him for this. The signal that it sends is that police can violate people's Constitutional rights, in this case to carry out a racist agenda, with total impunity. It nullifies 4th amendment protections. Congress is within their Constitutional authority to impeach and remove him over this, and that would be a just outcome. This is especially so when you consider all the other impeachable actions that can be added to the list. (Obstruction of justice, emoluments...)


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 Post subject: Re: The Pardon
PostPosted: Tue Aug 29, 2017 7:11 pm 
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Would you consider Sherriff Joe Arpaio a minority EAllusion?

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