When and why were those Confederate statues erected?

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_Chap
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Re: When and why were those Confederate statues erected?

Post by _Chap »

subgenius wrote:posting idiotic graphs


Image

I wonder what it is that is idiotic about this graph? It seems to sum up rather nicely the correlation between 20th C bursts of white backlash against civil rights for black people, and the erection of monuments to the Confederacy.

subgenius wrote: ... as a means to...well, who knows why?)


Erm, the purpose was to make the point:

No one should think that these statues were meant to be somber postbellum reminders of a brutal war. They were built much later, and most of them were explicitly created to accompany organized and violent efforts to subdue blacks and maintain white supremacy in the South. I wouldn’t be surprised if even a lot of Southerners don’t really understand this, but they should learn. There’s a reason blacks consider these statues to be symbols of bigotry and terror. It’s because they are.


Since that was made quite explicit, why all the pretended puzzlement?
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_EAllusion
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Re: When and why were those Confederate states erected?

Post by _EAllusion »

Maxine Waters wrote:I just told you. My four times great grandfather was shot in the leg while fighting in the Civil War and walked with a severe limp the rest of his life. He lost everything due to being on the losing side when the war was over. And yet he worked in spite of his disability and saved enough to purchase our family farm in what was Virginia that we still own today. He was forced to postpone marriage and children until he was 35. It's a history of ability, misfortune, family values, and perseverance. In spite of all this, this man managed to leave a significant inheritance to his descendants.

In your eyes or perhaps Beastie, he's just a racist piece of crap. I see him a little differently.


Every war has people on both sides who weren't there for the ideological commitment behind the war or to be violent monsters. There were soldiers of fascist Germany and Japan who were compelled to fight, joined simply out of patriotism for their local area, needed a job, or who just innocently misunderstood the stakes. I'm sure there were plenty who settled down after the war and had families that loved them. This doesn't mean we build statues to honor the leaders of Nazi Germany or the Fascist Japan.

Statues of confederate leaders largely were erected as monuments to white supremacy and the cause of the Confederacy as a way of culturally symbolizing opposition to black civil rights. This is not honorable nor something we should continue to approve of.

General Lee was not a good person and there is no reason to have honorific memorials of him.
_Doctor CamNC4Me
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Re: When and why were those Confederate states erected?

Post by _Doctor CamNC4Me »

EAllusion wrote:Statues of confederate leaders largely were erected as monuments to white supremacy and the cause of the Confederacy as a way of culturally symbolizing opposition to black civil rights. This is not honorable nor something we should continue to approve of.

General Lee was not a good person and there is no reason to have honorific memorials of him.


I wonder why Mormons are so tolerant of the Confederacy and Confederate leaders being memorialized...

- Doc
In the face of madness, rationality has no power - Xiao Wang, US historiographer, 2287 AD.

Every record...falsified, every book rewritten...every statue...has been renamed or torn down, every date...altered...the process is continuing...minute by minute. History has stopped. Nothing exists except an endless present in which the Ideology is always right.
_Maxine Waters
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Re: When and why were those Confederate states erected?

Post by _Maxine Waters »

I wonder why Mormons are so tolerant of the Confederacy and Confederate leaders being memorialized...


Because Mormonism is not political. They're not even political enough to allow anti abortion statements to be read in sacrament meeting. They don't take much of a stand on illegal immigration. The only political thing I can think of them taking a strong political stance on is homosexual marriage.

It's kind of odd that The CCC and I are now fellow Mormons again. Nobody in my ward objected to my talk where I expressed my gratitude and pride in my heritage and the values my ancestors upheld. I'm sure I'll get called on to speak yet again. No bishop asks if I believe all races are equal in IQ or athletic ability. The only question Mormonism asks me is, "Do you love all of God's children? Do you believe they are all equal in rights and responsibilities?" Nothing about that means I have to be against countries having borders or limiting immigration.
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_Doctor CamNC4Me
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Re: When and why were those Confederate statues erected?

Post by _Doctor CamNC4Me »

Ajax.

Literally viewtopic.php?f=1&t=46827

C'mon.

- Doc
In the face of madness, rationality has no power - Xiao Wang, US historiographer, 2287 AD.

Every record...falsified, every book rewritten...every statue...has been renamed or torn down, every date...altered...the process is continuing...minute by minute. History has stopped. Nothing exists except an endless present in which the Ideology is always right.
_The CCC
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Re: When and why were those Confederate statues erected?

Post by _The CCC »

Chap wrote:Nobody.

The point, rather, is that there are still people around who would have preferred the pro slave-owning Confederacy to have won, rather than the abolitionist United States, precisely because they are not happy with black people having gained the rights that abolition gave them.

And over the last century, some of those people erected many of the Confederate statues now being removed, with the hope that they would serve as foci for the movement to resist black civil rights.
[/quote]

Agreed. It isn't like we're ripping up history, but putting the focus back where it should have been all along. On the evilness of slavery and the southern sedition. I can see the point of having a few monuments in museums so we never forget the basic facts of the Civil War and its cause.
_Doctor CamNC4Me
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Re: When and why were those Confederate statues erected?

Post by _Doctor CamNC4Me »

Some activists put up a 'Madre Luz' statue which was knocked down. I think if you're going to take a statue down you should at least have a plan to replace it with something beautiful. That paper mache monstrosity is ridiculously ugly.

A profile on the artist behind the turd statue:

http://www.baltimoresun.com/features/ba ... story.html

I think this is his homepage or whatever:

http://cargocollective.com/pablomachioli

And a positive coming out of googling the artist is this nice collection of murals from random artists:

http://gaiastreetart.com/Murals-and-Commissions

- Doc
In the face of madness, rationality has no power - Xiao Wang, US historiographer, 2287 AD.

Every record...falsified, every book rewritten...every statue...has been renamed or torn down, every date...altered...the process is continuing...minute by minute. History has stopped. Nothing exists except an endless present in which the Ideology is always right.
_moksha
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Re: When and why were those Confederate states erected?

Post by _moksha »

Maxine Waters wrote:
I wonder why Mormons are so tolerant of the Confederacy and Confederate leaders being memorialized...


Because Mormonism is not political. They're not even political enough to allow anti abortion statements to be read in sacrament meeting. They don't take much of a stand on illegal immigration. The only political thing I can think of them taking a strong political stance on is homosexual marriage.

Perhaps you might suggest hosting side by side statues of Robert E. Lee and John D. Lee as a way of bolstering your dual heritage.
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_The CCC
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Re: When and why were those Confederate statues erected?

Post by _The CCC »

Definitely not. Both deserved a worse fate than they got. I have no desire for either one to have any type of honor let alone a statue.
_Jersey Girl
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Re: When and why were those Confederate statues erected?

Post by _Jersey Girl »

The CCC wrote: I can see the point of having a few monuments in museums so we never forget the basic facts of the Civil War and its cause.


Me too, and for that exact reason. We shouldn't act like it never happened. We should acknowledge the fact that it did, that people erected statues to memorialize it and keep some tangible concrete evidence around to show that these things are true.
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